Skylake or Broadwell? (Spent 250 on z97 platform already)

[TechyGeek]

Folks,

I don't mind writing off z97 mobo and $50 celeron holdover I got in the hopes of getting decent ~5.0GHZ broadwell cpu this year.

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place right now, as I don't know if
Skylake will support DDR3. I have 2400mhz Trident x sticks (8gb x 4), and would like to reuse them if possible.

So my point is as follows: I need a cpu/gpu that is capable of driving my un78hu9000 in the next 3-5 months, and I don't know what to do at this point.

System specs:
$50 celeron - I don't care what model
$200 asus z97 pro(wifi)
$350 - 32GB DDR3 2400mhz trident x (4x8gb)
$250 - Extreme 2 512 gb SSD

Would like:

~5 ghz cpu (4+ cores) No idea what to do here

~r9 390x or 980 ti (or whatever is capable of driving 4k tv) Some idea what to do here

Thanks!

 

[Arachnotronic]

Hi TechyGeek,

Leaks suggest that Skylake will support DDR3L (for notebooks most likely) and DDR4, so I don't think your current memory which I think is standard DDR3 will work.

Honestly, just grab an i7-4790K and a good aftermarket cooler, and overclock that sucker. Probably not going to get to 5GHz without really exotic cooling, but you can get close.

 

[Yuriman]

I doubt you'll see 5GHz on any recent Intel CPU without extreme cooling. With Haswell, voltage needs rise rapidly past around 4.4ghz (stock clocks for 4790K) for most chips. My guess is that Broadwell will probably not overclock as well as Haswell, even.

I'd probably pick up a 4790K and just leave it at stock.

 

[R0H1T]

Folks,

I don't mind writing off z97 mobo and $50 celeron holdover I got in the hopes of getting decent ~5.0GHZ broadwell cpu this year.

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place right now, as I don't know if
Skylake will support DDR3. I have 2400mhz Trident x sticks (8gb x 4), and would like to reuse them if possible.

So my point is as follows: I need a cpu/gpu that is capable of driving my un78hu9000 in the next 3-5 months, and I don't know what to do at this point.

System specs:
$50 celeron - I don't care what model
$200 asus z97 pro(wifi)
$350 - 32GB DDR3 2400mhz trident x (4x8gb)
$250 - Extreme 2 512 gb SSD

Would like:

~5 ghz cpu (4+ cores) No idea what to do here

~r9 390x or 980 ti (or whatever is capable of driving 4k tv) Some idea what to do here

Thanks!

Save whatever (little) you can to get a beefier GPU, with DX12 the importance of the GPU is only going to increase in the not so distant future.
Also should you choose to go with an unlocked Broadwell (i5/i7) DDR3L isn't as uncommon or expensive as people usually think it is ~
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductList.aspx?Submit=Property&N=100007611%20600000285%20600521525%20600000279%20600000253&IsNodeId=1&page=1&bop=And&Order=PRICE&PageSize=90

One more thing, unless you need wifi on mobo there are much better options out there at a much lower price.

 

[TechyGeek]

I need bluetooth and wifi on it - bluetooth more than wifi though.

If Skylake isn't coming in next 3-5 months I'll snag the fastest chip for z97. Will watercooling get me to 4.8 if I put some work into OC?

What are your recommendations for GPU then?

 

[Insert_Nickname]

I don't mind writing off z97 mobo and $50 celeron holdover I got in the hopes of getting decent ~5.0GHZ broadwell cpu this year.

You should take this as a learning experience.

Buy what performance you need when you need it. Don't rely on upgrading, there is always something better around the corner. For what you've spent on CPU plus mainboard, you could have gotten a decent i3, even i5, plus a cheap H81/B85 mainboard to tie you over until Skylake (or even the refresh/Cannonlake). Instead of artificially crippling your system with a Celeron, hoping for some hyper-OC capable Broadwell that may never materialize (and doesn't from what I'm hearing)...

Please don't take this the wrong way, its written with the very best of intentions.

 

[Smoblikat]

If for some reason you need your CPU-z to read 5000.00mhz you can just grab a P67 or Z68 board and a 2500K. I used to bench mine on a hyper 212 at 5.4ghz.

