Since when did the Vietnam war become a good thing to Americans?

[WinkOsmosis]

I remember just a few years ago, it was a bad, unjust war. Now Kerry is bragging about fighting in it, and being bashed for defecting from it and heading Vietnam Veterans Against the War. WTF?

 

[Witling]

It was a bad, unjust war. I was there. I, like Kerry, have no real problem with those who outright didn't go, even if they went to Canada. I do have a problem with the priveleged who crayfished out of it by pulling strings.

 

[ThePresence]

It's about doing his duty or not doing his duty, not if the war was just or not. He's claiming to be a decorated soldier and bashing Bush's National Guard service, but he apparently forgot that he threw his medals away. And he never defected, he was wounded 3 times (superficially), and the 3rd time is the charm, it got you sent home. Now ask any officer, if they had a way out if they would have left to demonstrate against the war, while their men were still serving there! That is a complete slap in the face to anyone serving. Ask the POW's how his demonstrating affected them. The guy is trying to play both sides of the issue, it's gonna backfire on him.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
It's about doing his duty or not doing his duty, not if the war was just or not. He's claiming to be a decorated soldier and bashing Bush's National Guard service, but he apparently forgot that he threw his medals away. And he never defected, he was wounded 3 times (superficially), and the 3rd time is the charm, it got you sent home. Now ask any officer, if they had a way out if they would have left to demonstrate against the war, while their men were still serving there! That is a complete slap in the face to anyone serving. Ask the POW's how his demonstrating affected them. The guy is trying to play both sides of the issue, it's gonna backfire on him.

The Demonstrations is what got them home!

 

[Ferocious]

If it weren't for courageous people like Kerry, we might still be there.

But I wish CNN, Faux news, and others would just forget about the past. Who really cares what Bush or Kerry did or didn't do many decades ago.

Let's focus on today and tomorrow and what's good for Americans today and tomorrow.

Well I can wish it anyways.

 

[Tripleshot]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: ThePresence
It's about doing his duty or not doing his duty, not if the war was just or not. He's claiming to be a decorated soldier and bashing Bush's National Guard service, but he apparently forgot that he threw his medals away. And he never defected, he was wounded 3 times (superficially), and the 3rd time is the charm, it got you sent home. Now ask any officer, if they had a way out if they would have left to demonstrate against the war, while their men were still serving there! That is a complete slap in the face to anyone serving. Ask the POW's how his demonstrating affected them. The guy is trying to play both sides of the issue, it's gonna backfire on him.

The Demonstrations is what got them home!

How soon they forget. Oh, I forgot, most here were not even born yet. What the hell would they know?

This crap about POW's being hurt because of Kerry is totally fabricated BS. ASK McCAIN! :disgust:

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Ferocious
If it weren't for courageous people like Kerry, we might still be there.

But I wish CNN, Faux news, and others would just forget about the past. Who really cares what Bush or Kerry did or didn't do many decades ago.

Let's focus on today and tomorrow and what's good for Americans today and tomorrow.

Well I can wish it anyways.

Vietnam vets agains the War gave the Anti War Movement legitimacy among mainstream America and helped bring the war to an end which brought the POWs home sooner than they would have if there was no Ant War Movement.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: Witling
It was a bad, unjust war. I was there. I, like Kerry, have no real problem with those who outright didn't go, even if they went to Canada. I do have a problem with the priveleged who crayfished out of it by pulling strings.

So you dislike Clinton?

He used family connections to delay his induction several times. Then skipped to Europe, knowing full well he would be in England when his induction finally would happen. He came back again used his families connections to make a deal to do the RoTC program at University of Arkansas. He didnt do RoTC and instead went back to England. When he first skipped off to England he was NOT a Rhodes Scholar. He dodged the draft, mainly by using family connections.

 

[digitalsm]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: Ferocious
If it weren't for courageous people like Kerry, we might still be there.

But I wish CNN, Faux news, and others would just forget about the past. Who really cares what Bush or Kerry did or didn't do many decades ago.

Let's focus on today and tomorrow and what's good for Americans today and tomorrow.

Well I can wish it anyways.

Vietnam vets agains the War gave the Anti War Movement legitimacy among mainstream America and helped bring the war to an end which brought the POWs home sooner than they would have if there was no Ant War Movement.

Yes and Kerry as a graduating Yale student(right before going to Officer School) openly spoke out about how he though the US Army should be controlled by the UN.

