Silence - Decoupling the Pump

[Tweakin]

So I had this thought...in the quest to reach silence, I need to isolate my pump as a final measure. I can place it on some soft foam or a open-cell sponge, but that is not aesthetically pleasing, and the pump (DDC Variant) will not receive adequate cooling.

So I'm sitting here playing with some rubber bands trying to configure a "cradle" fount to isolate the pump from the case, and it hits me....

I need to find some semi-rigid tubing of small diameter that could attach to a stud, approx. #4-6 size ID. This would allow me to install studs in the bottom of the pump, and attach the pump to the tubing. The other end of the tubing would be attached to the case in the same fashion, except using screws.

This should totally isolate the pumps vibration from the case, while keeping 2" or so of space for air to pass under the pump and cool it. I'm really trying to create an almost "silent" system.

Am I crazy with this idea?

 

[BonzaiDuck]

So I had this thought...in the quest to reach silence, I need to isolate my pump as a final measure. I can place it on some soft foam or a open-cell sponge, but that is not aesthetically pleasing, and the pump (DDC Variant) will not receive adequate cooling.

So I'm sitting here playing with some rubber bands trying to configure a "cradle" fount to isolate the pump from the case, and it hits me....

I need to find some semi-rigid tubing of small diameter that could attach to a stud, approx. #4-6 size ID. This would allow me to install studs in the bottom of the pump, and attach the pump to the tubing. The other end of the tubing would be attached to the case in the same fashion, except using screws.

This should totally isolate the pumps vibration from the case, while keeping 2" or so of space for air to pass under the pump and cool it. I'm really trying to create an almost "silent" system.

Am I crazy with this idea?

How "hot" does the pump get? How and where is it secured in your computer case?

ADDENDUM: Instead of waiting for your answer, I can't see why you can't attach it with rubber rivets, or use some sort of adhesive (or Velcro) with a pre-cut piece of Spire noise-deadening foam rubber to separate it from case metal. The rubber has an adhesive on one side (and a very good adhesive at that.) Velcro has adhesive backing: you could attach it to the foam. I can't understand the problem with heat: you have water continually coursing through the pump. . .

I'm looking at a Laing D5 Vario pump. There should be several ways to secure the pump adequately on a foam-rubber pad. Surely you want to make it easily removable. I just don't think there's a need for additional provision of "four-sided" ventilation.

You'll have to decide whether you're being obsessive and making "much ado about nothing."

 

[Tweakin]

How "hot" does the pump get? How and where is it secured in your computer case?

It's currently on a Swiftech heatsink/stand. Being firmly mounted to the case allows the pump vibration to come through. I modified it slightly by enlarging the case holes to allow for rubber grommets in the hope of isolating the mounting screws. While this helped, I'm not there yet...I'm looking for uber quiet.

As for heat, if I run pwm mode it stays pretty cool as I have the curve very low (just warm to the touch), but when it's wide open it will get really warm, as do most DDC pumps. I have heard of DDC's that have cooked themselves to death from sitting on foam pads that didn't allow for air to move underneath the motor housing. The heatsink does keep it cooler so I'm going to get creative for a mount.

 

[BrightCandle]

I run 2x DDC Ultras next to each other on top of foam and they don't get too hot and it dampens almost all of the vibration. Its the simplest and most effective option.

 

[dma0991]

I have thought of using magnets to act as vibration dampeners. I've figured out the concept but I'll only put it to the test in my next watercooling build.

 

[Tweakin]

...piece of Spire noise-deadening foam rubber to separate it from case metal...

The whole case is lined with this, been there...done that. I could use a sponge or egg crate, works fine...just want to find a cleaner approach.

 

[Tweakin]

...on top of foam and they don't get too hot and it dampens almost all of the vibration. Its the simplest and most effective option.

I agree, I use a sponge for my test bench, but I'd really like to find a solution to this sink. In my previous rig I just 'hung" my mcp350 off the inlet tubing, which was Tygon and it was totally silent...just looked stupid.

