Single-payer medical system might well be workable in U.S.

shira

Diamond Member
Jan 12, 2005
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I just came across a Newsweek article from a couple weeks back by Jane Bryant Quinn in which she argues that a single-payer, universal health care system for the U.S. actually makes a lot of sense. The article is not that long, so I'm quoting it in its entirely here.

Yes, We Can All Be Insured

Prepare to be terrorized, shocked, scared out of your wits. No, not by jihadists or Dementors (you do read "Harry Potter," right?), but by the evil threat of ... universal health insurance! The more the presidential candidates talk it up, the wilder the warnings against it. Cover everyone? Wreck America? Do you know what care would cost?
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But the public knows the American health-care system is breaking up, no matter how much its backers cheer. For starters, there's the 46 million uninsured (projected to rise to 56 million in five years). There's the shock of the underinsured when they learn that their policies exclude a costly procedure they need?forcing them to run up an unpayable bill, beg for charity care or go without. And think of the millions who plan their lives around health insurance?where to work, whether to start a business, when to retire, even whom to marry (there are "benefits" marriages, just as there are "green card" marriages). It shocks the conscience that those who profit from this mess tell us to suck it up.

I do agree that we can't afford to cover everyone under the crazy health-care system we have now. We can't even afford all the people we're covering already, which is why we keep booting them out. But we have an excellent template for universal care right under our noses: good old American Medicare. When you think of reform, think "Medicare for all."

Medicare is what's known as a single-payer system. In the U.S. version, the government pays for health care delivered in the private sector. There's one set of comprehensive benefits, with premiums, co-pays and streamlined paperwork. You can buy private coverage for the extra costs.

Health insurers hate this model, which would end their gravy train. So they're trying to tar single-payer as a kind of medical Voldemort, ready to destroy. Here are some of their canards, and my replies:

Universal coverage costs too much. No?what costs too much is the system we have now. In 2005, the United States spent 15.3 percent of gross domestic product on health care for only some of us. France spent 10.7 percent and covered everyone. The French comparison is good because its system works very much like Medicare-for-all. The other European countries, all with universal coverage, spent less than France.

Why are U.S. costs off the charts? Partly because we don't bargain with providers for a universal price. Partly because of the money that health insurers spend on marketing and screening people in or out. Medicare's overhead is just 1.5 percent, compared with 13 to 16 percent in the private sector. John Sheils of the Lewin Group, a health-care consultant, says that the health insurers' overhead came to $120 billion last year, of which $40 billion was profit. By comparison, it would cost $54 billion to cover all the uninsured.

Eeeek, your taxes would go up! Maybe not, if Sheils is right. Both the Congressional Budget Office and the General Accounting Office have testified that the United States could insure everyone for the money we're spending now. But even if taxes did rise, you might still come out ahead. That's because your Medicare plan would probably cost less than the medical bills and premiums you're paying now.

We get world-class care; don't tamper with it. On average, we don't. International surveys put France in first place. On almost all measures of health care and mortality, we lag behind Canada and Europe. Many individuals do indeed get superior care, but so do people in single-payer countries, and at lower cost.

They have long waiting times. No advanced country has waiting periods for emergency surgery or procedures that are urgently needed. The United States has shorter waits than Canada and England for elective surgery. Still, queues are developing here, at the doctor's door. In a study of five developed countries, the Commonwealth Fund looked at how many sick adults had to wait six days or more for an appointment. By this measure, only Canada's record was worse than ours. But waits depend on how well a system is funded, not with the fact that it's single-payer. Many countries that cover everyone, including France, Belgium, Germany and Japan, report no issue with waits at all.

There's no problem; people get care even if they're uninsured. They don't. They get emergency treatment but little else. As a group, the uninsured are sicker, suffer more from chronic disease and rarely get rehabilitation after an injury or surgery. They also die sooner?knowing that, with insurance, they might have lived.

Right now, Congress is trying to bring 3.3 million uninsured children into the State Children's Health Insurance Program. President George W. Bush says he'll veto the expansion as "the wrong path for our nation." He objects to "government-run health care" (like Medicare?) and says that SCHIP "deprives Americans of ... choice" (like the choice to go uninsured?). Buzzwords like "government run" are supposed to summon up monsters like "socialized medicine" that apparently still lurk under our beds. If these terror tactics work, prepare for another 46 million uninsured.
I find nothing questionable in Quinn's argument. It's entirely believable that America is in its current health-care mess because a VERY profitable industry has desperately fought to protect its turf, and will tell almost any lie and pay almost any price (to legislators) to keep the current system in place.

