Sick of formatting...Learn how to FIX windows?

[Ichinisan]

I have to repair PC's for friends all the time. When Windows stops working, I usually have no other option than formatting. Now I am helping another friend who repairs computers for profit. Customers bring in their PC's and expect to have them repaired. They often specifically request that the computer not be formatted. Often Explorer won't even come up in Safe Mode, disappearing immediately after the process starts. Without restore CD's, there is not much I can do but tell them to take the computer back home, unrepaired.

Are there any good Web resources with details on how to tell exactly where Windows is screwing up? I want a site with a detailed descriptions of all the minute details that could be useful when diagnosing and repairing Windows.

*keeps fingers crossed hoping that such a resource exists

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Other than google and MSKB, there's not much you can do alot of the time. Windows is a mess, and even worse, it's closed off in a manner that basically ties your hands. Alot of times all you can do is reinstall.

 

[crisp82]

I have this all the time. The only grace I guess is that you can transfer the files across and re-install, keeping the files ok. Settings are another problem though....


BTW: Here come the Linux threads

 

[Lonyo]

Originally posted by: crisp82
I have this all the time. The only grace I guess is that you can transfer the files across and re-install, keeping the files ok. Settings are another problem though....


BTW: Here come the Linux threads

I was just thinking that:
Fix of Windows = Another OS.

 

[CZroe]

In most cases, someone wants to avoid a format to save their applications, not just the data files.

 

[burnedout]

BingBongWongFooey is correct. When it comes to the Windoze machines, the Microsoft Knowledge Base is your friend. I recommend that one over all the rest. However, if you get an OEM like Dell, Comcrap, HP or Gateway with problems, consult their website too. Their updated drivers for the junk they install usually helps in solving some problems.

Typically on the Win2K, XP, 98 and ME machines I work with, I might average about 1 reinstall for every 15 for what I would consider major issues such as Exploder not working properly.

Here are some others I've bookmarked over the years:

Windoze NT and 2000 FAQ

Wayne's NT Resources for Admins and Users

Annoyances.org

I'm sure there are other resources out there as well.

 

[Ichinisan]

Thanks, but the MSKB blissfully ignores any real problems, such as Exploder not loading, which might make Windows appear...crappy.

 

[ProviaFan]

"The box said the software needed Windows 95 or better, so I installed Linux"

Yes, my friends, that is how you can permanently fix your Windows problems.

Anyway, as has already been stated, the MSKB is the best resource for troubleshooting Windows problems. Some things, however, just can't be fixed in a non-destructive way, and a reformat is required. :frown:

 

[Poontos]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Other than google and MSKB, there's not much you can do alot of the time. Windows is a mess, and even worse, it's closed off in a manner that basically ties your hands. Alot of times all you can do is reinstall.

Wrong. Windows is not a mess if you understand it.

 

[Ichinisan]

OK, do YOU understand why Explorer.exe closes as soon as it is launched? The Taskbar and Windows Desktop can never appear, even in Safe Mode!

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: Poontos

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Other than google and MSKB, there's not much you can do alot of the time. Windows is a mess, and even worse, it's closed off in a manner that basically ties your hands. Alot of times all you can do is reinstall.

Wrong. Windows is not a mess if you understand it.

Then enlighten me as to how a Windows 9x OS can suddenly "eat" a critical system file (no virii or trojans caused the file to be deleted...it just disappeared; the system wasn't overclocked, but this still happened many times). Windows 2000 and XP are somewhat more sane, but I still find UNIX-like OSes to be better documented and easier to understand.

 

[Poontos]

Originally posted by: Ichinisan
OK, do YOU understand why Explorer.exe closes as soon as it is launched? The Taskbar and Windows Desktop can never appear, even in Safe Mode!

Unless it is Windows 95, 98, ME, or pre-SP2 Windows 2000 and pre-SP1 Windows XP, it is not Windows, it is the applications that they installed or the programs that are run due to P2P style applications, spyware, malware, crap sofware, etc. A fresh install of Windows does not do this. If it does, then the CD is corrupt and pirated, or the hardware and/or the drivers for the hardware are crap.

 

[burnedout]

Originally posted by: Ichinisan
OK, do YOU understand why Explorer.exe closes as soon as it is launched? The Taskbar and Windows Desktop can never appear, even in Safe Mode!

Possible solution?