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
It's about doing his duty or not doing his duty, not if the war was just or not. He's claiming to be a decorated soldier and bashing Bush's National Guard service, but he apparently forgot that he threw his medals away. And he never defected, he was wounded 3 times (superficially), and the 3rd time is the charm, it got you sent home. Now ask any officer, if they had a way out if they would have left to demonstrate against the war, while their men were still serving there! That is a complete slap in the face to anyone serving. Ask the POW's how his demonstrating affected them. The guy is trying to play both sides of the issue, it's gonna backfire on him.

Demonstrating against the war is not demonstrating against your men. It is a patriotic duty to disagree and vocalize this when you see your government doing something wrong, especially if lives are being lost. Kerry was wounded superficially??? Gee I didn't know you had to be seriously wounded to be a true soldier and patriot now. Didn't seem to help Max Cleland very much.

Kerry and others like him who protested the war were the main reason that ridiculous conflict was ended and the troops and POW's got to go home.

 

[Witling]

Presence. I came back a joined Vets Against the War. I didn't feel I was betraying my friends. But then, I was just an enlisted puke. Second, we didn't "throw away" our medals. They were surrendered, accumulated, and sent to the White House. I don't know your background, but most of the VietNam Vets I've seen on this board are quite understanding of people who were opposed to the war. Many, many, came back from Viet Nam and opposed the war.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
I remember just a few years ago, it was a bad, unjust war. Now Kerry is bragging about fighting in it, and being bashed for defecting from it and heading Vietnam Veterans Against the War. WTF?

it was portrayed as a bad unjust war by those on the extreme left, with backing and sponsorship from the american communist party. who also helped VVAW, an organization co founded by kerry and hanoi jane.

it only makes sense that communists in this country would do everything they can to help the communists from north vietnam invade and take over south vietnam.

VVAW demonstartions included marching with north vietnamese and viet cong flags, at the demonstration where some veterans threw thier medals over the fence, did not throw his, but instead threw someone elses medals and pretended they were his.

you do not hear much about atrocities commited by the VC and NVA, who even this day pursue the practice of "creeping genocide" by forcibly sterilizing the montagnards(native tribesmen) and forcing them to renounce christianity. not to mention the murder rape and torture of the south vietnemese, who were invaded by the north.

 

[ThePresence]

Let me clarify. I do understand why people were against that war, but that's not what I'm talking about. I am not saying if the war is just or unjust, it's been argued to death over the years. But it was Kerry who opened the can of worms by bashing Bush's NG service. Well, he can't have it both ways. He is proud of his service now, but he sure wasn't then. No tnitsuj, you don't have to wounded to be a soldier and a patriot. But superficial wounds were a way out, not because he couldn't serve. Yes, it was a legitimate way out, but his men were still there serving. As far as the POW's go, I was listening to a talk show last night on my way home from work. I heard former POW's call up and break down as they spoke about Jane Fonda and John Kerry. Their captors played this stuff to them at full volume. It was terrible for their morale. That's all, I'm not judging anyone, it's not my place. But Kerry can't have it both ways,

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: Witling
Presence. I came back a joined Vets Against the War. I didn't feel I was betraying my friends. But then, I was just an enlisted puke. Second, we didn't "throw away" our medals. They were surrendered, accumulated, and sent to the White House. I don't know your background, but most of the VietNam Vets I've seen on this board are quite understanding of people who were opposed to the war. Many, many, came back from Viet Nam and opposed the war.

maybe you did not, but Kerry himself admitted to not throwing his medals at the april 23rd 1971 demonstration, but someone elses. where many members of VVAW DID throw thier medals.

john kerry is nothing but a hypocrite calling his fellow soldiers babykillers while being one himself.who's organization flew the flag of the enemy in a time of war.

as a veteran myself, if i ever personally meet him i will spit right in his communist wooden face and ask him how it feels to be on the recieving end...him and people like him are not even good enough to defecate on.

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
I remember just a few years ago, it was a bad, unjust war. Now Kerry is bragging about fighting in it, and being bashed for defecting from it and heading Vietnam Veterans Against the War. WTF?

it was portrayed as a bad unjust war by those on the extreme left, with backing and sponsorship from the american communist party. who also helped VVAW, an organization co founded by kerry and hanoi jane.

it only makes sense that communists in this country would do everything they can to help the communists from north vietnam invade and take over south vietnam.

