Silent athlon rig, a plan.

[FishTankX]

Allright, folks, here's my idea. To create a fanless (Until needed) Athlon rig...

I was planning to do this.

KG7 RAID with AthlonXP 2100+ multipler5 FSB133 and severley undervolted to boot. PAL8045 with nidec blower attached, using Digidoc to turn on Nidec blower when heatsink temp exceeds 55C.

2 gigs of RAM (4X registered 512)

Nforce rig, with gigantic northbridge cooler on Northbridge (Passive cooling for 415D, planning to use Intel stock heatsink Arctic silver thermal epoxied on)

7 volted 250 watt LA1'd powersupply

G450DH display card

Delta 44 (DeathKoba will recognize that soundcard..)

2 Nidec blowers in top free PCI slots (Delta44 at bottom) doing Exhaust when case temp exceeds 40C.

Baracuda ATAIV 80 gig (Ofcourse. )

Now, who thinks this computer will survive 24 hours without overheating? Or better yet, run 24/7 without overheating? My goal is to get this rig to the point where you could *not* hear it on *any* of the mic pickups in the room.


Update:I'm creating a new, updated thread with a new plan. Stay tuned.

 

[Goosemaster]

If you use water cooling then there is no problem......id like to see just how LOUD those blowers are...could be spoilers

 

[Hendrik]

I think you'd be better off using some very quiet fans, like Pabst fans, on the CPU heatsink and to cool the case. The 8cm ones generate less than 15 dba noise. Does the PSU you're planning to use have a fan in it? If so, you can easily replace it with a Pabst one too.

You will still be able to hear the system, but probably more because of the HD than the fans; I doubt, though, that the microphones would pick up the computer noises.

 

[BD231]

You can't get any Athlon rig near silent unless you cripple it like your going to do, and even then your chances are slim. Performance equals heat these days, you computer will be very slow but I would say you might be able to pull it off. Kind of defeats the purpose of going AMD though if you ask me. Might as well get a 1ghz Celeron on a .13 micron core or something.

 

[oldfart]

You be better off with a PIII/Celeron Tualatin or a P4 NW for a fanless/quiet/silent system. A PIII-S or Tualatin can be undervolted to ~ 1.1 - 1.25 Vcore @ stock speeds. That is the ideal CPU for a fanless setup.

 

[Huma]

going with a high speed AMD is the wrong way to go for a fanless system.

I run my tbird @ 1.26ghz (1.7v) with an alpha 8045 and a 80mm panaflo L1A, L1A in my powerman 250w psu, L1A exhaust, and one last L1A blowing across my geforce2 ti.

the chipset and video card fans are unplugged. The system is very quiet, but I don't think I'd dare run it fanless.

if you want fanless, tualatin seems like the right call.

 

[Shide1]

This is not fanless, but it is very quiet. I have built this system for several people.

Fong Kai 320 Case
92mm adda undervolted to 7v (This is absolutely silent)
Athlon xp 1800+ alpha pal8045 w/panaflo 22db(idles at 39), or with a pabst 14db(idles about 45)(the papst is also absolutely)
antec 400W (replaced with panaflo)
Seagate hard drive (these are very quiet)

 

[FishTankX]

Okay, please note a few things here.

First of all, the nidec blowers are only schedueled to come on when the case temperature exceeds 40C or the heatsink temperature exceeds 55C. Thus, the Digidoc five. Using 3 pin to 4 pin converters here..

Second of all, please note I am not going to use a Via northbridge/southbridge combo in this machine. The i815EPT chipset is crippled to only support 512 megs of RAM and the SiS chipset i'm not sure I want to use... and i'm not sure if ALi makes a tualatin compatible chipset that has AGP either.

And note the RAM amount in this system. 2 gigs! I dunno if any mobos supporting the Tualatin will have the undervolting features or have the ability to underclock, like I know the KG7 RAID does, and have the memory capacity to boot.

Goosemaster:How silent is a pump anyways?

Noteelta 44 card is a professional recording card. There can be absolutley no fannoise/pump noise coming into these recordings. The recordings are gonna be done as the same room as the computer.

