Sins of a Solar Empire: I suck! :)

Mar 10, 2005
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having become completely frustrated with gratuitous space battles, i've finally stepped up to sins. i don't like rts, but i love space combat. i'm having fun getting rolled by computer for now. the killer is these damn pirates don't stop! i wish there was a pause button just so i could take a pee break.
 

Liet

Golden Member
Jun 9, 2001
1,529
0
0
What got you frustrated about GSB? I think it's one of the finest indy game ever made, that fits its niche perfectly.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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Dirty Sanchez's Guide for Sins Noobies

Sins is an awesome game and it's captivated me for 3 years, but I only play it in online multiplayer people v. people (PvP) games. Here's some advice from a heavily experienced pro player.

First off, Trinity is not a game in itself, but a collection of the original Vanilla Sins (released in Feb 2008) and its two expansions, Entrenchment (Fall 2008) and Diplomacy (Feb 2010). So "Trinity" is just a fancy of way of saying "Sins Complete" or "Sins and its two expansions in one package."

Regarding the Pirates, they were somewhat of a joke in Vanilla and Entrenchment and mostly served as capital ship food. (Your fleet kills them with your capital ship present and your capital ship gains experience so that it can level up and become stronger.) At best they were annoying. For the Diplomacy expansion, the Devs put them on steroids and now they are severely overpowered. Most people who play Diplomacy in single player have them turned off for that reason (see Game Settings button in the game setup screen). They will get nerfed in the upcoming patch. So, for now if you're going to play Diplomacy, just turn them off.

My advice is to start out by playing Vanilla where the focus is on ship-to-ship and fleet-to-fleet combat. Learning to do this well is an essential skill. It also reduces the complexity since you'll only have two tech trees (not counting the easily understood Fleet tree) to learn, Military and Civic. You can play with the Pirates on here if you like.

After you feel good about Vanilla Sins, move on to Entrenchment where you'll get to learn all about starbases and improved defensive fortifications. The lessons to be learned here are how to use starbases properly, when and where to build them, and how to destroy them in addition to their abilities and strengths and weaknesses. You can play with the Pirates on if you wish. Entrenchment also adds another tech tree for your to learn, the Starbase/Defensive Fortification Improvements tree. Entrenchment also adds the Quickstart option which you'll probably want to use once you get up to speed. (With Quickstart, at the beginning of the game you start out with your metal and crystal extractors already built, two scouts, your capital ship factory built, and your home planet population and thus planet income fully upgraded. It shaves a couple boring minutes off the start of the game.)

Then you'll be ready for Diplomacy. Diplomacy was primarily aimed at the single player crowd that plays free for alls (FFA) against multiple AI opponents, adding the ability to more easily manipulate the AIs. I don't know how well it all works. It also introduces the Envoy ship which allows you to form military and economic pacts with another ally. Note that Diplomacy includes everything that was in the Entrenchment expansion. For Diplomacy you will want to play with the Pirates set to Off, at least until the next patch is released.

In online multiplayer, 90% of all Diplomacy games play like Entrenchment except there is a Faster speed setting (which we use) and you have to research the ability to give credits and minerals to allies. Sometimes a few players will make the pacts.

---------------------------------

Sins has a learning curve and there's a lot to learn. Once you know the basics then you'll be ready to start to learn Micro and Macro strategy. So, start out with Vanilla, then go to Entrenchment, and then move up to Diplomacy.

Also, it's very important to play each race and to learn each race's tech trees, strengths, and weaknesses. There are 9 combinations of strategy and tactics that you need to learn since your approach will often depend on what race you are and what race you are fighting.

Essential Reading: Raging Amish's Unit Comparison Guide

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/319926

Chart of Armor and Damage Multipliers. (I don't think this is completely accurate and perhaps not up-to-date, but it gives you some idea of the mechanics involved with how the ships counter one another.)

http://spreadsheets.google.com/pub?key=tL2s8xxE429nFYEvV2MfjQg&gid=0


If you're wondering how you access the three versions of the game, just make Desktop shortcuts of the three individual .exe's which you can find in your main Sins folder (probably in Program Files ---> Stardock Games ---> Sins of a Solar Empire).