 

[R0H1T]

I need bluetooth and wifi on it - bluetooth more than wifi though.

If Skylake isn't coming in next 3-5 months I'll snag the fastest chip for z97. Will watercooling get me to 4.8 if I put some work into OC?

What are your recommendations for GPU then?

I doubt that, Devil's Canyon is already a poor overclocker (as compared to 4770K) & is kinda like the FX 9570/9590 i.e. stretched to the hilt.

I think you should wait for the Core i5-5675C and i7-5775C to launch & then decide whether to go with Broadwell or Haswell, in case you go with the former the DDR3L RAM (that I listed) can be reused if you decide to get an unlocked Skylake next year.

As for GPU get the 390x 8GB version cause anything less than 6GB (for 4K) is just too little IMO & seems like 980Ti will launch with 6GB, the 390x will have an 8GB model probably some time after the initial launch.

 

[TechyGeek]

You should take this as a learning experience.

Buy what performance you need when you need it. Don't rely on upgrading, there is always something better around the corner. For what you've spent on CPU plus mainboard, you could have gotten a decent i3, even i5, plus a cheap H81/B85 mainboard to tie you over until Skylake (or even the refresh/Cannonlake). Instead of artificially crippling your system with a Celeron, hoping for some hyper-OC capable Broadwell that may never materialize (and doesn't from what I'm hearing)...

Please don't take this the wrong way, its written with the very best of intentions.

It's a good learning experience thank you for that. I did that for 2008 build that lasted me for 6.5 years. But that one worked out great! Buying $50 single core in dec. 2007 until Q9450 came out a few months later.

I doubt that, Devil's Canyon is already a poor overclocker (as compared to 4770K) & is kinda like the FX 9570/9590 i.e. stretched to the hilt.

I think you should wait for the Core i5-5675C and i7-5775C to launch & then decide whether to go with Broadwell or Haswell, in case you go with the former the DDR3L RAM (that I listed) can be reused if you decide to get an unlocked Skylake next year.

As for GPU get the 390x 8GB version cause anything less than 6GB (for 4K) is just too little IMO & seems like 980Ti will launch with 6GB, the 390x will have an 8GB model probably some time after the initial launch.

I can't speculate for broadwell k but DC - I see average overclock at 4.6 thats 600 mhz or 15%. Which is bad but not terrible. With watercooling, is it possible to pull 4.8 which will make me satisfied for the next 5 years?

 

[Yuriman]

It's a good learning experience thank you for that. I did that for 2008 build that lasted me for 6.5 years. But that one worked out great! Buying $50 single core in dec. 2007 until Q9450 came out a few months later.



I can't speculate for broadwell k but DC - I see average overclock at 4.6 thats 600 mhz or 15%. Which is bad but not terrible. With watercooling, is it possible to pull 4.8 which will make me satisfied for the next 5 years?

4790K turbos to 4.4ghz at stock on one core, and 4.2ghz with all 4. Most boards have an option to turbo all cores to max turbo, making 4.6ghz around 4.5%.

YMMV, but in the case of my CPU, 4.4ghz requires around 1.2v, 4.6ghz, around 1.3v, and 4.8ghz, around 1.45v. Most don't recommend going beyond 1.3v for day to day use as degradation increases rapidly beyond that point. With an excellent custom-watercooling loop mounted bare-die, my i5 was near 100c loaded at 4.8ghz, and Haswell runs hotter than Ivy Bridge. You'll not likely be running Prime95 or IBT 24/7 so temps won't be as much an issue, but it seems like a lot of money and effort for very little return, when you can get 4.4ghz with the stock cooler on a cheap H- or B- chipset.

 

[R0H1T]

I can't speculate for broadwell k but DC - I see average overclock at 4.6 thats 600 mhz or 15%. Which is bad but not terrible. With watercooling, is it possible to pull 4.8 which will make me satisfied for the next 5 years?