VVAW demonstartions included marching with north vietnamese and viet cong flags, at the demonstration where some veterans threw thier medals over the fence, did not throw his, but instead threw someone elses medals and pretended they were his.

you do not hear much about atrocities commited by the VC and NVA, who even this day pursue the practice of "creeping genocide" by forcibly sterilizing the montagnards(native tribesmen) and forcing them to renounce christianity. not to mention the murder rape and torture of the south vietnemese, who were invaded by the north.

It was "portrayed" as a bad war? Some of us were around then, IT WAS A BAD WAR.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
I remember just a few years ago, it was a bad, unjust war. Now Kerry is bragging about fighting in it, and being bashed for defecting from it and heading Vietnam Veterans Against the War. WTF?

it was portrayed as a bad unjust war by those on the extreme left, with backing and sponsorship from the american communist party. who also helped VVAW, an organization co founded by kerry and hanoi jane.

it only makes sense that communists in this country would do everything they can to help the communists from north vietnam invade and take over south vietnam.

VVAW demonstartions included marching with north vietnamese and viet cong flags, at the demonstration where some veterans threw thier medals over the fence, did not throw his, but instead threw someone elses medals and pretended they were his.

you do not hear much about atrocities commited by the VC and NVA, who even this day pursue the practice of "creeping genocide" by forcibly sterilizing the montagnards(native tribesmen) and forcing them to renounce christianity. not to mention the murder rape and torture of the south vietnemese, who were invaded by the north.

You have abolutely no clue about history or the world political situation at the time. God, I thought that old Domino theory was put to rest years ago. Even those who went to war over it learned better. Next you will be telling us the Communist North was fighting the free South trying to deprive them of property.


Edit, that was probably too subtle for you. I am referring to the Civil War right here in the good ole USA

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
I remember just a few years ago, it was a bad, unjust war. Now Kerry is bragging about fighting in it, and being bashed for defecting from it and heading Vietnam Veterans Against the War. WTF?

it was portrayed as a bad unjust war by those on the extreme left, with backing and sponsorship from the american communist party. who also helped VVAW, an organization co founded by kerry and hanoi jane.

it only makes sense that communists in this country would do everything they can to help the communists from north vietnam invade and take over south vietnam.

VVAW demonstartions included marching with north vietnamese and viet cong flags, at the demonstration where some veterans threw thier medals over the fence, did not throw his, but instead threw someone elses medals and pretended they were his.

you do not hear much about atrocities commited by the VC and NVA, who even this day pursue the practice of "creeping genocide" by forcibly sterilizing the montagnards(native tribesmen) and forcing them to renounce christianity. not to mention the murder rape and torture of the south vietnemese, who were invaded by the north.

It was "portrayed" as a bad war? Some of us were around then, IT WAS A BAD WAR.

yes it was in many ways. if the north had not invaded the south to impose communism, there would not have been a war at all. and today the montagnyards would not be slowly exterminated.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
I remember just a few years ago, it was a bad, unjust war. Now Kerry is bragging about fighting in it, and being bashed for defecting from it and heading Vietnam Veterans Against the War. WTF?

it was portrayed as a bad unjust war by those on the extreme left, with backing and sponsorship from the american communist party. who also helped VVAW, an organization co founded by kerry and hanoi jane.

it only makes sense that communists in this country would do everything they can to help the communists from north vietnam invade and take over south vietnam.

VVAW demonstartions included marching with north vietnamese and viet cong flags, at the demonstration where some veterans threw thier medals over the fence, did not throw his, but instead threw someone elses medals and pretended they were his.

you do not hear much about atrocities commited by the VC and NVA, who even this day pursue the practice of "creeping genocide" by forcibly sterilizing the montagnards(native tribesmen) and forcing them to renounce christianity. not to mention the murder rape and torture of the south vietnemese, who were invaded by the north.

You have abolutely no clue about history or the world political situation at the time. God, I thought that old Domino theory was put to rest years ago. Even those who went to war over it learned better. Next you will be telling us the Communist North was fighting the free South trying to deprive them of property.


Edit, that was probably too subtle for you. I am referring to the Civil War right here in the good ole USA

winstonsmith you are one of the few here who actually have no clue.

i find it highly ironic that you mention "deprive them of property" as this is common communist methodology. for example in north vietnam, the communists "land reforms" in december of 1955 result in land owners being hauled before "people's tribunals." thousands are executed or sent to forced labor camps during this period of ideological cleansing by ho chi minh. when the peasents try to revolt thousands more are killed.

is that what you meant by "deprive of property"?