And I particularly like Quinn's argument that the total yearly cost of covering the uninsured - $54 billion - would be less than half of the U.S. insurance industry's overhead ($120 billion).
 

StageLeft

No Lifer
Sep 29, 2000
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They have long waiting times. No advanced country has waiting periods for emergency surgery or procedures that are urgently needed. The United States has shorter waits than Canada and England for elective surgery. Still, queues are developing here, at the doctor's door. In a study of five developed countries, the Commonwealth Fund looked at how many sick adults had to wait six days or more for an appointment. By this measure, only Canada's record was worse than ours. But waits depend on how well a system is funded, not with the fact that it's single-payer. Many countries that cover everyone, including France, Belgium, Germany and Japan, report no issue with waits at all.
Elective is a MAJOR Part of the medical system. What if you are having chest pains but they're not deemed worthy of immediate care? You might get an echocardiogram in 1-2 days here. Try months in Canada. What if you have splitting headaches? No, they don't kill you, you've had them for years, but you see a doctor in Canada and he books and MRI for 6 months from now. Doctor in the US has you get one two days from now. What if your hip is killing you and you finally want to get it replaced? What if something you think isn't a big deal and your doctor thinks isn't a big deal is put on the backburner (or rather, "in the queue") and it turns out that progression occured during that long window in Canada.

The wait times are a BIG DEAL. They are really one of the main reasons I like the US system. I don't feel helpless here; if I want to see a specialist in a week or two in the US I can. And have. And in Canada, the wait is magnitudes longer.
 

mfs378

Senior member
May 19, 2003
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Originally posted by: Skoorb
Elective is a MAJOR Part of the medical system. What if you are having chest pains but they're not deemed worthy of immediate care? You might get an echocardiogram in 1-2 days here. Try months in Canada. What if you have splitting headaches? No, they don't kill you, you've had them for years, but you see a doctor in Canada and he books and MRI for 6 months from now. Doctor in the US has you get one two days from now. What if your hip is killing you and you finally want to get it replaced? What if something you think isn't a big deal and your doctor thinks isn't a big deal is put on the backburner (or rather, "in the queue") and it turns out that progression occured during that long window in Canada.

The wait times are a BIG DEAL. They are really one of the main reasons I like the US system. I don't feel helpless here; if I want to see a specialist in a week or two in the US I can. And have. And in Canada, the wait is magnitudes longer.

I don't know the answer, but even neglecting those without health insurance, what fraction of Americans do you think would get an MRI in two days time? What fraction do you think would get none at all?

These people couldn't get one: google
 

Stunt

Diamond Member
Jul 17, 2002
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Single payer is workable...look at other countries...just increase taxes by 25+%...
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
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Topic Summary: Counterarguments are just propaganda

Well, that's certainly convenient. :p

As Skoorb stated, it's the elective stuff that countries like Canada start to lag upon. When medical help is limited, you have to prioritize. That said, a two-tier system might be the way to go (we're moving towards it ourselves, just in the opposite direction). Though frankly I think that "free" comprehensive healthcare down there is going to be a colossal disaster, as it's certain to be abused and mismanaged.
 

Genx87

Lifer
Apr 8, 2002
41,091
513
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This thread is too funny. No higher costs, everybody covered, we lag the rest of the world.

Propaganda is what this thread is all about.

Anybody who believes a govt run program will not see taxes increase is feeding you a large load in your mouth.
 

Hacp

Lifer
Jun 8, 2005
13,923
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Originally posted by: Genx87
This thread is too funny. No higher costs, everybody covered, we lag the rest of the world.

Propaganda is what this thread is all about.

Anybody who believes a govt run program will not see taxes increase is feeding you a large load in your mouth.

And no one believes that the free market will cover uninsured people. Look at insurance companies now. They cherry pick the healthiest people, and then charge them high fees to maximize profit. Insurance is supposed to pool money together, so we can share the risk in case someone gets hurt. Instead, the companies are pooling the unhealthy and poor out of the loop, while keeping the healthy in their programs.