I just found this at MartinsLiquidLab...and it's what I've been trying to explain. I wish to use a softer tubing like a Tygon instead of the Nylon Spacer used in the photo.

 

[BrightCandle]

I use one of these on each pump - http://www.watercoolinguk.co.uk/p/Phobya-Anti-Vibration-Damper-Pad-Noise-Destructor-V11_900.html

Simple and cheap.

 

[CHEMEMAN]

I really would not worry about heat, the pump will be cooled by the coolant running through it. Attaching it with some of the double sided foam tape (maybe multiple layers if what you have is thin) is usually more than enough to keep it in place. Once the lines are cut and adjusted, the pump will not be able to move much anyway.

 

[Tweakin]

I really would not worry about heat, the pump will be cooled by the coolant running through it. Attaching it with some of the double sided foam tape (maybe multiple layers if what you have is thin) is usually more than enough to keep it in place. Once the lines are cut and adjusted, the pump will not be able to move much anyway.

The coolant does not run over the circuit board for cooling. Most DDC pumps run in excess of 50c...

The mounting is not the issue other than decoupling it from the case. I'm trying to achieve a total system noise level below 30db while keeping everything cool and within specs. I currently have the system pump running at 1400 rpm (pwm) and I can just barely hear it with the case open. I'm hoping that more drastic decoupling will allow me to run a higher throughput will still keeping the noise below my reference floor. I'm almost there.

 

[smackababy]

You could suspend your pump via strings and eliminate most of the vibration if you really wanted. I don't hear any of my pumps, and they are mounted with foam. I can hear the sound of them starting to move water when I start up the system, and that is it.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Even so, it's an interesting problem begging for a low-tech solution, and the commercial offerings linked by some posters so far show that it's been an issue with "market demand."

The trick would be making the solution the simplest possible.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

First, what's the material on the bottom? It looks like it could be the same material as Spire foam-rubber. Either way, I suspect the screws/bolts with the head or nut shown right-bottom runs all the way through to the pump. Eliminate and replace that item together with the hard nylon spacer, and it would be much better.

This should not be an expensive or difficult solution. I can think of many materials that might provide improvement. The devil is in the details, and I suspect it's not a very big devil.

 

[dma0991]

I just found this at MartinsLiquidLab...and it's what I've been trying to explain. I wish to use a softer tubing like a Tygon instead of the Nylon Spacer used in the photo.

Doing this will result in more vibration than using foam padding. I'd suggest using the one that BrightCandle linked, but with the legs of the heatsink screwed to the foam.

 

[Tweakin]

Doing this will result in more vibration than using foam padding. I'd suggest using the one that BrightCandle linked, but with the legs of the heatsink screwed to the foam.

That's a thought...now to find a US distributor!

 

[BonzaiDuck]

That's a thought...now to find a US distributor!

Looking at the UK link and the product, I don't see how you need to buy that item -- provided you either have unused Spire foam rubber panels or choose to order them. Then it becomes an issue of the price.

You could neatly cut pieces similar to the product, pick the appropriate adhesives if you need them.

I can tell you right away how I'd do this. The Spire material has adhesive on one side. You could sandwich several pre-cut squares together. For the sides that don't have the adhesive -- use your standard office bottle of rubber cement. On the top piece that mates with the pump, you could use your standard office hole-punch to make holes for nylon (or even metal) screws. You'd add a washer to the screw, insert it from the bottom of the panel before glueing it to the remaining stack, and then tighten down another washer and nut for each screw.

Done. Finito. Ge-endet. If you bought the Spire pads, they don't deteriorate in storage and have many uses for your PC refinements. If you didn't, this would likely cost you . . . . Nothing! Nada! Nichts!

 

[Tweakin]

Looking at the UK link and the product, I don't see how you need to buy that item -- provided you either have unused Spire foam rubber panels or choose to order them. Then it becomes an issue of the price.