 

[tnitsuj]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
I remember just a few years ago, it was a bad, unjust war. Now Kerry is bragging about fighting in it, and being bashed for defecting from it and heading Vietnam Veterans Against the War. WTF?

it was portrayed as a bad unjust war by those on the extreme left, with backing and sponsorship from the american communist party. who also helped VVAW, an organization co founded by kerry and hanoi jane.

it only makes sense that communists in this country would do everything they can to help the communists from north vietnam invade and take over south vietnam.

VVAW demonstartions included marching with north vietnamese and viet cong flags, at the demonstration where some veterans threw thier medals over the fence, did not throw his, but instead threw someone elses medals and pretended they were his.

you do not hear much about atrocities commited by the VC and NVA, who even this day pursue the practice of "creeping genocide" by forcibly sterilizing the montagnards(native tribesmen) and forcing them to renounce christianity. not to mention the murder rape and torture of the south vietnemese, who were invaded by the north.

It was "portrayed" as a bad war? Some of us were around then, IT WAS A BAD WAR.

yes it was in many ways. if the north had not invaded the south to impose communism, there would not have been a war at all. and today the montagnyards would not be slowly exterminated.

If we had not reneged on our promises to Ho Chi Min and the Viet Minh after WWII and supported the French as they tried to reoccupy Vietnam thier would have been no war.

If we hadn't reneged on our promise to hold elections in 1956 (Which Ho Chi Ming would have won) there would have been no war.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
I remember just a few years ago, it was a bad, unjust war. Now Kerry is bragging about fighting in it, and being bashed for defecting from it and heading Vietnam Veterans Against the War. WTF?

it was portrayed as a bad unjust war by those on the extreme left, with backing and sponsorship from the american communist party. who also helped VVAW, an organization co founded by kerry and hanoi jane.

it only makes sense that communists in this country would do everything they can to help the communists from north vietnam invade and take over south vietnam.

VVAW demonstartions included marching with north vietnamese and viet cong flags, at the demonstration where some veterans threw thier medals over the fence, did not throw his, but instead threw someone elses medals and pretended they were his.

you do not hear much about atrocities commited by the VC and NVA, who even this day pursue the practice of "creeping genocide" by forcibly sterilizing the montagnards(native tribesmen) and forcing them to renounce christianity. not to mention the murder rape and torture of the south vietnemese, who were invaded by the north.

You have abolutely no clue about history or the world political situation at the time. God, I thought that old Domino theory was put to rest years ago. Even those who went to war over it learned better. Next you will be telling us the Communist North was fighting the free South trying to deprive them of property.


Edit, that was probably too subtle for you. I am referring to the Civil War right here in the good ole USA

winstonsmith you are one of the few here who actually have no clue.

i find it highly ironic that you mention "deprive them of property" as this is common communist methodology. for example in north vietnam, the communists "land reforms" in december of 1955 result in land owners being hauled before "people's tribunals." thousands are executed or sent to forced labor camps during this period of ideological cleansing by ho chi minh. when the peasents try to revolt thousands more are killed.

is that what you meant by "deprive of property"?

I mean you have so twisted cause and effect of the VN war, that I would not be suprised if you took the side of the "poor" Confederates who wanted to peaceably live free as they choose. That included having slaves, but that's ok, since slaves were property. If you have that perspective, I suggest you keep it under wraps. Or better, don't.

Dang, no wonder why you love Bush and Rummy and this Iraq war. It like VN all over again, except it was perpetrated by your other heros Johnson and Robert McNamara. Rummy's war. Fitting.

Your POV about VN largely died later in the war, because everyone saw it was BS. Even Mac came to realize that the North wasnt about "spreading communism". Communism was the latest excuse in a long line of regional aggressions. Simply, the North wanted to beat the South. Communism was incidental. After we pulled out the whole of Asia could have been taken over. It wasnt. The VC didn't want it. It was a stupid war fought for the wrong reasons. It was about something like the Tonkin as "clearer than truth". Damn, we hoped we would have brought up kids smarter than us, but you show we failed miserably.

Edit- Apologies to the younger generation smart enough not to swallow this snake oil.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: tnitsuj

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
I remember just a few years ago, it was a bad, unjust war. Now Kerry is bragging about fighting in it, and being bashed for defecting from it and heading Vietnam Veterans Against the War. WTF?

it was portrayed as a bad unjust war by those on the extreme left, with backing and sponsorship from the american communist party. who also helped VVAW, an organization co founded by kerry and hanoi jane.

it only makes sense that communists in this country would do everything they can to help the communists from north vietnam invade and take over south vietnam.

