*sigh* Another Palestinian suicide bomber...

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
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Here is another link to the story:

Reuters via Yahoo

The bomber was badly wounded in the blast. Police said they shot him dead, fearing he was about to detonate more explosives.

Now, I wonder if some zealot will begin sniveling because the Israelis shot this suicide bomber dead after he detonated a bomb. :confused:
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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guess you didnt read the whole headline

Suicide Bomber Strikes Northern Israeli City; Five Palestinians Killed in Israeli Raid

The five palistinians were killed before the suicide bomber did his thing, so its very obvios that the suicide bomber was to revange those five palistinians. So next we will see Israel go in and kill more palistinians in revange for what the suicide bomber did, and then it happens again and again. Its so obvios that what Israel is doing to try to stop more suicide bombers is not working and never will, it will only increase the numbers of people willing to become suicide bombers.



edit

here, this is basicly how it works
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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It is so obvious that the suicide bombers are not succeeding in their goal of destroying Israel and creating a safe and stable state for the Palestinians to live in,but they keep destroying themselves and any hope for peace in the region.
 

beer

Lifer
Jun 27, 2000
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<< guess you didnt read the whole headline

Suicide Bomber Strikes Northern Israeli City; Five Palestinians Killed in Israeli Raid

The five palistinians were killed before the suicide bomber did his thing, so its very obvios that the suicide bomber was to revange those five palistinians. So next we will see Israel go in and kill more palistinians in revange for what the suicide bomber did, and then it happens again and again. Its so obvios that what Israel is doing to try to stop more suicide bombers is not working and never will, it will only increase the numbers of people willing to become suicide bombers.
>>




And if they're all as brilliant as this guy, there's no loss to any civilized life anyways.
 

kt

Diamond Member
Apr 1, 2000
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i think all you guys are naive to think that the conflict between the palestinians and the israelis will be resolved. there will always be some liberal idiots causing problem no matter what.
 

Aelus

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2000
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<< It is so obvious that the suicide bombers are not succeeding in their goal of destroying Israel and creating a safe and stable state for the Palestinians to live in,but they keep destroying themselves and any hope for peace in the region. >>



neither is israel succeeding in keeping the palestinians opressed. As i said before, the only possible solution out of this problem is either a huge project to improve the life of the refugees to give them a reason to live, or a complete genocide. Any other measures are only temporary and will solve very little.

Aelus
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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well said Aelus, very much agree, but personaly I prefer the former, as in not the genocide part ;)
 

etech

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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Aelus
"neither is israel succeeding in keeping the palestinians opressed."

Why of course Israel is not suceeding in keeping the Palestinians opressed, that is not their goal.
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
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<< Aelus
"neither is israel succeeding in keeping the palestinians opressed."

Why of course Israel is not suceeding in keeping the Palestinians opressed, that is not their goal.
>>



you sure? i´m not sure, seems that one day Israel wants peace and then another day wants blood, same goes with Palestine.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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<<

<< It is so obvious that the suicide bombers are not succeeding in their goal of destroying Israel and creating a safe and stable state for the Palestinians to live in,but they keep destroying themselves and any hope for peace in the region. >>



neither is israel succeeding in keeping the palestinians opressed. As i said before, the only possible solution out of this problem is either a huge project to improve the life of the refugees to give them a reason to live, or a complete genocide. Any other measures are only temporary and will solve very little.

Aelus
>>



I guess the option of deportation completely slipped your mind? This is what Israel should have done immediately following the 67 war, but no... They decided to try and live in peace with a people who have shown they are completely unwilling to do so.

People here seem to forget WHY this situation exists in the first place. More than TWICE these people have waged full scale war against Israel alongside the Arab nations. And repeatedly, Israel has fought back their unprovoked attacks, soundly defeating them and all the surounding Arab nations... Even BEFORE the US gave any signifigant aid. These people are not victims, they are what's left of a people who were used as toadies by the Arab nations to try and destroy the state of Israel. They attack, lose, and claim victim status... and ignorant people fall for it.