You could neatly cut pieces similar to the product, pick the appropriate adhesives if you need them.

I can tell you right away how I'd do this. The Spire material has adhesive on one side. You could sandwich several pre-cut squares together. For the sides that don't have the adhesive -- use your standard office bottle of rubber cement. On the top piece that mates with the pump, you could use your standard office hole-punch to make holes for nylon (or even metal) screws. You'd add a washer to the screw, insert it from the bottom of the panel before glueing it to the remaining stack, and then tighten down another washer and nut for each screw.

Done. Finito. Ge-endet. If you bought the Spire pads, they don't deteriorate in storage and have many uses for your PC refinements. If you didn't, this would likely cost you . . . . Nothing! Nada! Nichts!

After I posted my last comment, I started thinking...dangerous I know. I'm trying to find my sample from Tempurpedic and cover the top with my case foam...pretty much as you just described.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

After I posted my last comment, I started thinking...dangerous I know. I'm trying to find my sample from Tempurpedic and cover the top with my case foam...pretty much as you just described.

If you're talking about the foam from which they make pillows and mattresses, that might also work. But I know from my 66 years on the planet that the stuff eventually deteriorates and crumbles.

Then, again -- Spire:

http://www.coolerguys.com/840556014003.html

$8.00 buys something like 1+ square yards of the stuff.

I've learned a couple things. Aluminum cases are more expensive, look nicer and are promoted because they absorb and conduct heat from components more than steel. But the actual effect it has on cooling is negligible with even "decent" airflow. Second, if you put the Spire material all over the inside of your case -- it's a near-permanent installation. Or, more accurately, it is a real chore to remove because the adhesive is so good.

I know that it works. I just think more specialized, focused application deadens the noise at its source without making your entire computer case echo-proof.

I just think that for what our colleague wants to use with his waterpump, it would take 15 minutes to do quite elegantly what you'd pay more to get with the device shown in the link. If looking for an even better way to secure the screws, I could see making the second-to-last layer out of foam art-board, running the screws through it as well. You'd use longer screws. And in fact, longer screws with nylon spacers on top of the rubber pad would allow lifting the pump above the pad to allow better airflow.

Any vibration would terminate with the rubber pad.

 

[aigomorla]

the PWM pump will run cooler because its pwm.. its not running at full speed all the time.
However i dont ever suggest nor recommend u sandwitch a pad below the PCB on a DDC EVER.

They do run hot when running at full speed.

I use koolance heat sinks because they are the BEST on the market.
No vendor can come close to the koolance sink... NONE.

The PCB is cooled via heatsink with a direct heat pad on it.

The shell is 100% metal

And koolance pumps allows the change of shell without the voiding of warrenty.

If you want to put a pad on the ddc, then put the DDC resting sideways so the top inlet is sideways, and the outlet is pointing up or back..

It's currently on a

i told you go out to a supermarket... go get a dish washing sponge..
Rotate your pump vertically so the heat sink is facing out the back of the pc...... put the 90 on the inlet and not outlet.
Point the outlet to your GPU's.

Then have a small fan directed at the heat sink u have on the rear...
This way u can kill 2 birds with 1 stone.

 

[Tweakin]

...Rotate your pump vertically so the heat sink is facing out the back of the pc...... put the 90 on the inlet and not outlet.
Point the outlet to your GPU's...

You didn't mention mounting the pump on it's side. Ingenious, I was so focused on the specific task I didn't think of removing the studs and mounting it sideways...you know all, you see all, you are wise!!! Now where did I put my extra tubing...

 

[BonzaiDuck]

You didn't mention mounting the pump on it's side. Ingenious, I was so focused on the specific task I didn't think of removing the studs and mounting it sideways...you know all, you see all, you are wise!!! Now where did I put my extra tubing...

Hear! Hear!

That's an interesting aspect of water pumps of which I wasn't aware.

