silent daw build - seeking critiques from the geeks

[fiyah]

Hello all,

I am new here and deeply impressed with the accumulated knowledge and spirit of curiosity and collaboration that exists in these forums. I'm very glad to participate in my noobish manner.

I am building a silent-(ish) pc for digital audio production and graphic design w photo post-production, and find I'm drawn to items that are specifically marketed to gamers I need to figure out if I'm simply being seduced by Power and Specs or if some of these items are actually going to help me somehow in my quest for future-proof bomb-ass production.

My budget is foolish (under 3.5k) but I really want to get a good solid system started. It is my first pc build Since I'm not specifically gaming on PC, I won't overclock this rig. I want it stable and fast from the get go, though I'm aware I can safely and easily overclock later. I might if my production flow demands it.

I really want to hear some criticism of my planned assembly. This is my first build. I want it to last - though I expect to change the MB and CPU in a couple years, and add a couple more HDs. But for now...


Here are my currently designated specs:

SILVERSTONE Fortress Series FT02B-WRI Black/Red Aluminum / Steel Computer Case

ASUS Rampage III Extreme LGA 1366 Intel X58 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard

INTEL Core i7-930 Bloomfield 2.8GHz 4 x 256KB L2 Cache 8MB L3 Cache LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601930

PROLIMATECH Megahalems Rev.B CPU Cooler

COOLER MASTER Silent Pro RS850-AMBAJ3-US 850W ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V v2.92 SLI Ready 80 PLUS BRONZE Certified Modular Active PFC Power Supply

ASUS Xonar Essence STX PCI-Express x1 Sound Card

XFX HD-597A-CNB9 Radeon HD 5970 Black Edition 2GB 512 (256 x 2)-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card

ARCTIC COOLING Accelero Xtreme 5970 VGA Cooler for ATI 5970 Video Card

KINGSTONHyperX 12GB (3 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) XMP Desktop Memory Model KHX1600C9D3K3/12GX

CRUCIAL RealSSD C300 CTFDDAC256MAG-1G1 2.5" 256GB SATA III MLC Internal Solid State Drive (SSD) - [primary OS and apps drive]

2x WESTERN DIGITAL Caviar Black WD10000LSRTL 1TB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Hard Drive - [1 for samples and plug-ins, and photos; 1 for back-up]

ASUS U3S6 2x USB 3.0 & 2x SATA 6Gb/s PCI-Express x4 Controller


My concerns about this rig are primarily about the SATA 3 modules, by Marvell, of which most esteemed reviewers seem to think is junk; and also, the SSD/HDD config. for my purposes (not sure if the storage config. is optimal for daw rig.) If anyone can comment on these aspects also, I would be grateful.

Thanks for thinking, geeks.

 

[JSt0rm]

double

 

[JSt0rm]

first off welcome.

why are you picking that sound card and videocard for a daw? What software do you plan on using?

 

[fiyah]

Thanks for the welcoming.

The sound card will give me great output from a spare PCIe slot, and gives me the minimal input options necessary for recording - though I admit I haven't thought this through completely. Anyway, the alternative as I see it, Claro Halo series, has too many long outstanding driver issues as to be considered unworthy. Creative Labs is not even an option, considering their skewed profit vs quality motives.

As for the GPU, I admit I would at least like to have the option to game on this rig. I'm a PS3 console gamer, but feel limited in my gaming options by their f**ked up licensing strategies. I won't go MS XBx, so perhaps PC is a future option. Though my priorities with this rig are primarily DAW (Reaper, Ableton, lots of NI and perhaps Cubase in future, with Adobe CS5 Master installed on primary) - the visual aspects of my requirements adds to the pressure for a future-strong graphics card.

Please advise if my line of thinking isn't quite clearing some hurtles.

Thanks!

 

[Blain]

You may consider the M-Audio Delta 1010LT.
There are Windows 7 32-bit and 64-bit drivers for it.

The Asus MB you have listed already has ywo USB 3.0 ports.
Are you really going to be using more than two USB 3.0 storage devices, that would require the additional Asus USB 3.0 card?
Storage devices are the only things where USB 3.0 has a performance edge over the standard USB 2.0.

 

[Cerb]

http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/
Go there. Now.

In addition, though...

