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Sistering or other solution for deck joists?

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
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Install a new rim joist, pressure block it to straighten up the existing joist and get a connection, put a layer of Vicore over the top of the new rim joist and blocks. Easy day.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
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Some of the ends seem flaky, which is stalling me from getting the rim joist install done. TC_00777.JPGTC_00775.JPGTC_00773.JPGTC_00771.JPGTC_00769.JPGTC_00767.JPGTC_00765.JPGTC_00763.JPGTC_00761.JPGTC_00759.JPG
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
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In a couple of those pics I can see decay further back from the front of the joist. Given that it's a second floor deck, you need to evaluate the entire structure. It may have reached the end of it's service life. Decks do collapse, and people are seriously injured or killed when it happens.
This isn't a simple repair as it first appeared, there is structural damage that needs to be addressed.
 

Torn Mind

Diamond Member
Nov 25, 2012
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7E3CFD5A-B206-476E-9431-12D66BF5B3AD.jpeg7A1BADEE-07AA-4705-9A1C-6F8C479D69E6.jpeg057436EE-EDDC-423B-A74A-B0A36A8763DC.jpegE8002335-A956-4C78-9384-9A46FD6A9B8B.jpeg0DAA035B-01AC-4DB4-AD69-1718D3C33EED.jpeg
I found a couple severely deteriorated at the wall. The others seem okay at the wall.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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I don’t want to act like a professional because I am not, if you are going to replace two or three why not do the whole damn thing?
Also look a trex boards a few months ago they were basically the same cost as decent wood deck boards.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
17,953
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Rot at the front, rot at the wall penetration, surface rot on the tops. You need to have that inspected by a pro. My guess is that you need a whole new deck, but pictures can be deceiving.
 
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lxskllr

No Lifer
Nov 30, 2004
55,070
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I'll throw in a "replace" opinion. Yea, it could be fixed, but it looks to me like you'd have 50% new material, and 50% old stuff that's in it's last 20% of useful life. For a repair option, you're looking at a decent amount of work for a halfassed final result. I'd maybe scab some boards on to buy time for a year or so to let lumber prices drop more, but I wouldn't want to put any time in for a thorough repair.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,007
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I'll throw in a "replace" opinion. Yea, it could be fixed, but it looks to me like you'd have 50% new material, and 50% old stuff that's in it's last 20% of useful life. For a repair option, you're looking at a decent amount of work for a halfassed final result. I'd maybe scab some boards on to buy time for a year or so to let lumber prices drop more, but I wouldn't want to put any time in for a thorough repair.
Sadly, lumber these days just isn't the same quality as it used to be. The environmentalists have stopped using many of the chemicals that made wood last. My floating dock only lasted 8 years before having quite a few screw holes start to have rot. I replaced all but 2 of 14 2X8's when I rebuilt it. The two that I reused were on the outer edge, so it would be work to replace them, but it would be doable. I also filled and sealed them where I could to protect them further.

My suggestion on any new builds is to hit the lumber with a good water sealant. Don't trust the wood not to decompose much faster than it used to.

For the rest of my dock surfaces, we went over them with a pigment colored deck paint to seal them up. Many of those boards, however, were older stock to start with and we just flipped them over when they were installed. The older boards have weathered much better than the new stuff I put in 8 years ago and they were probably 10 years old to start with.
 
Feb 4, 2009
31,484
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Sadly, lumber these days just isn't the same quality as it used to be. The environmentalists have stopped using many of the chemicals that made wood last. My floating dock only lasted 8 years before having quite a few screw holes start to have rot. I replaced all but 2 of 14 2X8's when I rebuilt it. The two that I reused were on the outer edge, so it would be work to replace them, but it would be doable. I also filled and sealed them where I could to protect them further.

My suggestion on any new builds is to hit the lumber with a good water sealant. Don't trust the wood not to decompose much faster than it used to.

For the rest of my dock surfaces, we went over them with a pigment colored deck paint to seal them up. Many of those boards, however, were older stock to start with and we just flipped them over when they were installed. The older boards have weathered much better than the new stuff I put in 8 years ago and they were probably 10 years old to start with.
The copper green stuff @Greenman (I think it was him) per reviews works really well. I used it a few times but it comes with a warning.
Absolutely for outside use the smell is atrocious.
It is oily and takes days to dry before staining or painting or even handling.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,007
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The copper green stuff @Greenman (I think it was him) per reviews works really well. I used it a few times but it comes with a warning.
Absolutely for outside use the smell is atrocious.
It is oily and takes days to dry before staining or painting or even handling.
Definitely. I just hate that's where we are. I'm pissed that you can't buy quality treated lumber anymore. (and that you won't know it one way or another until 5+ years down the road)

My recommendation is do everything in your power to minimize the number of holes you punch in the boards with screws or nails...and seal around them however you can. I buy those 4" wide rolls of window flashing for $9-10 and cut them in long 2" wide strips to go over the top of the joists. That goes a long way by creating a foil and tar barrier that helps keep water off the top of the board where it might sit.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
17,953
3,009
126
The copper green stuff @Greenman (I think it was him) per reviews works really well. I used it a few times but it comes with a warning.
Absolutely for outside use the smell is atrocious.
It is oily and takes days to dry before staining or painting or even handling.
I think jasco termin-8 is even better, it has more death in it. I thought it had been taken off the market, but it appears it's still available.
 