Now that you guys know all of this.. care to give me some updated opinions?

I have no trouble believing a PAL8045 could run an AthlonXP 733 (Severley undervolted!!) without a fan for 5 hours, and the nidec blowers are just to keep anything from getting damaged or screwy.

 

[joohang]

Speaking from experience, I suggest you go watercooling.

And get a Seagate Barracuda for HDs. Or store the main chassis inside a large closet with adequate cooling on the "hot" parts. And run a long BNC cable and USB extensions for monitor and keyboard/mouse/CD-ROM, etc.

 

[oldfart]

<< Second of all, please note I am not going to use a Via northbridge/southbridge combo in this machine >>


Good idea


<< The i815EPT chipset is crippled to only support 512 megs of RAM
And note the RAM amount in this system. 2 gigs! I >>


Why so much ram?


<< Noteelta 44 card is a professional recording card. There can be absolutley no fannoise/pump noise coming into these recordings. The recordings are gonna be done as the same room as the computer. >>


I built a PC for a friend last Christmas using a Delta 44. They have a little recording studio they setup. The system was a Tualeron 1.2, 512 meg ram, Intel 815 mobo. It works flawlessly. It barely ever uses any of the CPU capacity. I'm not a musician, but the guy who has it is. He is thrilled with it.


<< I dunno if any mobos supporting the Tualatin will have the undervolting features or have the ability to underclock >>


Abit ST6 can underclock/undervolt. Gigabyte GA6OXET can undervolt very well and underclock so-so.

 

[FishTankX]

Old fart:24/96 audio eats up voracious amounts of memory if you tell it to keep it in memory. To the tune of 500K a second. Or 30 megs a minute. Or almost 2 gigs an hour. Record multiple streams (4 streams) of 24/96 audio and you're up to 2 megs a second! See how it adds up? My goal is to allow the user of this system to record 24/96 audio, 4 streams of it, into RAM. Possibly stereo. You have no idea about what you just said, when saying "Why so much RAM?" . Think about it, 2 megs a second, 120 megs a minute, this thing will eat all the RAM you throw at it. This is to avoid having to go 15K scsi raid just to keep up. (note:Nix i815EPT. No way. Now how. For this application I think the 512MB limit is highly extreme. I wouldn't outfit a quad channel 24/96 rig with only 512 if somebody held me at gunpoint.

My friend told me Pumps could be sorta loud and this whump whump sound on any of the recordings would sorta spoil it... I thought about it later and thought of using a radiator from a ford or something and hooking Powersupply, CPU, video card, etc... all up to the water cooler but that would put too much stress on the pump.

Now, Oldfart, does my fanless Athlon project make more sense? no Via, I trust AMD chipsets, 2 gigs of RAM, fan on CPU or exhaust only come on when hitting a certian temperature point, even Powersupply is an L1A and it's undervolted, CPU is undervolted and underclocked to 733, is this all starting to come together in your head? 450DH is fanless, by the way. Either that or 550DH. Dual monitors would help with visualization.

 

[oldfart]

I wont pretend to know anything about mixing music and the HW requirements. I can tell you that the setup that I spoke of is working perfectly for what they use it for. Your requirements are apparently different. What I question, is if you are looking to build a quiet/fanless system, why use one of the hottest running CPU's available on the market (XP 2100+)? How about a P4A NW? Still .13u, lower power requirements, ram capacity is in the range of what you need.

 

[FishTankX]

Old fartbviously my thoguhts aren't comming clear here, so i'll try to clarify them.


AthlonXP=Unlockable=Underclockable (AthlonXP 2100+ at 733/500 if it can't do 733 fanless or maybe a tad higher at 1.3 volts or less or so. With the PAL8045 can handle)
P4 northwood=locked=Very hard to underclock. Let's see *you* try and get a northwood running around the 700MHZ range needed for fanless operation in such extreme conditions (only fan is 7 volted L1A.) (BTW, not meant to be a challange or an insult to you or intel) The closets thing would be to allow a 1.6A strap on a PAL8490T or something and let it throttle, which doesn't seem too atractive to me. And it's pretty frikkin hard to undervolt a northwood, wouldn't you agree? Locked multiplier sucks!