That's an awfully expensive, feature-filled mobo, and you don't look to be planning to use any of that stuff that makes it extra expensive. A P6X58D-E, FI, is only $240, and has enough SATAs, USB 3, 2 PCI-e 16x slots, lacking only in back panel connectors. The P6TD, at $260 before MIR, has back panel stuff taken care of, lacking only in USB 3, which is something you can get a card for. I'd get the P6X58D-E, and throw on a USB 3 card, if it ended up being needed at some point in the future.

...and that's all assuming you really need the 1366 socket.


5970: NO. Too many watts to cool in such a small space. Just don't do it. Future-proofing video cards is foolish to begin with, but future-proofing by getting one those fire breathing things, and then asking about making a silent build? No, no, no, no, no.

Since you have the budget, once you ditch the 5970, what about a Seasonic PSU, like the X-650, or S12D/M12D 750?

Finally, you're lacking fans. The case may come with some, but you could certainly do better, and your CPU cooler will need one. I'm a bit out of the loop, there, but it seems the Scythe Slipstreams are still where it's at. Get PWM ones, and some splitters, and you can control them with Speedfan.

 

[elconejito]

+1 on the forums at silentpcreview in regards to keeping this rig quiet. They'll have really good advice on the fans and case.

+1 on NOOOOOO to the 5970. Way overkill. Especially if you're not hard-core gaming on this rig. And even if you only game occasionally, it will be heating up the inside of your case, all the time... That thing sucks a lot of power, which means it's hot, which means it will take noise (fans) to cool it off. Depending on your screen resolution, you can easily get away with a 5770 which will have WAY lower power requirements and is a ton cheaper to boot. I'm not familiar with the audio software, but the only Adobe software that really takes advantage of a heavy-duty GPU is Premiere, and then only with the priciest of the pricey Nvidia CUDA enabled cards. All other GPU-enabled features (Photoshop, I'm looking at you) run in OpenGL and don't require much horsepower.

I'd also look at another PSU. Nothing against CoolerMaster, I guess, but SeaSonic, Corsair, PCP&C, Antec are all names I'd look at before them.

I think you're on the right track with a 1366 board. Dump as much RAM into it as you can.

And don't forget about having a backup solution.

 

[mfenn]

If this is truly a workstation, you should be looking at Dell or HP. They have plenty of options in your price range and all you would need to do is drop in your preferred sound card.

 

[Davidh373]

Alright, I'm going to say that 3.5k is rediculous for a budget. spend 1.5k and save for upgrades/ buy needed software.

1. Why do you need a 6GB/S controller?

2. Why are you spending $230 on a case?

3. Specifically what software are you running?

4. Why are you spending over $700 on your graphics card?

This is a very expensive system (the video card and the case are especially ridiculous for audio and what right now seems like light graphics work)

This is probably the only situation where I would recommend a sound card, but you'll have to consult others for what kind.

12GB is way overkill unless you are editing 4K video or working with huge .raw files in photoshop. 6GB will suit you fine.

The X58 platform may be overkill, if you only have light photoshop and design work to do it isn't all too necessary.

If your design work is light enough, you'll only need:

i7 870 (maybe even an i5?)

LGA 1156 motherboard

NVidia 460

6GB DDR3 1333

Crucial RealSSD 2.5"

1TB Caviar Black X2

Sound Card

Corsair 650TX

 

[oynaz]

OP, you are making the classic mistake of DAW newbies: Overkill.

Bear in mind that a netbook will be able to run your DAW if you are good a little handy with the DAWs Freeze function.

A more powerful machine will be nice if you use a lot of effects and virtual instruments, but there is no reason to overkill. Spend $1000-$1500 on your DAW, and spend the remaining $2000 on microphones, preamps a sound card, and perhaps some software effects and instruments. This will give you much better value for money.

To that end:

CPU: i5 or Phenom II will run circles around DAW software. If you plan on heavy use of VSTs, an i7 might be worthwile.
RAM 6 Gb is plenty. 4 would probably be OK.
HDD: Get 2 disks. One system drive, and a 7200 RPM SATA drive for recording to. You might want to pick up some sort of backup drive as well, an external USB or eSATA drive, for instance.
Video Card: Get a lower end gaming card. They are cheap and quiet, and can run most games just fine. I am not an expert, but an 3830, perhaps?
PSU: Don't overkill. A quality ~450 watter is fine.
Case: Get a nice case with acoustic dampening.
Soundcard: Forget Asus and Creative. Look to M-Audio, Infrasoniq and Juli@ for PCI cards, or consider an external Firewire card. I have an M-Audio Delta 44 myself - a very nice card.

 

[mfenn]

OP, you are making the classic mistake of DAW newbies: Overkill.