VVAW demonstartions included marching with north vietnamese and viet cong flags, at the demonstration where some veterans threw thier medals over the fence, did not throw his, but instead threw someone elses medals and pretended they were his.

you do not hear much about atrocities commited by the VC and NVA, who even this day pursue the practice of "creeping genocide" by forcibly sterilizing the montagnards(native tribesmen) and forcing them to renounce christianity. not to mention the murder rape and torture of the south vietnemese, who were invaded by the north.

It was "portrayed" as a bad war? Some of us were around then, IT WAS A BAD WAR.

yes it was in many ways. if the north had not invaded the south to impose communism, there would not have been a war at all. and today the montagnyards would not be slowly exterminated.

If we had not reneged on our promises to Ho Chi Min and the Viet Minh after WWII and supported the French as they tried to reoccupy Vietnam thier would have been no war.

If we hadn't reneged on our promise to hold elections in 1956 (Which Ho Chi Ming would have won) there would have been no war.

we did not support the french. you do not remember dien bien phu? you are right about the elections in 56 the majority of people in the south did not want to be part of a communist vietnam after the land masscres of 1955. i cannot say i blame them. however diem was turning out to be not much better than ho chi minh, but diem was later deposed.

 

[Shad0hawK]

Originally posted by: WinstonSmith
I mean you have so twisted cause and effect of the VN war, that I would not be suprised if you took the side of the "poor" Confederates who wanted to peaceably live free as they choose. That included having slaves, but that's ok, since slaves were property. If you have that perspective, I suggest you keep it under wraps. Or better, don't.

Dang, no wonder why you love Bush and Rummy and this Iraq war. It like VN all over again, except it was perpetrated by your other heros Johnson and Robert McNamara. Rummy's war. Fitting.

Your POV about VN largely died later in the war, because everyone saw it was BS. Even Mac came to realize that the North wasnt about "spreading communism". Communism was the latest excuse in a long line of regional aggressions. Simply, the North wanted to beat the South. Communism was incidental. After we pulled out the whole of Asia could have been taken over. It wasnt. The VC didn't want it. It was a stupid war fought for the wrong reasons. It was about something like the Tonkin as "clearer than truth". Damn, we hoped we would have brought up kids smarter than us, but you show we failed miserably.

Edit- Apologies to the younger generation smart enough not to swallow this snake oil.

and the communist alternative is better? ROFL!! your to funny smith, after spouting off then getting your clock cleaned with facts you respond with ad-hom trash.

again the "aggression" was by the NV. read a history book and learn a thing or two. and now the people there are paying the price with genocide...also KENNEDY was president when we committed to vietnam, johnson was president AFTER him.

 

[Shad0hawK]

DP

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: rbV5

Originally posted by: Shad0hawK

Originally posted by: WinkOsmosis
I remember just a few years ago, it was a bad, unjust war. Now Kerry is bragging about fighting in it, and being bashed for defecting from it and heading Vietnam Veterans Against the War. WTF?

it was portrayed as a bad unjust war by those on the extreme left, with backing and sponsorship from the american communist party. who also helped VVAW, an organization co founded by kerry and hanoi jane.

it only makes sense that communists in this country would do everything they can to help the communists from north vietnam invade and take over south vietnam.

VVAW demonstartions included marching with north vietnamese and viet cong flags, at the demonstration where some veterans threw thier medals over the fence, did not throw his, but instead threw someone elses medals and pretended they were his.

you do not hear much about atrocities commited by the VC and NVA, who even this day pursue the practice of "creeping genocide" by forcibly sterilizing the montagnards(native tribesmen) and forcing them to renounce christianity. not to mention the murder rape and torture of the south vietnemese, who were invaded by the north.

It was "portrayed" as a bad war? Some of us were around then, IT WAS A BAD WAR.

yes it was in many ways. if the north had not invaded the south to impose communism, there would not have been a war at all. and today the montagnyards would not be slowly exterminated.

Nice, I'll tell you, it turns my stomache to read that crap. Like we didn't hear enough of that communist aggressor nonsense 4 decades ago. How'd we do over there fighting the good fight in your estimation? If those damn leftist extremists hadn't gotten in the way, why we would have.........?

 

[rbV5]

also KENNEDY was president when we committed to vietnam, johnson was president AFTER him.

US involvement in Vietnam began during the Eisenhower administration .