I'm not sure that's the case except when employing high end (water/air) cooling. Anyway if the past (SNB -> IVB) is any indication I expect unlocked Broadwell, when overclocked, to be within striking distance of Devil's Canyon & with much better thermals. This is why I said wait for unlocked Broadwell to appear before making a decision, WC will also get you closer to your performance target (I'm assuming it's not merely a number like 4.8GHz) on Broadwell with much less power consumed (& heat) than Haswell.

My first advice would be for you to return the Celeron & the ASUS mobo as well, you can get BT + wifi at better prices from ASROCK, MSI, Gigabyte et al.

 

[Insert_Nickname]

It's a good learning experience thank you for that. I did that for 2008 build that lasted me for 6.5 years. But that one worked out great! Buying $50 single core in dec. 2007 until Q9450 came out a few months later.

Ah, those were indeed the days. I've salvaged many a (low-end) C2D system with a cheap C2Q upgrade.

4790K turbos to 4.4ghz at stock on one core, and 4.2ghz with all 4. Most boards have an option to turbo all cores to max turbo, making 4.6ghz around 4.5%.

YMMV, but in the case of my CPU, 4.4ghz requires around 1.2v, 4.6ghz, around 1.3v, and 4.8ghz, around 1.45v. Most don't recommend going beyond 1.3v for day to day use as degradation increases rapidly beyond that point. With an excellent custom-watercooling loop mounted bare-die, my i5 was near 100c loaded at 4.8ghz, and Haswell runs hotter than Ivy Bridge. You'll not likely be running Prime95 or IBT 24/7 so temps won't be as much an issue, but it seems like a lot of money and effort for very little return, when you can get 4.4ghz with the stock cooler on a cheap H- or B- chipset.

Pretty much my opinion too. DC is already freakishly fast at stock.

This is why I said wait for unlocked Broadwell to appear before making a decision, WC will also get you closer to your performance target (I'm assuming it's not merely a number like 4.8GHz) on Broadwell with much less power consumed (& heat) than Haswell.

Quite frankly all this secrecy regarding Broadwell/Skylake/14nm-on-desktop is getting annoying. I'm not saying Intel is hiding anything, but a little more openness, like in the past, would be welcome...

 

[jpiniero]

Skylake's DDR3L is actually using the UniDIMM form factor. I think the DDR3L support is mainly for OEMs who don't want to spend the extra money on DDR4.

 

[escrow4]

My 5930K can't even hit 4.0Ghz @ 1.20v; you won't be overclocking Haswell far without a lot of volts and decent cooling.

 

[DrMrLordX]

WRT 4790k vs 5775C (aka "Broadwell K"), bear in mind that the 5775C has a base clock of 3.3 ghz. If you are planning to shoot the moon and get 4.8 ghz or higher, you're planning a pretty big overclock. Don't get me wrong, it might work out okay for you, but we're in uncharted territory since the 5675C and 5775C will be the first socketed 14nm desktop CPUs from Intel. Or anybody, really.

That being said, the big L4 cache on the 5775C may be all the incentive you need to look in that direction. You won't even be able to get that from Skylake until . . . whenever Skylake Iris Pro debuts. Late 2016?

Regardless of what you get, I hope you're ready to get down n' dirty with a delid, since there ain't no solder under the IHS of Devil's Canyon, and it's probably gonna be the same thing for the 5775C and Skylake. That's gonna be mandatory for any kind of elite, top 1% OC.

 

[TechyGeek]

Have you all heard of siliconlottery website?

I'm not implying to buy 5.0 ghz chip but 4.8 is reasonable.

 

[HexiumVII]

I'd wait for skylake to see how that is. I bought a Haswell to upgrade either my Sandy (home) or Ivy (work) but just didn't bother and just built it for a buddy. Bought a Devil's canyon, but did the same, it wasn't just that big of a difference. Hopefully Skylake will bring some interesting things, USB 3.1 is really nice, and maybe the Iris will have HDMI 2.0/DP 1.4 to power 4k and up.

 

[escrow4]

Skylake may have 3.1, but how many of your devices are ready? New Skylake build, new 3.1 devices etc.

 

[mikk]

There is no USB 3.1 in Sunrise Point for Skylake. It all comes from external chips if OEMs want USB 3.1 on their boards.

 

[Idontcare]

I don't mind writing off z97 mobo and $50 celeron holdover I got in the hopes of getting decent ~5.0GHZ broadwell cpu this year.