 

[Poontos]

Originally posted by: jliechty

Originally posted by: Poontos

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Other than google and MSKB, there's not much you can do alot of the time. Windows is a mess, and even worse, it's closed off in a manner that basically ties your hands. Alot of times all you can do is reinstall.

Wrong. Windows is not a mess if you understand it.

Then enlighten me as to how a Windows 9x OS can suddenly "eat" a critical system file (no virii or trojans caused the file to be deleted...it just disappeared; the system wasn't overclocked, but this still happened many times). Windows 2000 and XP are somewhat more sane, but I still find UNIX-like OSes to be better documented and easier to understand.

It is Windows 9x. This is the year 2003. Upgrade. Let me get a few things straight: I use FreeBSD and various flavours of Linux. Some OSes are better for various things. A "UNIX-like" OS from 19"9x", as a server would be ludicris. "UNIX-like" OSes have a history of being servers, and not focused on workstations, so you cannot compare a newer version of a "NIX-like" OS to Windows 9x.

 

[Poontos]

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: Ichinisan
OK, do YOU understand why Explorer.exe closes as soon as it is launched? The Taskbar and Windows Desktop can never appear, even in Safe Mode!

Possible solution?

Yes, lets look at solutions, rather than focusing on OS vs. OS. Things are only a mess if you do not understand them. OSes from pre-1999 are not comparable to OSes of today. Simple.

 

[ProviaFan]

Originally posted by: Poontos

Originally posted by: jliechty

Originally posted by: Poontos

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Other than google and MSKB, there's not much you can do alot of the time. Windows is a mess, and even worse, it's closed off in a manner that basically ties your hands. Alot of times all you can do is reinstall.

Wrong. Windows is not a mess if you understand it.

Then enlighten me as to how a Windows 9x OS can suddenly "eat" a critical system file (no virii or trojans caused the file to be deleted...it just disappeared; the system wasn't overclocked, but this still happened many times). Windows 2000 and XP are somewhat more sane, but I still find UNIX-like OSes to be better documented and easier to understand.

It is Windows 9x. This is the year 2003. Upgrade.

Some hardware and software is not supported by NT based OSes. I make sure that all of mine is, but some do not have that luxury. Some can not afford to upgrade. The world isn't perfect. Get over it.

Let me get a few things straight: I use FreeBSD and various flavours of Linux. Some OSes are better for various things. A "UNIX-like" OS from 19"9x", as a server would be ludicris. "UNIX-like" OSes have a history of being servers, and not focused on workstations, so you cannot compare a newer version of a "NIX-like" OS to Windows 9x.

Excuse me, but what have almost all high end workstations run, up until relatively recently (well, up until the time of NT4)? (hint: it wasn't Windows).

 

[drag]

Ya sure windows is fixable, If you know what you are doing, but most of the time is just a waste of time... once one part goes out it creates to many instabilities... hell if you have to do a hardboot 3 or 4 times in a row do to a bad driver or IE gone haywire, then you've probably corrupted another hunk of windows do the HD abuse, so that as soon as you fix a problem, the likelyhood of having to do another frustration-born series of hardboots is just down the road....

The best thing to do when dealing with this is just not to install any extra software. XP will last a long time just as long as don't realy use it for much.. Becuase if you use it for something that the MS marketing didn't think off, or install a bunch of software on it then it's just your fault anyways for windows crashing all the time...

Also don't think that MS will every actually respnd to any e-mails or anything as base as that. You just are not important enough, Although searching thru the Knowledge base is kinda of a art in it self, it's pretty much all you'll get from MS short of spending 35 bucks to get a hold of a tech...


probably what would be most helpfull is learn howto use the recover console.. you could probably extract a new copy of explorer.exe if the old one is FUBAR...

EDIT.. OH ya if you want to do it professionally.. BE SURE TO BACKUP THE ENTIRE HD BEFORE even touching the PC's! OMG that is the most important thing... doing as something as simple as reinstalling modem drivers can completely F**K everything even if you do everything EXACTLY RIGHT!! First thing to do BACK UP BACK UP BACK UP... If a person wants you to get his sound card fixed so he could play porno mpg's with sound, and he got a virus, and now you try to fix the computer and that virus goes beserk and fries the HD. What do you tell em? uh sorry dude there was a virus.. He goes "it was working when I brought it in, it didn't have a virus, I use the macavi (?) virus scanner that came with my computer 5 years ago(with the 90 day free trial of course), you f****d it up, i love you!". And then when you are told by his lawyer that he kept the finacial records for 30 employees and the contact info for 400 vendors around the country stored in spreadsheets on the desktop in MY DOCUMENTS. Whose gonna get sued? The virus maker? the infected porno site? Microsoft? The sound card maker?.. nope, you!