Bear in mind that a netbook will be able to run your DAW if you are good a little handy with the DAWs Freeze function.

A more powerful machine will be nice if you use a lot of effects and virtual instruments, but there is no reason to overkill. Spend $1000-$1500 on your DAW, and spend the remaining $2000 on microphones, preamps a sound card, and perhaps some software effects and instruments. This will give you much better value for money.

To that end:

CPU: i5 or Phenom II will run circles around DAW software. If you plan on heavy use of VSTs, an i7 might be worthwile.
RAM 6 Gb is plenty. 4 would probably be OK.
HDD: Get 2 disks. One system drive, and a 7200 RPM SATA drive for recording to. You might want to pick up some sort of backup drive as well, an external USB or eSATA drive, for instance.
Video Card: Get a lower end gaming card. They are cheap and quiet, and can run most games just fine. I am not an expert, but an 5770, perhaps?
PSU: Don't overkill. A quality ~450 watter is fine.
Case: Get a nice case with acoustic dampening.
Soundcard: Forget Asus and Creative. Look to M-Audio, Infrasoniq and Juli@ for PCI cards, or consider an external Firewire card. I have an M-Audio Delta 44 myself - a very nice card.

Fixed and :thumbsup:

 

[Cerb]

Better yet, a 5750, as there are at least two widely available passive models in the US.

 

[lsv]

You're doing audio production and video editing. Get a real sound card with ASIO support and low latency...

http://www.moogaudio.com/focusrite-saffire-6-usb-p-2915.html

 

[oynaz]

You're doing audio production and video editing. Get a real sound card with ASIO support and low latency...

http://www.moogaudio.com/focusrite-saffire-6-usb-p-2915.html

Considering his budget and the fact that he wants a desktop, I would get a Firewire or PCI card instead. Don't get me wrong, Focusrite Sapphire is a great card, but USB cards cannot keep up with the performance of Firewire and especially PCI cards.

I can see that Focusrite's Sapphire Pro line is available Moog Audio. As are Apogee's PCI cards. These would be better bets.

If you are unsure of which sound card to get, consider getting one of the lower end M-Audio cards. They are cheapish but good, and have very good resale value if you decide to upgrade.

 

[Arglebargle]

I agree with the 'ditch the 5970' advice. Extra heat and sound and unneeded possible complications. For your sound IO, do a lot of extra research.

If you are doing very sample-heavy audio production, stay with the 12GB. The downside of that is the expense of the memory, but it will help if you can afford it. Stay with that and the 1366 mb, it does seem to help with throughput. The Intel high end cpus ($200 and over, say) are better for audio than their equivalent AMD pieces.

An SSD is going to be really good for startup time, but will not be as impressive in recording, playback, etc. Still, if you can go for it, it's nice. And do check out silentPCreview and other focused sites. You might want to peruse some of the info on Sound on Sound.

http://www.soundonsound.com/forum/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=PCMus

 

[lsv]

Considering his budget and the fact that he wants a desktop, I would get a Firewire or PCI card instead. Don't get me wrong, Focusrite Sapphire is a great card, but USB cards cannot keep up with the performance of Firewire and especially PCI cards.

I can see that Focusrite's Sapphire Pro line is available Moog Audio. As are Apogee's PCI cards. These would be better bets.

If you are unsure of which sound card to get, consider getting one of the lower end M-Audio cards. They are cheapish but good, and have very good resale value if you decide to upgrade.

Firewire and USB 2.0 will get you the same bandwidth... PCIE 1x won't be much better. Even lots of data out won't be affected since the mixing is done by the DAW.

Go Firewire if you need to but why PCIE? It's the same thing and you can't use it on a laptop later...

 

[lambchops511]

i recommend the GTX 460 1 GiB... very silient (Y)

 

[oynaz]

Firewire and USB 2.0 will get you the same bandwidth... PCIE 1x won't be much better. Even lots of data out won't be affected since the mixing is done by the DAW.

Go Firewire if you need to but why PCIE? It's the same thing and you can't use it on a laptop later...

It's not a question of bandwidth, but a question of stability and latency. In my experience, Firewire does better at both. Granted, the reason might be that the better cards tend to be Firewire, but that does not change things from the end-user perspective.