Gardener

Senior member
Nov 22, 1999
515
125
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Sadly, lumber these days just isn't the same quality as it used to be. The environmentalists have stopped using many of the chemicals that made wood last...
On the west coast USA there was a move 30 years ago to using substandard wood like hemlock as a treated wood for outdoor use. Doesn't matter what you treat it with, it is just sauce on shite.

That deck needs replace. Greenman's idea about flashing is very sensible, repeated wetting and drying is what ruins deck wood, in most cases it isn't biological/microbial.
 
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Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
17,953
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126
You can get any grade or type of lumber pressure treated, none of it is very good because the stuff they soak it with was reformulated years back. Not nearly as good as it used to be, and a lot less toxic.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
57,756
6,024
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The copper green stuff @Greenman (I think it was him) per reviews works really well. I used it a few times but it comes with a warning.
Absolutely for outside use the smell is atrocious.
It is oily and takes days to dry before staining or painting or even handling.
That "green stuff" was chromated copper arsenate. Not very healthy stuff to fuck with.

Chromated copper arsenate (CCA), which contains 47.5% hexavalent chromium, 18.5% copper, and 34% inorganic arsenic, is a pesticide and preservative that was used to pressure treat lumber beginning in the 1940s. In the 1970s, CCA was widely used in the United States for outdoor residential wood such as decks, picnic tables, landscaping timbers, fencing, patios, walkways, boardwalks, and playground structures until it was phased out by the EPA in 2003.
I spent about a year working for a drilling contractor who specialized in doing soldier beam and timber lagging for large excavations.


They used the cca lumber. Just a large splinter could fuck you up. Arsenic just ain't so good for humans...or the planet.
 

paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,504
275
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www.the-teh.com
That deck with the cantilever part alone makes me queasy.

Definitely. I just hate that's where we are. I'm pissed that you can't buy quality treated lumber anymore. (and that you won't know it one way or another until 5+ years down the road)

My recommendation is do everything in your power to minimize the number of holes you punch in the boards with screws or nails...and seal around them however you can. I buy those 4" wide rolls of window flashing for $9-10 and cut them in long 2" wide strips to go over the top of the joists. That goes a long way by creating a foil and tar barrier that helps keep water off the top of the board where it might sit.
I bought the 'best' 6x6 PT lumber posts for my gazebo and set them in the fall. Next spring I went to frame a roof on them and 2 were so atrociously twisted I have to replace them. I was so furious!

On the west coast USA there was a move 30 years ago to using substandard wood like hemlock as a treated wood for outdoor use. Doesn't matter what you treat it with, it is just sauce on shite.

That deck needs replace. Greenman's idea about flashing is very sensible, repeated wetting and drying is what ruins deck wood, in most cases it isn't biological/microbial.
I thought hemlock was pretty good?
 
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Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,007
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That deck with the cantilever part alone makes me queasy.



I bought the 'best' 6x6 PT lumber posts for my gazebo and set them in the fall. Next spring I went to frame a roof on them and 2 were so atrociously twisted I have to replace them. I was so furious!
I bought some 22' 6x6s and had one of them actually bow. I'm just calling it character. They all have exterior splits/cracks in them that I need to fill with something. It's happening on my party pavilion posts too.
 
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paperfist

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2000
6,504
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www.the-teh.com
I bought some 22' 6x6s and had one of them actually bow. I'm just calling it character. They all have exterior splits/cracks in them that I need to fill with something. It's happening on my party pavilion posts too.
Whoa 22' 6x6? Those be heavy :D

Mine have the same kind of splits and cracks, I never thought about filling them like that. I was going to case them out with something else. I guess though then I'd have to deal with expansion and contraction issues. Haha I was originally planning to cover them in stone veneer but surly that will crack with PT being so unstable.
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,007
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Whoa 22' 6x6? Those be heavy :D

Mine have the same kind of splits and cracks, I never thought about filling them like that. I was going to case them out with something else. I guess though then I'd have to deal with expansion and contraction issues. Haha I was originally planning to cover them in stone veneer but surly that will crack with PT being so unstable.
I was building a boat house so they needed to be buried about 3' deep and surrounded by concrete in the lake bed.

Heavy yes....what's worse? When you're only 6'4" tall, how do you stand them up vertically in a 3' deep hole? I ended up getting a buddy of mine to help and we used the rear gate of a 16' trailer as a pivot point and dropped them right in place. Luckily there were only six of them and we were able to tie them in down low and up high to make the structure. (kind of like you would with a pole barn)
 

Scarpozzi

Lifer
Jun 13, 2000
26,007
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back to the OP, sistering is out :)
If I were going to do any sistering, I would drill and use galvanized machine bolts with large washers or steel plates on both sides to spread the load. That might help *correct the cupping. You can also tighten the bolts slowly over a longer period of time to keep the older wood from cracking...especially if its moisture content is low.
 

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