Sins of a Solar Empire.exe
Sins of a Solar Empire Entrenchment.exe
Sins of a Solar Empire Diplomacy.exe


Sins Discussion Forum

Also, be sure to visitg the Sins discussion forums and the Strategy forum:

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/



Replays of Diplomacy Pro Games

It might also be instructive to watch replays of pro player games. Here are some download links:

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20026677/Wild_Crazy

http://www.filefront.com/16604915/5v...1-2010.record/

http://www.filefront.com/17208598/Ha...lomacy.record/

http://www.filefront.com/16544859/Lo...lomacy.record/

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20323501/Good+5v5+pro+game.zip

Here's a thread with a summary of the "Wild and Crazy Epic 5v5 game" along with installation instructions. (I played in that game under the name "Haywood Yablowme".)

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/405557

How do I watch a Sins replay?

If you've never watched a replay before, first you need to have the current (non-beta patch) version of Sins Diplomacy installed. Download the file and put it in one of your replay folders, preferably Record-Multiplayer. You can find it in your Sins Application Data folder. Instructions on locating it can be found in this thread:

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/363325

Once you have the file, load up Diplomacy, make sure that all of your mods are disabled, select Single Player, and then "Watch Game". Scroll through the different replay menus until you find it.
One last note, those replays only work on Diplomacy v1.011. (At the bottom right of the screen you'll see what version of the game you are on.) So, when the next patch is released (soon), if you install the patch you won't be able to watch those replays unless you have a duplicate Sins folder for Diplomacy v1.011).


Online Multiplayer PvP Advice

Once you've learned the game, the real fun is online multiplayer PvP. (I don't think you could have a game like that Epic 5v5 with just AIs; the AI is actually very silly and has no sense of real strategy or tactics.) Vanilla and Entrenchment are on a separate server from Diplomacy. (On the Vanilla/Entrenchment server you cannot see Entrenchment games if you are on Vanilla and vice-versa.) Your best bet as a new online player is probably to start out playing other people (or people against AIs) on Vanilla or Entrenchment because you're more likely to find newer players.

The real action is on Diplomacy where you can find the 4v4 and 5v5 PvP games, but you'll also face off against the pro players. Once you have a solid grasp of the game and can whip the AI, then you might be ready to start learning the pro-level PvP game. You'll have to take your lumps and play at least 50 games against other people to get up to speed and be able to hold your own, but it is so very worth it. One benefit is that you can always watch the replays your game auto-records and study the games and especially the pro players. A new guy who sincerely wants to improve and who studies the game diligently can get up to speed and learn to hold his own and contribute to his team in a month.


Mesh Error in Online Multiplayer (Trinity)

If you purchased Trinity as a single package, it is possible that you may experience the dreaded Mesh Error when you go to play online. It is easy to fix once you know what it is and how to fix it. For example, you might see a game with 7 of 10 players in it and want to join it but find yourself unable to join it. Obviously, those 7 players aren't having a problem so it's on your end. You might get the following error message when you try to join:

"Your Mesh Files Differ from the Host's".

Then you'll get booted out to a blank chat room (not the main Lobby, use Change/Create Channel to get back the chat Lobby).

It's possible that the host is running a game with a Mod on it, but very unlikely, especially if there are many people in the game. More than likely, your installation of the game has three extra mesh files in it which makes your installation different from other people's installations. For some ridiculous reason that no one has ever been able to fully understand, when they packed Trinity they added some extra mesh files and won't delete them with a patch (something to do with permission settings issues I think). This thread tells you how to fix it, especially post number #33.

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/341480

Post #33:

http://forums.sinsofasolarempire.com/341480/page/2/#2670905




 
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Mar 10, 2005
14,647
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wow, killer post, whippersnapper!

What got you frustrated about GSB? I think it's one of the finest indy game ever made, that fits its niche perfectly.

with the campaign expansion, the crashing is much more frequent. quality software means i don't have to close and restart every half hour, or after every big battle.

there is only one campaign map by default. i'm not going to write my own, nor should i have to mod in others.

at default difficulty, i had all but 2 or 3 planets conquered. i then lost a battle, but the last enemy ship was killed posthumously. this broke the game on the eve of my victory :mad:

at admiral difficulty, the game isn't difficult, it's cheap.

apparently, the dev never played risk 2, because the game desperately needs border clashes. if you attack, expect the computer to pick the same moment to attack you.
 

stevty2889

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2003
7,036
8
81
having become completely frustrated with gratuitous space battles, i've finally stepped up to sins. i don't like rts, but i love space combat. i'm having fun getting rolled by computer for now. the killer is these damn pirates don't stop! i wish there was a pause button just so i could take a pee break.