Just a freindly warning.. don't want to hear about another person losing a business because a customer is to stupid to use floppy disks for backups

 

[Barnaby W. Füi]

Originally posted by: Poontos

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Other than google and MSKB, there's not much you can do alot of the time. Windows is a mess, and even worse, it's closed off in a manner that basically ties your hands. Alot of times all you can do is reinstall.

Wrong. Windows is not a mess if you understand it.

And only a select few MS employees can be graced with the description of "understanding windows". Not exactly useful for the rest of the world.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey

Originally posted by: Poontos

Originally posted by: BingBongWongFooey
Other than google and MSKB, there's not much you can do alot of the time. Windows is a mess, and even worse, it's closed off in a manner that basically ties your hands. Alot of times all you can do is reinstall.

Wrong. Windows is not a mess if you understand it.

And only a select few MS employees can be graced with the description of "understanding windows". Not exactly useful for the rest of the world.

Got that right. Sheesh, I have several windows computers and sometimes they just seem to have a mind of their own.

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: Poontos

Originally posted by: burnedout

Originally posted by: Ichinisan
OK, do YOU understand why Explorer.exe closes as soon as it is launched? The Taskbar and Windows Desktop can never appear, even in Safe Mode!

Possible solution?

Yes, lets look at solutions, rather than focusing on OS vs. OS. Things are only a mess if you do not understand them. OSes from pre-1999 are not comparable to OSes of today. Simple.

Do you even know what you're talking about? Do you have any idea how many people are still running "ancient" versions of windows? Besides the changes to the code base, do you actually think that there is a large difference between Windows XP and Windows 98? I think that those two OSs actually compare rather easily. Microsoft OSs hit the roof with windows 98, that was when they reached a kind of critical mass. In that Windows 98 was and still is the most compatible version of windows. Which means, users using 98 don't have to throw away their old games. Which is a good thing because what would they gain by running both 98 and XP? Nothing. Microsoft wants users to upgrade because that's how they make money, but this doesn't mean that anyone should upgrade.

I see a much larger difference between red hat 6.0 and red hat 8.0 then I do between windows 98 and XP. As for undestanding windows, go ahead and enlighten us .

 

[Spyro]

Originally posted by: Lonyo

Originally posted by: crisp82
I have this all the time. The only grace I guess is that you can transfer the files across and re-install, keeping the files ok. Settings are another problem though....


BTW: Here come the Linux threads

I was just thinking that:
Fix of Windows = Another OS.

Works fine for me . After I switched I never had another windows problem again . Yep, if you have a leak cut off the water......

 

[crisp82]

Unfortunately cutting out the waer isn't always a viable option. Especially for those offices running Windows. Think how much money, time and effort would have to go into switching OS's in that kind of environment.

 

[Sunner]

I think the main problem that makes Windows messy(well to everyone except the 5 MS employees who "know" it) is that it never gives you any hints about anything.
When something goes wrong in Windows you rarely get any useful information, while in *NIX OS's you generally get some hints.

Good example, I run Gentoo at work, and it's quite bastardised, with some prerelease software, etc, so things do go wrong now and then.
This last week Evolution began crapping out, but it did give me enough to info to track the problem to an unstable version of some Gnome libs, which in turn gave me the solution after some Googling.

That's why I rarely try to fix Windows installs that are screwed up, it's an uphill battle that's not worth the effort.

 

[cleverhandle]

Originally posted by: Sunner
That's why I rarely try to fix Windows installs that are screwed up, it's an uphill battle that's not worth the effort.

Yeah, that pretty much tells it the way I see it. Maybe I could fix it by booting into Safe Mode, copying over system files, cleaning the registry, etc. But by the time I've done that, I could have just reformatted and reinstalled everything in less time with less frustration. If you're really set up to handle this well, it should be fast - back up using Ghost or a Linux boot floppy/CD over NFS, keep driver and common application disks around (Anti-Virus, Acrobat, etc.), and you can be back in business in under 2 hours, much of which can be spent drinking coffee and surfing the Net on another machine. It only gets difficult if the user has a whole lot of custom apps installed.

 

[CTho9305]

I think the problem is that the registry is just so big it isn't humanly possible to find/fix problems. Especially since programs like explorer.exe depend on so many keys.