Goal is no fans except PSU fan.

I want this thing to be transparent to all recording in a padded, silent room. No northwood will do that. Infact, in this setup, my biggest worry is the whirling baracuda ATAIV. I'm afraid it'll show up on the recording. Since the only fan in there is a L1A running at 7 volts.

Now maybe you'll see the logic of choosing the Athlon platform, eh?

 

[ProviaFan]

I think you should have pipes running to a refridgerated chiller in a remote location (other room) and water cool that way. And btw, if you do decide to forgo the water cooling (which would let you run that proc at full speed) and run at an underclocked speed, I think your system may be inadequate for editing the audio you capture (based on my experience in editing single-channel stereo 16/48 audio on an 800Mhz Duron processor). And, if you plan to transfer that stuff to another system for editing (which is what I suppose you want to do), you might want to look into gigabit ethernet so you won't wait all night to transfer an hour's worth of audio.

 

[oldfart]

Ahhh...Ok I'm getting it now (I can be pretty thick). Yes, underclocked, you will have a much better shot. Why use a 2100+? If you are unlocking/underclocking, couldn't you do the same with a less $$ CPU like a 1600+ or even use a Duron? As far as undervolting a NW, it depends on the Mobo. Mine will only let me go down to 1.4. Others?? Dont know.

 

[BD231]

Via makes a Tualatin chipset that supports up to 1.5gigs of ram, have one myself and it's just as stable as the i815 I had. Whatever you do dont go Duron, they still run on a .25m core like the T-Birds.

 

[ProviaFan]

<< Ahhh...Ok I'm getting it now (I can be pretty thick). Yes, underclocked, you will have a much better shot. Why use a 2100+? If you are unlocking/underclocking, couldn't you do the same with a less $$ CPU like a 1600+ or even use a Duron? As far as undervolting a NW, it depends on the Mobo. Mine will only let me go down to 1.4. Others?? Dont know. >>


Don't use a Duron, since they are based on an older core that runs hotter at 800MHz than an Athlon XP would run at 1600MHz. (afaik)

 

[MWWInc]

Yeah, just put the comp in the hall and get some long cords.

But seriously, you could get a P4 with a SiS645 mobo. The stock P4 HSF is super-quiet, and you can always change the fan out if you want dead silence. I don't think you'd need to worry about underclocking even with a low CFM fan. And MSI 645 Ultra333 allows up to 3GB of DDR-SDRAM.

 

[joohang]

<< Via makes a Tualatin chipset that supports up to 1.5gigs of ram, have one myself and it's just as stable as the i815 I had. Whatever you do dont go Duron, they still run on a .25m core like the T-Birds. >>


No, all Durons are based on .18µ.

Duron 600~950 are Spitfire (Thunderbird derivation) and 1 GHz+ are Morgan (Palomino derivation). They are both .18µ.

Edit: Also, Durons generally run cooler than equivalently clocked Athlons and use lower voltages, IIRC.

 

[SexyK]

I really think it's going to be very hard for you to get clean recordings if the mics are in the same room as the computer, no matter what. You could probably get it pretty good, but there will always be background noise involved, i'd imagine mostly from the HD. I have the 'Cuda 4's in my box, and they are damn quiet, but i really think they would leave a hiss on any recording made with a high-quality mic. I'd definitely reccomend trying to get a closet or something to put the computer in and run it out of there. It's the only way you'll get truly clean recordings.

Kramer

 

[FishTankX]

Eh, Old fart, as for getting the 2100+ it's all about the matter of getting the superior CPU core, as the lower voltage you go, the more the superior CPU core will help you out when undervolting. By that I mean maximum frequency headroom at stock voltagte. The 2100+ would beat the crap outa a 1600+ any day. Plus with 2 gigs of RAM the price of the CPU is pretty insignificant, wouldn't you say? One of these 512 meg sticks costs as much as the price difference between the 1600+ and the 2100+, so I just say have a better chance of running fanless. 500/733 is plenty for just recording audio. Editing it.. well.. read on.