I am not suggesting PCIE, but PCI. The selection of cards for PCIE is very low.
The downside of PCI is the inability to use it with a laptop, as you point out. However, PCI cards have 3 things speaking for them: Price, latency and noise.
First, PCI cards give the best sound quality for the money. Second, even cheapish PCI cards have very low latency. A ~$100 card will allow you to reach the magic 3ms limit, and you won't get that with similarly priced external cards (and it is hard to reach at all). Third, PCI cards are nestled snugly in their (good quality, important!) case, which means that the noise, interference and other electrical problems experienced with external cards are irrelevant. Even a mediocre PCI card is for practical purposes noiseless, and noiseless 24-bit recordings are your friend

But ultimately it's a tradeoff. The mobility of external cards vs. the advantages of PCI cards.

 

[mikeford]

As smart as everybody is here, if you are building a DAW, go to a DAW forum.

 

[oynaz]

Musicians tend to be notoriously bad at the more geeky computer stuff (case in point: The overpriced Frost Audio Computers). He might find some good advice regarding choice of sound card, software and recording equipment. I doubt he will find anyplace with a more knowledgeable crowd regarding choice of computer hardware than here.

 

[lsv]

It's not a question of bandwidth, but a question of stability and latency. In my experience, Firewire does better at both. Granted, the reason might be that the better cards tend to be Firewire, but that does not change things from the end-user perspective.

I am not suggesting PCIE, but PCI. The selection of cards for PCIE is very low.
The downside of PCI is the inability to use it with a laptop, as you point out. However, PCI cards have 3 things speaking for them: Price, latency and noise.
First, PCI cards give the best sound quality for the money. Second, even cheapish PCI cards have very low latency. A ~$100 card will allow you to reach the magic 3ms limit, and you won't get that with similarly priced external cards (and it is hard to reach at all). Third, PCI cards are nestled snugly in their (good quality, important!) case, which means that the noise, interference and other electrical problems experienced with external cards are irrelevant. Even a mediocre PCI card is for practical purposes noiseless, and noiseless 24-bit recordings are your friend

But ultimately it's a tradeoff. The mobility of external cards vs. the advantages of PCI cards.

PCI is useless as it 'can' pick up current leakage from other components of the mobo.

PCIE does not have this problem.

There's no inherited 'latency' as both USB and Firewire have enough bandwidth for a mixed signal.

When you set buffer size to 64 samples you are lowering the latency of the host but this does not have any affect on the other two factors - the audio interface and the plugins or DAW. There's zero difference in how the card is connected as long as enough bandwidth is available.

/thread hijacking is fun

/edit - before i get nerd raged, I use both firewire and usb in my work. some cards are only firewire, some are both and some are only USB. There's no difference in what interface the card uses to achieve low latency round trips, the important part is the host computer and the audio device used. The Motu Ultralite comes to mind as the best example of a great all around same latency USB+Firewire external sound card

 

[mikeford]

What the DAW guys are usually straight up about is what does and does not work, as opposed to geeks who may be too influenced with specs. Gotta balance the yin and yang.

 

[mfenn]

What the DAW guys are usually straight up about is what does and does not work, as opposed to geeks who may be too influenced with specs. Gotta balance the yin and yang.

Until they start talking about the woo...

 

[Davidh373]

What the DAW guys are usually straight up about is what does and does not work, as opposed to geeks who may be too influenced with specs. Gotta balance the yin and yang.

That's what we are about too. I would never advise someone getting something they don't need unless they are already fully aware they don't need it and couldn't care less about price. for example, when someone posts "Holy mother of all $6000 builds batman, I need advice now!" I'll totally say, "well, you don't really need that but you obviously want it, so here are the same basic parts for a little less money, other than that go for it." In this case most people (you will notice) advised him to get a less expensive, and more reasonable system. People come here because a lot of us know what is going on. There are exceptions, but hey, nowhere can be perfect.

 

[oynaz]

PCI is useless as it 'can' pick up current leakage from other components of the mobo.

PCI cards are not useless. That's an absurd claim. Current leakage can be filtered.

Do you know why current voltage does not affect PCI-E cards?

There's no difference in what interface the card uses to achieve low latency round trips, the important part is the host computer and the audio device used.

That's assuming you have unlimited funds. At a given price point, PCI gives you better latency, sound quality and overall performance.

There's no inherited 'latency' as both USB and Firewire have enough bandwidth for a mixed signal.

I do not understand. Do you mean "inherent"? I am not trying to be a spelling nazi, but I am not a native English speaker, and I do not want to make a wrong assumption.

I use both firewire and usb in my work. some cards are only firewire, some are both and some are only USB.

Can you make some recommendations to the OP in addition to the Ultralite?