Since 2010 Republicans have controlled most of government

[agent00f]

We both know that the land is not, in fact empty, making your accusations of intellectual dishonesty all the more ironic. Over 100 million americans live outside urban areas in your so called 'empty lands'

Now we both know for sure of your intellectually honesty given you're aware of the county populations.

Actual evidence and facts prove otherwise given that cities like Wichita and Provo-Orem make lists like Time's Top 15 cities with the most high tech jobs. (Not to mention the impressive year over year growth in general employment)

No, instead you make things up like 'the land is empty' and 'its a fact that all areas with a future ie high tech/science/bidness jobs are blue.' while the actual evidence is clearly to the contrary. I guess fact checking or correct use of absolutes is beyond you

Case in point you're also aware of how to use google to check for number of high tech jobs in just the bay area (ie a fraction of the totality of just the coasts) vs that entire 100 million rural merica. I do wonder where the companies & schools who've ever done anything worth talking about are located.

But in your defense the sticks are a victim of brain drain to places with other thinkers.

 

[imported_tajmahal]

Since 2010 the Republicans have been in control of most of the government which is why the economy is doing so great. Thanks Republicans!

 

[agent00f]

Since 2010 the Republicans have been in control of most of the government which is why the economy is doing so great. Thanks Republicans!

Just like they were all about the auto bailouts & such which still had to be pushed through the executive. Now imagine if the democrats could've done even more for that economy instead of getting increasing blocked by the epic dumbshits. Got what they deserved for saving half the good rust belt jobs, though.

And no great surprise who's taking credit for all the successes they were actively blocking. They really are the worst people around by any objective measure.

 

[Exterous]

Now we both know for sure of your intellectually honesty given you're aware of the county populations.

That was blindingly obvious already to all but the dimmest readers given that I specifically mentioned county populations in my second response - and also pointed out that those county populations growing the fastest are evenly split between R and D states

Case in point you're also aware of how to use google to check for number of high tech jobs in just the bay area (ie a fraction of the totality of just the coasts) vs that entire 100 million rural merica. I do wonder where the companies & schools who've ever done anything worth talking about are located.

So no response addressing your atrociously incorrect previous statements? Moving your goal posts around does not negate your mistakes. And you don't seem to have learned from those either given your last question

 

[Puffnstuff]

Just like they were all about the auto bailouts & such which still had to be pushed through the executive.

I completely opposed those bailouts. Ford, under the leadership of former Boeing executive Allen Mulally, was able to restructure and move forward under their own power during that time. I believe that GM and Chrysler Benz should've been allowed to crash and burn just like the automakers of old allowing new competitors to rise from their ashes. If GM needs to shrink then make them close their overseas operations and move production back home. I'm sorry to see the Holden workers lose their jobs but since its an American company better them than us.

 

[Jhhnn]

I completely opposed those bailouts. Ford, under the leadership of former Boeing executive Allen Mulally, was able to restructure and move forward under their own power during that time. I believe that GM and Chrysler Benz should've been allowed to crash and burn just like the automakers of old allowing new competitors to rise from their ashes. If GM needs to shrink then make them close their overseas operations and move production back home. I'm sorry to see the Holden workers lose their jobs but since its an American company better them than us.

Ford likely would have gone down as well because of the changed nature of the supply chain. Delphi has achieved huge horizontal integration in the parts business, near monopoly in some segments. They supply parts to everybody. If GM & Chrysler go broke, they go broke & so does everybody they supply, including Ford. They all run on leverage, on borrowed money as a way to "maximize shareholder value" & provide huge executive bonuses.

The days when each automaker was a discreet vertically integrated operation with reserves of cash & manufacturing capacity are long gone.

 

[raildogg]

Democrat or Republican, one thing the politicians always agree on is Israel. They all are going out of their way to shower Israel with kind words and promises. Hillary, Trump, Democrats and Republicans all go out of their ways to make sure Israel hears how much they love it.

Why does such a tiny country get so much attention? Why does it receive billions and billions of dollars of military weapons aid from us?

Oh right, they are the only Democracy in the Middle East. We've been hearing that for a long time now. What other excuses do you have?

 

[Puffnstuff]

Democrat or Republican, one thing the politicians always agree on is Israel. They all are going out of their way to shower Israel with kind words and promises. Hillary, Trump, Democrats and Republicans all go out of their ways to make sure Israel hears how much they love it.