5GHz broadwell is probably impossible unless you fancy yourself some LN2 cooling.

Set your sights on 4.4GHz "on air", be happy if you get any more than that. If that isn't enough for you then consider something of the 22nm vintage, or 32nm vintage if 5GHz is really on your "must have" list.

So my point is as follows: I need a cpu/gpu that is capable of driving my un78hu9000 in the next 3-5 months, and I don't know what to do at this point.

Am probably showing my age here, embarrassingly so, but I have no idea what an "un78hu9000" is. Is this some new program or fancy monitor?

Only reason my ignorance matters here is because the answer to your question (Skylake or Broadwell) is best answered by knowing what you need your CPU to accomplish for you. And "un78hu9000" doesn't register with me

Would like:

~5 ghz cpu (4+ cores) No idea what to do here

~r9 390x or 980 ti (or whatever is capable of driving 4k tv) Some idea what to do here

Thanks!

Driving a 4k TV for mere playback of existing content is one thing, rendering games in real-time is an entirely different computational effort.

So are you needing this to play games on a 4K screen (30fps or 60fps? big difference there in GPU requirements) or a 4K monitor (60Hz?)?

 

[ClockHound]

IDC, as a 'vintage' user myself, let me put this in old skool terms you're familiar with: It's a big ass TV! The UN78HU9000 is a 78inch 4K Sammy! (No, it's not the foldable 3D model, so don't even think about it. ;-)

Yeah, it needs some serious big ass 4K GPU grunt.

Still, when he mentioned the 5Ghz requirement, my eyes teared over for a moment. Gas-guzzling V8s and 32nm overclocking magic! Those were the days! :biggrin:

I had a dream the other night - it was a late fall Skylake itx build that ran at 5.2Ghz. On air. Then I woke up and read about the awesome unlocked Broadwell-K with an even more powerful iGPU (this time Intel really means business) and lower clocked CPU. The new form of anticipation of Intel consumer desktop releases - an iGPU that can finally run 4K games at a stunning 12fps. Or so.

 

[cytg111]

Folks,

I don't mind writing off z97 mobo and $50 celeron holdover I got in the hopes of getting decent ~5.0GHZ broadwell cpu this year.

I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place right now, as I don't know if
Skylake will support DDR3. I have 2400mhz Trident x sticks (8gb x 4), and would like to reuse them if possible.

So my point is as follows: I need a cpu/gpu that is capable of driving my un78hu9000 in the next 3-5 months, and I don't know what to do at this point.

System specs:
$50 celeron - I don't care what model
$200 asus z97 pro(wifi)
$350 - 32GB DDR3 2400mhz trident x (4x8gb)
$250 - Extreme 2 512 gb SSD

Would like:

~5 ghz cpu (4+ cores) No idea what to do here

~r9 390x or 980 ti (or whatever is capable of driving 4k tv) Some idea what to do here

Thanks!

You just need the GPU grunt and hdmi2 to drive it (or dp), I'd say anything from 960 to 980gtx .. sli, two way, three way(you could go dp here...), orgy-way, depends on what games you are into.
Before shelling out the big dollars, even more so, on this uber gaming rig, I am sure you are down with 4:4:4 capabilities and inputlag og said device... Right?

 

[TechyGeek]

Thank you for valuable feedback - I'll answer graphics questions briefly and get bk on topic for CPU.

I'm member of avsforum website where I was lurking for about a year before joining and buying tv based on personal observations, members recommendations, and the fact that this tv series is upgradable (swap one connect box with faster/more recent model). I'm aware of input lag and 4-4-4 capabilities. Based on feedback from avsforum members and youtube videos of un65hu9000 the lag is not a big deal.

That said, I need to know whatever cpu (oc'd ofcourse) goes into the pc will not be the bottleneck for next 2-3 years.

 

[Shmee]

Have you considered waiting for Broadwell E or Skylake E to see how those OC?

 

[jpiniero]

I can't imagine clock speeds would be much better on the E series. Intel might (if you're lucky) move the 8 core down to the $600 level on Skylake-E plus AVX-512.