Single user RAID performance .. thoughts and a question

SadisticOne

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Nov 23, 2004
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I'm upgrading my wifes system, and have been looking at RAID options.

There is some amount of myth and misinformation associated with the performance benefits of RAID. Contrary to (some) popular belief, typically, single users don't benefit from RAID, since RAID systems are mostly designed to assist with queued I/O in different locales of the disk. Single user I/O patterns are typically limited in simultaneous operations and highly localized.

Storage review did a piece on this in their TCQ, RAID, SCSI, and SATA article. A priority of my upgrade project is redundant storage of data, so RAID1 and RAID0+1 are effectively my options with controller based solutions.

Another article which tested Raptor360's on a variety of on-board controllers was Chipset Serial ATA and RAID performance comparison, which included not only pure benchmarks but some "realworld" benchmarks, also.

Effectively, to get a performance benefit with redundancy, you need a 0+1 RAID solution. RAID1 even though it theoretically has the possibility for offering better read performance (through simultaneous reads on both primary and mirror drive,) these don't materialize in any of the low-end, uncached controllers, and even then, I doubt it would make much difference in a single user environment.

RAID 0+1 (on nf3) seems to show real, tangible benefit, in terms of raw HDtach avg write rates, around 35%, a penalty for HDtach avg read rates, and significant benefits in IOMeter Workstation ( even at 2 through 8 "load", although performance plateaus there) and Content Creation tests, in the order of 200% benefit.

Drive speed obviously effects these figures. The drives that I'd consider for a 0+1 array would be Seagate SATA 200GB's (or Seagate SATA 160 SATAII's, but I've seen anecdotal evidence that TCQ/NCQ actually hurts single user performance, as per storagereview's article.)

My other option would be to use a RAID1 mirror of WD Raptor 740D's, and then an additional IDE or SATA mirror, and use NTFS mountpoints within the drive to relocate Documents and Settings profiles and select Program Files directories to the larger and slower mirror, getting around the limited capacity (which is a bit of an issue.)

A 0+1 array of Raptor's is theoretically possible to budget for, but... it costs $700 or so, for 148GB of capacity, vs $500 or so for 400GB.

I'm leaning towards 4x Segate 200GB drives on an nforce3 (the DFI Lanparty UT 250gb nforce3, suggested by Hajime in reply to my initial post,) although I'm still not convinced, looking at the graphs, how a mirror of Raptors would compare to the relatively slow Barracuda 7200.7's in a real-world situation, being that the Raptor is probably 25-30% quicker to begin with, as a single drive, in raw speed.

So... if this were your $400-600 budget, which route would you go?
 

Blain

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
23,643
3
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If I were limited on budget and wanted a RAID array...
I'd get the DFI LANParty NFII with its RAID 1.5.
I'd set it up with a nice little 35W XP-M and two 200GB Seagate SATA HDs. RAID them up as RAID 1.5 and you're ready to go.
 

uOpt

Golden Member
Oct 19, 2004
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I would use software RAID, but using a software not coupled to specific controller. That way you can move the whole disk array to a different computer without trouble.

I just got three Seagate barracuda 7000.7 200 GB which do very well except for one P-ATA bug in my Linux drivers limiting throughput of the overall array for now.

Still cursing Maxtor.
 

SadisticOne

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Nov 23, 2004
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Blain:

HPT372N is UltraATA/133, and I'd prefer not to go with those. Reading the article, I'm unconvinced that RAID1.5 is a significant improvement over RAID1.

Martin:

Partially, the point of the upgrade, is increased performance. Software RAID allows for 0, 1 and 5, but 5 would be slow in software, so 1 would be the only option. Whilst software RAID allows for me to migrate the partition between motherboards, I can't see the application, right now, and RAID1, wouldn't be any quicker than a single Barracuda 7200.7 drive, which is nice but not... great.

RAID0+1, at least provides a benefit, whilst not in every situation, is at least as quick in all, and in certain situations, way quicker. The nforce3 implementation seems to be pretty good.

You mention that you got 3 Seagate Barracuda's... What kind of RAID set do you run?
 

uOpt

Golden Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Originally posted by: SadisticOne
Blain:

HPT372N is UltraATA/133, and I'd prefer not to go with those. Reading the article, I'm unconvinced that RAID1.5 is a significant improvement over RAID1.

Martin:

Partially, the point of the upgrade, is increased performance. Software RAID allows for 0, 1 and 5, but 5 would be slow in software, so 1 would be the only option. Whilst software RAID allows for me to migrate the partition between motherboards, I can't see the application, right now, and RAID1, wouldn't be any quicker than a single Barracuda 7200.7 drive, which is nice but not... great.

RAID0+1, at least provides a benefit, whilst not in every situation, is at least as quick in all, and in certain situations, way quicker. The nforce3 implementation seems to be pretty good.

You mention that you got 3 Seagate Barracuda's... What kind of RAID set do you run?

I have 16 GB boot on each disk (no RAID), then two partitions of RAID-0 and three of RAID-5.

I found that RAID-5 on the three disks performs pretty well, about 10% more than the single disks for throughput measurement. There is some CPU overhead but I rarely have a CPU hog which also streams heavily.

I need about 6% of my 2.8C P4 for the RAID-5 when streaming the disk, that is about the same that the log mechanism for the filesystem takes. To put it into perspective, a process just writing 8 KB blocks takes 12% CPU just for the system calls. So we are really not talking about too much overhead here for the RAID-5, although these 6% are deep in the kernel and hence hurt more than 6% in userland. (EDIT to clearify: the total CPU usage is 6% RAID + 6% log + 12% user process).

Interestingly, using the RAID-5 partitions over the network feels much faster with the Seagates now than with the Maxtors. Might be imagination or better seek times of the seagates.
 

Xatrix

Senior member
Oct 19, 2004
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Unless you are running a server, RAID seems like a bad choice... esp. if you are gaming.
 

uOpt

Golden Member
Oct 19, 2004
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If you run Office apps, web browsers and games then speedup through RAID makes little sense. It can be nice to load some of the bulk games files, but it won't affect framerate during actual play.

If you archive lots of mailing lists, have your own web robots, do backup in cronjobs, have your own search for your archives, often compile lots of C files (very quick per file, quicker than C++) then it can make a lot of sense.

If you copy lots of video files around then even more. If you often push down uncompressed video towards a network filesystem you pretty much need it.

Of course it helps a lot if you know what youa re doing. If you screw up a graphics card speedup (overclocking) then you just scale back or at worst you need a new card. If you screw up playing with your mass storage, well then it's a nice write-only memory.
 

TerryMathews

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,464
2
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My $0.02
-Promise cards support moving arrays onto different controllers... I was able to boot a 2 drive stripe on a SuperTrak SX6000 that was created on a FastTrak66.
-AFAIK the cheapeast card available that supports increased read speeds on RAID 1 is the SuperTrak. Onboard memory is pretty much a requirement to make the read acceleration work.