Why does such a tiny country get so much attention? Why does it receive billions and billions of dollars of military weapons aid from us?

Oh right, they are the only Democracy in the Middle East. We've been hearing that for a long time now. What other excuses do you have?

IMHO they act like regional thugs and of course we run to their aid each and every time. This is one of the reasons that they are going to get Daniel's 70 weeks to straighten them out on their behavior and other things. It won't be much longer before the remaining armies of the world converge on them in an attempt to eradicate them.

 

[Jhhnn]

Since 2010 the Republicans have been in control of most of the government which is why the economy is doing so great. Thanks Republicans!

Yeh, but Trump says it's terrible. Go figure.

 

[agent00f]

I completely opposed those bailouts. Ford, under the leadership of former Boeing executive Allen Mulally, was able to restructure and move forward under their own power during that time. I believe that GM and Chrysler Benz should've been allowed to crash and burn just like the automakers of old allowing new competitors to rise from their ashes. If GM needs to shrink then make them close their overseas operations and move production back home. I'm sorry to see the Holden workers lose their jobs but since its an American company better them than us.

Ford didn't go bankrupt at the time because they were able to secure substantial loans a bit before crash, by the coincidence of being in an even more precarious position. GM & such would've probably resorted to doing the same under normal circumstances, but nobody was exactly lending after the crash.

Had GM/Chrysler crashed/burned, they probably would've taken Ford and perhaps other auto manufacturing in region with them since they share the supplier network & such.

 

[agent00f]

That was blindingly obvious already to all but the dimmest readers given that I specifically mentioned county populations in my second response - and also pointed out that those county populations growing the fastest are evenly split between R and D states

No, your primary argument was based on cardinal country count, which is trivially disingenuous. Your secondary argument was based stats non-representative (ie cherry picked) of the totality, specifically one which didn't make you look bad. Some % growth in bumf nowhere is simply not comparable to any growth in a populated area, this is trivial math that you either have trouble with or pretend to.

So no response addressing your atrociously incorrect previous statements? Moving your goal posts around does not negate your mistakes. And you don't seem to have learned from those either given your last question

My previous statement that your "all but a few counties" statement refers to counties basically empty compared to the few that actually matter is entirely correct. If you want to compared the populations of the counties in question, and let's be clear that's comparing the size of two numbers, we can certainly make a lesson in basic arithmetic for you out of it.

 

[Puffnstuff]

Had GM/Chrysler crashed/burned, they probably would've taken Ford and perhaps other auto manufacturing in region with them since they share the supplier network & such.

The parts suppliers were under pressure from the UAW to organize and were strong armed into union neutrality agreements to facilitate it. I did a research paper on the relationships for an employment law class that exposed the inner workings as the UAW is a proximate cause for many of the issues the parts suppliers face. If GM and Chrysler had been forced to restructure using their own resources it would've forced the suppliers to close plants to reduce capacity to match. This is the free market way and Allan Mulally recognizing the conditions immediately began restructuring Ford the moment he took over to address them. I personally will never buy another GM vehicle no matter what they do.

Our history is littered with the likes of Packard and Tucker and the government didn't step in to save Hostess among other employers. The steel industry received subsidizes and they still continued to decline because they didn't innovate. Globalization is here to stay and the people who depend on manufacturing sector jobs will continue to suffer the most for it just as they have since it began. It might sound cold but the harsh reality is that if you can recognize a threat then you react to it in a way that best protects your interests. If you see that you work in manufacturing and your particular sector is threatened and you have to continue to provide for yourself then you take steps like get an education so you can remove yourself from it.

 

[agent00f]

The parts suppliers were under pressure from the UAW to organize and were strong armed into union neutrality agreements to facilitate it. I did a research paper on the relationships for an employment law class that exposed the inner workings as the UAW is a proximate cause for many of the issues the parts suppliers face. If GM and Chrysler had been forced to restructure using their own resources it would've forced the suppliers to close plants to reduce capacity to match. This is the free market way and Allan Mulally recognizing the conditions immediately began restructuring Ford the moment he took over to address them. I personally will never buy another GM vehicle no matter what they do.

This doesn't the points in the post you replied to. Also, if anything chap 11 was the better deal than ford's which retained its sizable bond debt etc. Their restructuring plan was approved by the bk count in that process, and it's clearly working out much better than the chap 7 alternative.