I've got a few tricks up my sleves. As for that Jliechty (Ack, misspelled, i'm in a rush) said, the Nidec's will kick in when Heatsink temp hits 55C. Some monior modifications on the digidoc will allow the nidec's to be always on at full speed and that would allow me to run the CPU at full speed when not recording(Reboot, kick up voltage, kick up multiplier back to normal). When not recording, my friend won't give a rats butt about the noise so when the recording is done kick in the dual nidec's (20CFM each, and they're almost dead silent!!) sitting on the CPU HS/F (Nidec's are also very thin for fans, they're vertical not horizontal and thus allow better heat disipitation from the heatsink since they're not blocking airflow which is a prime concern when running fanless) and i'm running the nidec blower programed to kick in at such and such temperature on 7 volts and I believe a 7 volted nidec blower (Squirrel cage blower for those of you who haven't seen 'em) which run somewhere around 22DB when running at full blast 12 volts would be pretty much inaudiable and would cool the CPU back down to safe temperatures if the heatsink ever gets too hot during recording.




Another more exotic sollution would be to make a case pannel out of copper and silver solder on copper plates to turn the case pannel into a giant heatsink (With arguably pretty bad heat transfer capabilities because of the solder, I know) and then run heat pipes to the case panel so you'd essentially have a *HUGE* surface area to expel heat with but I think that's getting into the realm of exotic cooling there..

It sure would be fun though!
Dude1: Dude, I just got my AthlonXP 2100+ to run fanless!
Dude2: What kind heatsink did you use?
Dude1: ohh, only my case pannel with copper fins built into it
Dude2: You what?!!?!?!?
Dude1: oh yeah, I ran a heatpipe from the heatplate on the processor to the case pannel, in effect turning my entire case panel into a heatsink!
Dude2: OMG!!:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q:Q

Bdog-First of all, Via chipsets have certian "Issues" with professional audio cards. I know the chance of this happening is 50/50 but when doing quad channel 24/96 recording it's not a good idea.

MWWinc:You wanna run the microphone cord all the way out from the hall? Not good idea...

To all:I've considered watercooling but i've decided that a pump would be louder than a 7 volted LA1 (which is nearly impossible to hear...) and thus will be more transparent on the recording.

BTW, anyone notice how close the poll is?

It's sorta an oxy moron though, isn't it? Fanless Athlon?

Then again, the athlon classic's could run fanless... hmmm....

What do you think of the case pannel heatsink idea? Surely whoops a PAL8045 on surface area if you used 1 foot tall fins (Maybe 20 of 'em) on your case panel and made your case panel out of copper. Then again, the whole thing might cost 300$!! :Q:Q

 

[FishTankX]

SexyK:I'm gonna use a silent drive enclosure on the Baracuda ATAIV. That should get the noise from that down to near nothing.... plus sound proofing all around the case. As in that sound deading mat.Either that or I'm gonna listerally enclose the harddrive in a giant heat spreader (The size the harddrive!! :Q:Q)Then enclose the whole caboodle in a sound deadening matt foam thingey.

 

[BD231]

Edit: Also, Durons generally run cooler than equivalently clocked Athlons and use lower voltages, IIRC.

Not by much, either way they run very hot for the performance they offer.

 

[LoTecha]

edit: n/m. Question was already answered

 

[yellowperil]

Re: RAM. I'm not an expert but I think 24/96 recording with 512MB RAM is fine. In some other home recording forums I've visited, a lot of people have gotten by with even 256MB. I've worked with 8 tracks at a time without any problems with an Audiophile 2496 and 512MB Crucial DDR. I think the real bottleneck is hard drive speed. Above a certain # of 24/96 tracks you may have to go SCSI. But even if you have a lot, you can always bounce a couple tracks, apply effects destructively, etc. to free up resources.

Noise is definitely a problem with my rig, so I move my mics into the bathroom to record . I ordered a cheap pair of wireless headphones for monitoring while playing.