There are one million Arab Israelis living in Israel with full rights and equality. Yet there are a few million living in the territories who refuse to live in peace. Every time Israel gives an inch, the Palestinians commit mass murder (now that countless legitimate military attempts have failed). It's time to stop (doubtful) or get them out, and have Israel close it's borders.
 

Iwentsouth

Senior member
Oct 19, 2001
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Once again for those in thewho get there news from the Nazi controlled European media . Arafat started this war AFTER Israel tried to make peace. The PA fight against the Israelis because Arafat tld them too. It is the same today the PA is the enemy of the IDF. The IDF has every right to kill there enemy. We in the US should leave Israel alone and let them fight for there survival.

Obviously the Nazi EU and Nazi European medi awant the Jews in Israel to be all be killed. That is there ultimate goal. Hitler said it was a 1000 year Reich. It hasn't been 1000 years yet.
 

Aelus

Golden Member
Oct 1, 2000
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The palestinians living in israel have a decent life, the ones living in refugee camps do not. That's all the difference there is. Also, you assume a deportation won't kill a whole bunch of people, we've seen in the past how nazi deportations killed thousands of people, do you expect israeli deportations to kill less?

oh, and i wasn't surprised when i heard that the israeli soldiers killed that heavily wounded guy, they've been killing children out of hatred for a while, so it just fits in the bigger whole i guess.

btw, vespasian, hamas only exists because they got alot of support from israel when it was created, because it would split the palestinians in 2 camps. Look up the history of hamas when it was founded around '87.

Oh, just to stirr things up a little more, here's a little theory: Sharon wanted to see if he could pull off a genocide in '82, he didn't use his own troops, but instead he used a allied forces who were trained by the IDF, and were considered just another unit, but he knew he could blame it on them if something went wrong. He probably didn't expect such an outrage, and it was very unfortunate for him he got kicked out of his position.

Now, he's trying to stirr things up to the point where he can pull off a full scale genocide. It was never part of sharons plan to bring peace, he's from a party which is extremely conservative, and he knows he'll get much more votes in wartime than during peace.

care to point out the flaws in my little theory. Btw, pointing out flaws does not mean calling names or throwing insults around.

Aelus
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Aelus, for thirty years Israel has repeatedly attempted peace, and has had bombs blowing up it's citizens as it's reward. The Palestinians have turned down every peace accord offered. How many more must die before they simply say "enough" and do something to end all this once and for all? How long would you have them be under seige? You DO realize that the fanatics will NOT rest until Israel is destroyed, don't you?

Your "theory" on Sharon is wrong. And your obsession with the 82 attacks is pathetic. You do realize that at the time, the Palestinians had amassed an army in Lebenon and was attacking Israel from there --shelling cities and setting up countless terrorist attacks? You do realize that those camps housed PLO militia? You do realize that it was ARABS that did the killing, not Jews? You do realize that Israel did not condone the action?

But yet, you parrot it like some fool who knows nothing else. Why?

The other side of the story:

The Lebanese Christian Phalangist militia was responsible for the massacres that occurred at the two Beirut-area refugee camps on September 16-17, 1982. Israeli troops allowed the Phalangists to enter Sabra and Shatila to root out terrorist cells believed located there. It had been estimated that there may have been up to 200 armed men in the camps working out of the countless bunkers built by the PLO over the years, and stocked with generous reserves of ammunition.15

When Israeli soldiers ordered the Phalangists out, they found hundreds dead (estimates range from 460 according to the Lebanese police, to 700-800 calculated by Israeli intelligence). The dead, according to the Lebanese account, included 35 women and children. The rest were men: Palestinians, Lebanese, Pakistanis, Iranians, Syrians and Algerians. The killings came on top of an estimated 95,000 deaths that had occurred during the civil war in Lebanon from 1975-1982.16

Israel had allowed the Phalange to enter the camps as part of a plan to transfer authority to the Lebanese, and accepted responsibility for that decision. The Kahan Commission of Inquiry, formed by the Israeli government in response to public outrage and grief, found that Israel was indirectly responsible for not anticipating the possibility of Phalangist violence.