Our history is littered with the likes of Packard and Tucker and the government didn't step in to save Hostess among other employers. The steel industry received subsidizes and they still continued to decline because they didn't innovate. Globalization is here to stay and the people who depend on manufacturing sector jobs will continue to suffer the most for it just as they have since it began. It might sound cold but the harsh reality is that if you can recognize a threat then you react to it in a way that best protects your interests. If you see that you work in manufacturing and your particular sector is threatened and you have to continue to provide for yourself then you take steps like get an education so you can remove yourself from it.

As noted GM would've financed additional debt same as Ford had there never been a crash, or at worse secured other DIP lender in chap 11 proceedings. That's because cars are a premium enough product that manufacturing them in the US isn't nearly as noncompetitive as what you're thinking of, which is why "import" makes often actually make their products here.

 

[Puffnstuff]

This doesn't the points in the post you replied to. Also, if anything chap 11 was the better deal than ford's which retained its sizable bond debt etc. Their restructuring plan was approved by the bk count in that process, and it's clearly working out much better than the chap 7 alternative.



As noted GM would've financed additional debt same as Ford had there never been a crash, or at worse secured other DIP lender in chap 11 proceedings. That's because cars are a premium enough product that manufacturing them in the US isn't nearly as noncompetitive as what you're thinking of, which is why "import" makes often actually make their products here.

I look at what happened to GM and Chrysler as their punctuated equilibrium moment. You brought up the supplier side and I responded to it using business facts. As it pertains to filing for BK you completely ignore the trust issue that ford maintained with their shareholders and stakeholders by not filing for BK in any flavor. Speaking of imports, Buick is now selling another Chinese made suv because market conditions dictated that building it there in the market with the highest sales was the best option dictated by their CBA's. Transplants will continue to be a way of life for all manufacturers when it benefits them. Look at Stihl's plant in the NE specifically for NA customers

When the unions are kept out plants and their workers can prosper. On a positive note the restructuring did force the UAW to reopen the contract at Ford and amend for needed changes which also helped them out. Having worked around former UAW members as a business manager I would not want them in my workforce either just like Honda took legal steps to exclude them from their IN plant.

 

[agent00f]

I look at what happened to GM and Chrysler as their punctuated equilibrium moment.

And what about ford which was so terrible that it needed re-fi even before these really shit companies?

You brought up the supplier side and I responded to it using business facts.

You never addressed the reality that GM/Chryler's suppliers going under would've brought down ford and possibly others here. These complex industries not only tend to be relatively fragile ecosystems, but also high competitive with what amount to GSEs elsewhere.

As it pertains to filing for BK you completely ignore the trust issue that ford maintained with their shareholders and stakeholders by not filing for BK in any flavor. Speaking of imports, Buick is now selling another Chinese made suv because market conditions dictated that building it there in the market with the highest sales was the best option dictated by their CBA's. Transplants will continue to be a way of life for all manufacturers when it benefits them. Look at Stihl's plant in the NE specifically for NA customers

When the unions are kept out plants and their workers can prosper. On a positive note the restructuring did force the UAW to reopen the contract at Ford and amend for needed changes which also helped them out. Having worked around former UAW members as a business manager I would not want them in my workforce either just like Honda took legal steps to exclude them from their IN plant.

Keeping out unions is certainly beneficial for the advantageous side in that asymmetric negotiation relationship. And I guess that must be why all of the US successful competitors elsewhere are all unionized.

For someone who's supposedly studied this issue, you sure lack perspective on assembly labor cost portion of an automobile. It's almost as if you're predisposed to believe the propaganda that moderately uncompetitive costs there are what precludes domestics from selling for a premium (ie design, reliability, image, etc) that those unionized competitors all seem to manage. In other words, those lazy antagonized line workers sure got to manage the company poorly all the way to the top.

 

[bshole]

They're going to pretend that the housing bubble & the financial crisis never happened so that they can do something like it all over again. It doesn't matter which way the economy moves because the guys at the top make money simply because it moves. The more it moves, the more they make.

It is so damn obvious. It feels like we are in a horror movie where we can all see the victim is about to do the exact thing that will spell her demise but we can't stop her from doing it.

 

[Puffnstuff]

And what about ford which was so terrible that it needed re-fi even before these really shit companies?