Pirates can definitely be a pain until you get use to handling them, as others suggested you can try turning them off until you get a better feel for the game. The pause button on the keyboard(if you have one), does in fact pause the game..

While I've never actually played multiplayer, I do enjoy this game quite a bit.
 
Oct 30, 2004
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While I've never actually played multiplayer, I do enjoy this game quite a bit.

The online multiplayer is lots of fun and I hope you'll give it a try sometime. You'll find that human opponents are much more challenging and that they won't do the kinds of silly things the AI does such as suiciding on your starbase or dribbling ships towards your fleet one by one or in small numbers so you can easily knock them down. Human players are also capable of understanding macro and micro strategy and tactics.

It's much more challenging and you'll have to expand your knowledge of the game and its strategy, but it's very worthwhile. In my opinion, the games are much more suspenseful and interesting. Also, large team games add a new element of team strategy and cooperation along with different roles.

For example, sometimes you could start out between two allies in the "eco" spot, in which case your job is mainly to build up a rich economy ASAP and feed credits and resources to needy allies as well as to provide some support. Sometimes you might even want to "fleet up" and attack across the middle of the map or open up a second front on one of the flanks.

In other games you might start out in the "suicide" spot wedged between 4 or 5 allied opponents, and the two next to you will have nothing to do other than to focus on taking you down (so that they can become eco guys). That's a very challenging situation and one where you have to figure out how best to contribute to your team. I've seen players win games single-handedly by being a huge pain-in-the-ass from that position. If you can hold your position and fortify yourself well enough so that they cannot attack you but cannot ignore you either (by moving their fleets elsewhere) you can really occupy their attention. In other cases you might need to pack bags, pump out a Mothership, quickly get your ice and volcanic colonization researched, and migrate towards the middle of the map, "going refugee". In that case you're hoping to be able to hit other opponents in the back while they're engaged with your other allies.

Sometimes it's not about whether you win or lose your battle against the guy you're fighting, but how you lose it. If you are going to go down, can you delay your opponent so that he can't quickly hit a nearby ally? Can you inflict heavy damages on him? Can you make every ship count so that you don't lose anything for nothing, perhaps regrouping parts of your fleet (especially capital ships) elsewhere so that you can help an ally or fight again later?

If you have Diplomacy, watch that replay to get a sense of the balance of power can tilt back and forth.

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20026677/Wild_Crazy

I think it's a tremendous amount of fun. You do have to be willing to absorb a couple butt whoopings in the beginning while you are learning how to play against human opponents. (Real people play very differently than the AI and you need to play in about 25 games or so to get a sense of what people are going to do so that you can anticipate it and counter appropriately.)

Unfortunately, the online player counts are low, but you can still find 4v4 and 5v5 action every night on the Diplomacy server. Do note that contrary to what many people might think, it only takes 1:15-1:45 to play one of those games. We play with Quickstart on and all Faster speeds, normally on the huge random single star map. Also, unlike the games you are probably used to playing where you take on 9 AI opponents, in a 4 on 4 or 5 on 5 you match up 1-for-1 against the opposing team, so you don't have to kill 9 guys. When the outcome of the game has pretty much been decided and the losing team can see the writing on the wall, they normally call it "gg" and quit, sparing the winning team the boring mop-up motions and allowing for a new, competitive game to be formed.

If you've mastered the game and can whip the AI, you might consider moving up to playing other people. I hope you'll give a 5v5 a try sometime. We need more players.
 
Mar 10, 2005
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wooo just won my first game! i was making good progress until going back and forth on a chokepoint. once i could pin the computer's mega fleet down, it was just a matter of cleaning up. i don't think i'm nearly as efficient as i should be, probably my poor rts skills and unfamiliarity are dragging the game out.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,695
31,043
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damn you, Whipper Snapper! I am now completely addicted to this game. :(

I finally purchased Entrench/Dip. playing through my first game of Entrenchment and I find it surprisingly easy--this match anyway.

2v2 aggressive AI as Advent (now 2 games with advent and 2 with Vasari--I think I prefer Advent). Large system with one star. May need to try a few more with TEC now that I understand this game a lot more.