So you could still isolate the vibration in various ways discussed, but mount the pump so the "direct heat pad" gets air-cooling.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

Just thought I'd drop this in.

The thread is about reducing noise created by a waterpump. The waterpump needs "heat dissipation" capability. You want to point the pump's heat-dissipating surface against the draft of a larger case intake fan.

So here's a double-dose of tedium. You can either buy aluminum heatsink material as bars with raised fins and cut your own, look through the parts-locker or just find one at a reseller. If you cut your own, the metal shop probably sells foot-long pieces for roughly $3+ dollars. A bench-vise or similar tool and a hacksaw with a metal cutting blade, or a dremel cutting wheel work easily to get the pieces you want in 15 or 20 minutes.

Then mate up holes drilled in your heatsink to the pump and screw together using some thermal paste or even thermal adhesive epoxy -- if you want that sort of permanence. But you could find long enough screws to work with the foam pad, so that you might then tap holes for a 40mm fan. The first that comes to mind is a tach-monitoring 40x28mm Sunon Mag-Lev fan, thermally controllable with a sensor wire if you have a controller or the deluxe motherboard feature. With maybe an extra identically cut bracket and holes like those of a waterpump, there would be all sorts of possibilities to integrating the fan, the noise-deadening pad, the pump and its orientation, and still control the noise thermally.

there are several models of these Mag Lev fans, and I have a few in the parts-locker. I had used them and thought some few years ago that they really didn't make a lot of noise. As for various sites and forum posts, someone makes an argument that the fans are no good because they only push about 7 CFM -- with high pressure rating.

It's focused on a 40mm area!! You could use those fans to replace the original fans on the Sabertooth motherboard. The 51 dBA is the rating for the top-end of 13,000 RPM, and the fan is directed at a small area of a heatsink.

So you might wager one way or the other -- whether any noise from the Sunon defeats the purpose of the project -- to eliminate the pump noise. Seems you could run those fans at 2,000 or 3,000 -- even so. But since I don't have a waterpump to test the idea, I wouldn't know for sure if it would work. But there's a lot of other fans to choose from over the Sunon Mag Lev, so maybe it's worth trying. That's my disclaimer.

 

[Tweakin]

Just thought I'd drop this in. So here's a double-dose of tedium. You can either buy aluminum heatsink material as bars with raised fins and cut your own...

I already have the heatsink, it's in the pic...

...fans on the Sabertooth motherboard. The 51 dBA is the rating for the top-end of 13,000 RPM, and the fan is directed at a small area of a heatsink...

I've got a Gigabyte MB, not Asus. Thanks for the input though. I'm going to drain the system and mount the pump on it's side as AIGO suggested. The sink will receive plenty of air from my front 140's...hence the general location to start with. More to follow.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I already have the heatsink, it's in the pic...



I've got a Gigabyte MB, not Asus. Thanks for the input though. I'm going to drain the system and mount the pump on it's side as AIGO suggested. The sink will receive plenty of air from my front 140's...hence the general location to start with. More to follow.

LEt me say first that I had a rapture of memories about the Mag-Lev fan when I thought about it in this . . digression of mine.

Anyone might be right for saying the fan is a totally unnecessary idea, and I wouldn't likely do it. Just as easily, I might try it, but you could saw an old copper Tt dual-heatpipe cooler in half for the heatsink and come out ahead just for the front panel 140 or 120 intake fans. What looks to be the high-end temperatures for the waterpump could probably be reduced a lot just for the simplest choices.

Thinking about my old Sunons, I was thinking that any motherboard could become a Sabertooth with an Xacto knife, 1:1 board layout diagram, some nylon screws and a couple of those fans. But it's not really our topic here.

Anyway, I must've missed something, because I can't find a photo in the thread showing a heatsink as you say. No matter. There's just a lot of things you could do to address the pump noise problem. I'd think some combination would make a pump-owner happy.