You never addressed the reality that GM/Chryler's suppliers going under would've brought down ford and possibly others here. These complex industries not only tend to be relatively fragile ecosystems, but also high competitive with what amount to GSEs elsewhere.



Keeping out unions is certainly beneficial for the advantageous side in that asymmetric negotiation relationship. And I guess that must be why all of the US successful competitors elsewhere are all unionized.

For someone who's supposedly studied this issue, you sure lack perspective on assembly labor cost portion of an automobile. It's almost as if you're predisposed to believe the propaganda that moderately uncompetitive costs there are what precludes domestics from selling for a premium (ie design, reliability, image, etc) that those unionized competitors all seem to manage. In other words, those lazy antagonized line workers sure got to manage the company poorly all the way to the top.

You are entitled to your opinions as am I. From a business perspective there are a multitude of obligations at work here on both the labor and management sides of the equation. In the end the workers lose when they are being subject to job control unionism hence their continuous decline in all sectors. Having been a union member before I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that I oppose the level of control that unions impose on their members in the name of a steady revenue stream for their corporate offices - yes unions are a business entity with a primary goal of self preservation.

 

[agent00f]

You are entitled to your opinions as am I. From a business perspective there are a multitude of obligations at work here on both the labor and management sides of the equation. In the end the workers lose when they are being subject to job control unionism hence their continuous decline in all sectors. Having been a union member before I can tell you without a shadow of a doubt that I oppose the level of control that unions impose on their members in the name of a steady revenue stream for their corporate offices - yes unions are a business entity with a primary goal of self preservation.

All things which continue to exist do so due to some evolutionary advantage (ie self-preservation ability) over others.

Unions for example continue to exist because it's worth banding together for collective representation against a far more powerful entity, which is why they persisted in japan and germany, whose products command premiums because they're better conceived, designed, engineered, marketed, and so on by the people who don't work on the assembly line.

The UAW is if anything a case study in how not to manage relationships with labor. Mgmt in this case decided on a completely antagonistic relationship and got what they asked for.

 

[Puffnstuff]

All things which continue to exist do so due to some evolutionary advantage (ie self-preservation ability) over others.

Even Thomas Hobbes argued that the rule of self-preservation produces a morality based upon self-interests leading people to give their allegiance to a higher power. Unionism is stronger in Western Europe and Canada than it is here in the United States as Republican lawmakers have attempted to temper the NLRA with subsequent amendments to reduce its effectiveness.

The UAW is if anything a case study in how not to manage relationships with labor. Mgmt in this case decided on a completely antagonistic relationship and got what they asked for.

 

[agent00f]

Even Thomas Hobbes argued that the rule of self-preservation produces a morality based upon self-interests leading people to give their allegiance to a higher power.

Generally speaking better social cohesion is what got humans to where we are today.

 

[peonyu]

Donald Trump is really more of a 3rd party candidate, his picks for his cabinet reflect that. Im one of the few people who seem to realize that, but he is probably more moderate than what most people would admit. He has some very liberal views, and he has some very "far right" views like building a wall [if he sticks to that and i hope he does]. As long as people like Mitt Romney and the Bushes are not brought into his cabinet i am fine, and i am fine with him building his team the way he is doing it so far - he can even bring in a liberal here or there if they are qualified.

I dont expect a classical Republican government from him and most people shouldnt either.

 

[Jhhnn]

Republican lawmakers have attempted to temper the NLRA with subsequent amendments to reduce its effectiveness.

Temper? More like Neuter. Trump's appointments to the NLRB will be telling.

 

[agent00f]

Donald Trump is really more of a 3rd party candidate, his picks for his cabinet reflect that. Im one of the few people who seem to realize that, but he is probably more moderate than what most people would admit. He has some very liberal views, and he has some very "far right" views like building a wall [if he sticks to that and i hope he does]. As long as people like Mitt Romney and the Bushes are not brought into his cabinet i am fine, and i am fine with him building his team the way he is doing it so far - he can even bring in a liberal here or there if they are qualified.

I dont expect a classical Republican government from him and most people shouldnt either.

That's true enough, classical Republicans aren't complete fascists, but it's clear enough they love them nonetheless.

 

[Jhhnn]

I dont expect a classical Republican government from him and most people shouldnt either.

I think we'll see GWB 2.0 on steroids & meth.