By contrast, few voices were raised in May 1985, when Muslim militiamen attacked the Shatila and Burj-el Barajneh Palestinian refugee camps. According to UN officials, 635 were killed and 2,500 wounded. During a two-year battle between the Syrian-backed Shiite Amal militia and the PLO, more than 2,000 people, including many civilians, were reportedly killed. No outcry was directed at the PLO or the Syrians and their allies over the slaughter. International reaction was also muted in October 1990 when Syrian forces overran Christian-controlled areas of Lebanon. In the eight-hour clash, 700 Christians were killed ? the worst single battle of Lebanon's Civil War.

Yet we never hear Aelus cry over that, do we?

Aelus, Israel is constantly under attack from within, and outside it's borders. And you expect them to have tea parties with these people? I agree that it was bad judgement to delegate the authority of cleaning PLO aggressors out of the camps to Arabs. But Isreal at the time was damned if they did, and damned if they didn't. They had invaded Lebanon in an attempt to stop the PLO shelling and terrorism, and wanted to get out as quickly as possibe. Handing over authority to Arabs and letting them deal with their own was seen as the best way to do that.

Again, you know nothing of the history of this battle, yet you take a position. Why? Your position from ignorance is akin to entering a bar at the end of a brawl and seeing the final punch, then blaming the victor for being the aggressor. When in reality, he just defended himself against no less than 7 large, mean guys bent on killing him.

Israel is defending itself and has been under attack for over 50 years. They've tried everything short of packing up and leaving. Once one KNOWS the history, one cannot blame them for taking a hard line on this. SOMETHING final has to be done. This has been going on far too long.
 

darren

Senior member
Feb 26, 2000
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Israel uses OTHER peoples' lands as a security buffer zone to protect itself without regards to the well being of the people whose land they occupy.

If you read 242 and the events preceding it and those after it - it is clear that Israeli leaders have cited both religious and more pragmatic (security) concerns as its reasons for not implementing 242. The question is logically - how much security does a country deserve, especially when it is at the cost of the occupation, well-being, and livlihood of other peoples, nations and countries?

Who has more security? Israel or the Arab countries surrounding it or the people that Israel has occupied and expelled?

THE INADMISSIBILITY OF THE ACQUISITION OF TERRITORY BY WAR-

one should seriously consider whether violent acts against Israelis/Israel in the OCCUPIED TERRITORIES of east jerusalem, west bank, gaza strip, the golan, and (til just two years ago) southern lebanon are attacks against Israel ('those terrorists in southern LEBANON attacking and killing israeli troops') or whether they are legitimate, valid, and justified acts to expel foreign occupiers. they likely lie in between the two.

U.N. SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTION 242
NOVEMBER 22, 1967

The Security Council,

Expressing its continuing concern with the grave situation in the Middle East,

Emphasizing the inadmissibility of the acquisition of territory by war and the need to work for a just and lasting peace in which every State in the area can live in security,

Emphasizing further that all Member States in their acceptance of the Charter of the United Nations have undertaken a commitment to act in accordance with Article 2 of the Charter,

Affirms that the fulfillment of Charter principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles:

Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict;

Termination of all claims or states of belligerency and respect for and acknowledgement of the sovereignty, territorial integrity and political independence of every State in the area and their right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force;

Affirms further the necessity

For guaranteeing freedom of navigation through international waterways in the area;

For achieving a just settlement of the refugee problem;

For guaranteeing the territorial inviolability and political independence of every State in the area, through measures including the establishment of demilitarized zones;

Requests the Secretary General to designate a Special Representative to proceed to the Middle East to establish and maintain contacts with the States concerned in order to promote agreement and assist efforts to achieve a peaceful and accepted settlement in accordance with the provisions and principles in this resolution;

Requests the Secretary-General to report to the Security Council on the progress of the efforts of the Special Representative as soon as possible.

Text
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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WTF???

