Six coal barges sunk into the Ohio River

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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
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Did the first round of pizzas this evening. I'm impressed. Made 6 pizzas, 3 were excellent, 3 were very good.
The pellet hopper is small, and you have to keep an eye on it. As soon as it gets low you start losing heat. You also need to let the stone heat back up after every second pizza, it cools just enough that the crust doesn't come out perfect.

To assure that this still belongs in P&N, I'll also mention that I can't use it on a "spare the air" day here in the Peoples Republic of California. Bunch of damn democrats think my pizza oven is going to make a difference in air quality.

MPGA!!!
(Make pizza great again).
Not to worry. I park my diesel truck sideways across three Tesla recharging stations at the local Bart station. Damn environmentalists.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
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Is raw coal an environmental hazard?

when it's buried in a mountain and not regularly seeping into our drinking water? No, not really?

Extracted, processed, refined coal, dumped into large bodies of water in highly...er, titanically unnatural concentrations? Uh, probably?
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
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I haven't built it yet, I'm still doing design work. The idea isn't to get coal near the pizza but to have a chamber which is heated by coal which heats the floor and have a heat exchanger to move very hot air inside evenly. It's absolutely clean and produces more heat than wood for 60-90 second pies.

What happens comes down to money and physical ability, but it's an interesting thought experiment at the least. I'm looking for old oven and kiln designs and materials and will be looking for cheap local used firebricks. When it's all said and done it might be wood, but coal is relatively clean and I have a local source.

Come spring I'll let you know what/if anything is happening.

I bet Howard has made one, or thought about it seriously, at least. That guy hasn't posted here in quite some time, though. Several years, I think. He did post some gonzo schematic that he designed for a detached cold/warm smoking room that he said he was installing in his backyard. ...that's the last thing that I recall, anyway.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
when it's buried in a mountain and not regularly seeping into our drinking water? No, not really?

Extracted, processed, refined coal, dumped into large bodies of water in highly...er, titanically unnatural concentrations? Uh, probably?
Think positive. Think charcoal filter.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,448
1,070
126
when it's buried in a mountain and not regularly seeping into our drinking water? No, not really?

Extracted, processed, refined coal, dumped into large bodies of water in highly...er, titanically unnatural concentrations? Uh, probably?

Refined?

coal is mined, screened/crushed for loading efficiency, washed, loaded, unloaded and sometimes ground up to a powder, then burned. Unnatural concentrations? the coal is in one big seam/bed where its mined from the earth... it is not more or less concentrated at any point. There are now 1900 extra tons of rock in the river. A river that almost certainly comes in direct contact with natural coal seams wich sprout from the ground all over regions like the Rockies and the Appalachians.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,136
30,085
146
Refined?

coal is mined, screened/crushed for loading efficiency, washed, loaded, unloaded and sometimes ground up to a powder, then burned. Unnatural concentrations? the coal is in one big seam/bed where its mined from the earth... it is not more or less concentrated at any point. There are now 1900 extra tons of rock in the river. A river that almost certainly comes in direct contact with natural coal seams wich sprout from the ground all over regions like the Rockies and the Appalachians.

Sure, it remains concentrated in its vein, where it belongs, but not in the river bed where it is suddenly introduced in these cases. Time-gated natural seepage isn't the same as dumping literal shit-tons of the stuff into one spot where you would never naturally find it; let alone in resources that you depend on for human health.

I'm not really sure what the impact would be (in places like the Gulf, where oil seepage is normal, you've got massive niche ecosystems that actually feed off of the stuff and process it pretty well), but there is nothing natural about introducing a generally toxic resource (usually, the runoff from mining is worse than the actual rock, right?) within the very recent, geologically insignificant fart that is human existence--especially the only ~170 years or so that we have been mining this stuff--compared to the natural balance previously reached over 10s of millions of years.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,448
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the run off is toxic because of chemicals used in processing, not because of the rock ,generally, somewhat different if you are mining say, chromium or zinc, but these metals are usually in the matrix of the rock and getting them out is the toxic part. not much processing for coal. coal is the rock being mined. coal is not equal to oil.

its not super to dump coal in a river, but its not a disaster. the real problem here is the barges hitting the dam and blocking the gates.

the effluent you are probably thinking of is the coal ash, which is whats left after it is burned, and is quite toxic and a real problem.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Refined?

coal is mined, screened/crushed for loading efficiency, washed, loaded, unloaded and sometimes ground up to a powder, then burned. Unnatural concentrations? the coal is in one big seam/bed where its mined from the earth... it is not more or less concentrated at any point. There are now 1900 extra tons of rock in the river. A river that almost certainly comes in direct contact with natural coal seams wich sprout from the ground all over regions like the Rockies and the Appalachians.
Yup, zin's in the grips of doom and gloom. He needs to view coal as fossilized sunlight spiced up by the occasionally refraction off rainbows and triceratops horn.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
73,286
6,351
126
Sure, it remains concentrated in its vein, where it belongs, but not in the river bed where it is suddenly introduced in these cases. Time-gated natural seepage isn't the same as dumping literal shit-tons of the stuff into one spot where you would never naturally find it; let alone in resources that you depend on for human health.

I'm not really sure what the impact would be (in places like the Gulf, where oil seepage is normal, you've got massive niche ecosystems that actually feed off of the stuff and process it pretty well), but there is nothing natural about introducing a generally toxic resource (usually, the runoff from mining is worse than the actual rock, right?) within the very recent, geologically insignificant fart that is human existence--especially the only ~170 years or so that we have been mining this stuff--compared to the natural balance previously reached over 10s of millions of years.
In the last few minutes or so I have done an in depth review on the scientific literature on the dangers of plain old coal that gets into our water. I will not go over coal dust itself which also seems to have proven relatively harmless, just stick with a more lumpy variety. The gist if the matter is that while there is concern from various sources, not the least of which may be excessively active amygdalas, (my interpretation), that not enough resources and time have been thrown into studying the matter, the basic conclusions so far is that coal in the water isn't a really big threat. I suspect we might all live longer lives if all the coal that is mined gets dumped in the ocean rather than being burned. That's where the bad stuff gets released.