I don't know why this first play through entrenchment is so easy, especially with the aggressive options that I chose (ally is vasari; AI is advent + TEC--maybe that is why?)--it could be that I have a very favorable spawn point. choke point to the south is a gas giant that the Advent enemy AI has been very reluctant to travel through--until I built a space station (they have 2 mines there), which they promptly sent a cap ship and some bombers to destroy just as it was complete, hehe.

that would have forced them all the way to the top, b/c the other main choke point for me is the pirate base. no one travels through that. I have one star base now on a minor chokepoint north of the pirates, so I'm basically helping my ally pound the TEC enemy. Ally is the only one being attacked, but the Advent is so spread out now that they will probably be tough to squash when I start focusing on them.

No one is really challenging me with bounty. Don't know why. I find that the economy for this Advent game exploded, and I have no idea why. I remember struggling for so long with them in an earlier start.
 

Patterner

Senior member
Dec 20, 2010
227
0
0
I love Sins...haven't played in awhile.

I personally never found the pirates in Diplomacy to be that big a deal unless I just completely ignored the bounties. I just make sure to keep the bounty higher on the other guy(s) more often than not and make him worry about it. :)
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,323
1,837
126
Never played Sins, I remember when it came out, I considered buying it, but they were out of stock at gamestop and I grabbed Galciv2 instead, which I enjoyed....

I should pick it up, its on steam nowadays, aye?

It'll be a while before I get into a new game probably, as I've gotten hooked on X3 again.... But, I like complicated games that are hard to figure out....
 

rivan

Diamond Member
Jul 8, 2003
9,677
3
81
Is Sins worthwhile for the SP?

In all likelihood, I'll never ever play a human opponent in a game like this.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,695
31,043
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It's on Impulse, which is just fine. I don't know if I'll ever play multi either, as I'm currently having enough fun with SP. by the time I feel I am ready to be griefed by real people, I will probably be sick of Sins, anyway.

There is no campaign, so it's more like Civ--an open-ended empire/culture/military strategy game each time you play. While the Ai is really good from what I've noticed, I wish my teammates could be a bit less dumb--actually clearing out planets when they attack our enemies--not just waste a few structures and move along so they can rebuild, and when they send a fleet into my system, as I'm about to attack a neighboring enemy, actually send the fleet with me on attack, rather than turn around go back home. lol, bitches.

I haven't played Diplomacy, yet, though. ...so maybe there are better.
 

AFurryReptile

Golden Member
Nov 5, 2006
1,998
1
76
Is Sins worthwhile for the SP?

In all likelihood, I'll never ever play a human opponent in a game like this.

It's worth the purchase. I just got it a few weeks ago and I'd say it is arguably the best RTS I've ever played.

It's punishingly difficult though, even on the easiest settings. You'll get used to it, and it does get more enjoyable, but the first few matches suck.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,695
31,043
146
It's worth the purchase. I just got it a few weeks ago and I'd say it is arguably the best RTS I've ever played.

It's punishingly difficult though, even on the easiest settings. You'll get used to it, and it does get more enjoyable, but the first few matches suck.

This x1million. As someone mentioned earlier, I waited several years before purchasing this even after it looked so awesome upon release. I've always liked these type of space 4x4, or always told myself that I do--but as much as a I like a complex game, these have always been hugely complex for me, so I pushed it away.

Then I finally purchased Sins almost a year ago when it was 7 bucks. Tried to get into it a few times (also got Galactic Civ 2--arguably much easier, but still couldn't get into it). I probably attempted 4 plays over that time, and didn't get very far. kept getting wiped out way too early, and just very annoyed. It can be punishingly difficult the first 1 or 4 times through...but once you start to include some of the strategies and tips from the forums--especially race specific tips and start to understand the game mechanics, how to properly use the research tiers, it is a truly fantastic game. Easily one of the best to ever hit the PC.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,695
31,043
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i find the game most enjoyable in the early stages, and towards the end i'm thinking "come on. just end this."

true. the clearing out can be tedious, especially if victory is secure. this is against AI, I guess.

the problem for me is that there is no campaign which it desperately needs, so you probably start to ask yourself after playing through so many times...what is the point? I play to repeat the same early-to-mid game moments, then it all grinds to tedium in the end?

I think this is why it shines most properly as a multiplayer game, but I still enjoy dealing with AI.

There are also a lot of mods out there, and while I haven't tried any of them, some of those Star Wars, BSG, whatever mods look real sexy.
 

ElFenix

Elite Member
Super Moderator
Mar 20, 2000
102,393
8,552
126
Damn, guess I'll just buy a physical copy then one of these days .... (After all Stardock is a pretty good company.)

stardock runs their own competitor to steam called impulse. it's on impulse.