Why SHOULDN'T they use those lands instead of their own??? THEY aren't the aggressor. The aggressors are COMING from those countries (Lebanon and Syria, to be precise). If a country hosts an aggressor army, it should not claim victim status when they have their ass handed to them, their land invaded, and used as a security zone.

Why should Israel militarize THEIR civilian towns and cities, when they did not attack in the first place???

I swear, some people just can't stand Israel. I have yet to figure out why.
 

Double Trouble

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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Sigh... some folks just don't get it. There will not be peace until two things happen: First, the Israeli's have to have some semblance of safety from both inside (terrorist) and outside (military) attack. Second, the Palestinians must have a land to call their own where they can live not as second class citizens (as is the case now), but independent of Israeli (or other) domination.

Until those two conditions are met, both sides will continue their fruitless battle, and both sides will fail to achieve any kind of resolution. Isreal terrorizes the Palestinians with their military, while Palestinians terrorize Isreali's with bombs and such. Both sides are wrong, and neither side will 'win' in the long run.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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<< Sigh... some folks just don't get it. There will not be peace until two things happen: First, the Israeli's have to have some semblance of safety from both inside (terrorist) and outside (military) attack. Second, the Palestinians must have a land to call their own where they can live not as second class citizens (as is the case now), but independent of Israeli (or other) domination.

Until those two conditions are met, both sides will continue their fruitless battle, and both sides will fail to achieve any kind of resolution. Isreal terrorizes the Palestinians with their military, while Palestinians terrorize Isreali's with bombs and such. Both sides are wrong, and neither side will 'win' in the long run.
>>



The Palestinians have been repeatedly offered all that and more, and have flatly rejected every offer.
 

darren

Senior member
Feb 26, 2000
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I don't know something called International Principles. I vow that I'll burn every Palestinian Child will be born in this area. The Palestinian Woman and Child is more dangerous than the Man, Because the Palestinian Child existence refers that Generations will go on, but the man causes limited danger. I vow that if I was just an Israeli Civilian and I met a Palestinian I would burn him and I would make him suffer before killing him. With One hit I've killed 750 Palestinians ( in Rafah, 1956). I wanted to encourage my soldiers by raping Arabic Girls as The Palestinian Woman is a slave for Jews, and we do whatever we want to her and Nobody tells us what we shall do but we tell others what they shall do. - Ariel Sharon, In an interview with General Ouze Merham, 1956

"I have learned that the state of Israel cannot be ruled in our generation without deceit and adventurism." -- Moshe Sharett, Israel's first Foreign Minister and later a Prime Minister (p.51 Simha Flapan, "The Birth of Israel", 1987).

"... it is the duty of the [Israeli] leadership to explain to the public a number of truths. One truth is that there is no Zionism, no settlement, and no Jewish state without evacuating Arabs, and without expropriating lands and their fencing off." -- Yesha'ayahu Ben-Porat, (Yedi'ot Aharonot 07/14/1972) responding to public controversy regarding the Israeli evictions of Palestinians in Rafah, Gaza, in 1972. (Cited in Nur Masalha's "A Land Without A People" 1997, p.98)

We have forgotten that we have not come to an empty land to inherit it, but we have come to conquer a country from people inhabiting it, that governs it by the virtue of its language and savage culture ..... Recently there has been appearing in our newspapers the clarification about "the mutual misunderstanding" between us and the Arabs, about "common interests" [and] about "the possibility of unity and peace between two fraternal peoples." ..... [But] we must not allow ourselves to be deluded by such illusive hopes ..... for if we ceases to look upon our land, the Land of Israel, as ours alone and we allow a partner into our estate- all content and meaning will be lost to our enterprise.
-Moshe Sharett the first Israeli foreign minister, 1914


WHO IS THE AGGRESSOR? THE ONE THAT HAS TO PLAN THE EXPULSION OF PALESTINIANS TO ANOTHER LAND OR THE PALESTINIANS, WHO HAVE BEEN SYSTEMATICALLY EXPELLED?
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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<< do you know who ariel sharon is?

how bout moshe sharett?
>>



Yes, I do. What's your point?