Shuttle 250W PSU - seriously?

[WildW]

Considering a little Shuttle build and wondering about their little power supplies. Came across something on their website I'm not sure I can believe.

According to this: http://global.shuttle.com/support_faq_detail.jsp?PI=1383&PFI=1939

Their standard bundled 250W power supply can happily run the following system:

Intel Core2Quad Q9650, 2xWD 10Krpm hard disk (Raptors?), and a Radeon HD5850.

::blink::

Do you think this means they will honour the warranty when you build such a system and the PSU goes pop after 10 minutes? I wasn't planning quite such a high-end build, but I'm just shocked that they list this setup as okay on their 250W PSU.


My last experience of a Shuttle was several years ago now, a Core2Duo @ 2.4 GHz, and an 8800GT. At the time I upgraded to the 300W PSU and hoped it would just about be enough. The PSU popped after about 3 months. Was that just bad luck?

 

[TemjinGold]

Most likely just bad luck.

You wouldn't have a whole lot of headroom but that PSU should easily run the listed system if it's a quality unit.

 

[apathy_next2]

My last experience of a Shuttle was several years ago now, a Core2Duo @ 2.4 GHz, and an 8800GT. At the time I upgraded to the 300W PSU and hoped it would just about be enough. The PSU popped after about 3 months. Was that just bad luck?

I ran the same system/specs with the stock 250W. Worked fine for 2 years and still runs fine(just using onboard now as its not a gaming system anymore)

 

[beginner99]

ideally you want your pc to consume around 50% of the total wattage specified on the unit.
PSUs are the most efficient around 50%, that's why you would normally take a much more powerfull unit. Another reason is noise. At 100% load it probably will make a lot of noise. Also with time the psu might degrade a little and if you have 0 headroom from start...
But then it depends on the psu. Some can be very effcient even at 20% or 100% load, it just comes with a high price tag.

250W for that setup seems very low for me too. Would make me feel little uneasy when using the pc at 100% load.

 

[Zap]

If you want more wattage for a similar system size, consider building your own mini ITX in a Silverstone SG05 or SG06. They are available with either 300W or 450W PSUs. Also, the Silverstone SG07 has a 600W PSU, but it is a bigger (and some say uglier) case.

 

[WildW]

The point of the Shuttle was a cheap LAN box. The SG41J1 Plus is basically the same price as those two Silverstone cases, but includes motherboard and PSU. The plan was to drop in a cheap Pentium Dual-Core and when I want to take the computer out, the 5850 in my main machine can be temporarily transplanted.

I know Shuttle's own support pages are claiming 95W quad + HD5850, but I can't bring myself to believe it. From a review at http://lanoc.org/review/hardware/pc-hardware/3723-shuttle-sg41j1-plus , the PSU has a 16A 12V rail. . . that's 192W max to run 95W CPU + 151W GPU (http://www.anandtech.com/show/2848) . Even with a 65W dual-core it's going to be over the limit.

I have a 5670 sat doing nothing/awaiting eBay, but it's not going to push 1920x1200 very well.

Edit: I note the Silverstones come with PSU too, not so bad as I thought. Will have to investigate mobo prices.

 

[Concillian]

People seriously overestimate the amount of power their machine actually uses.

Nothing actually runs both the CPU and GPU at full TDP except synthetic testing or GPU folding + multitasking.

Usually if the GPU is taxed, the CPU is not, and vice versa. Manufacturers do this kind of statistical likelihood ratings all the time. Parameter X has this tolerance and Y hass that tolerance. They both have some distribution, and the chance that X & Y are both at max is something like 0.000001%, they design around 0.0001% instead and just live with a 0.000099% return rate due to statistical overlap that saves them money on designing for that unlikely tolerance stack.

If I use my Kill-a-Watt to look at power usage in actual games vs. Furmark, my machine is drawing less than 70% of Furmark power when actually playing games and not doing synthetic testing.

Again people tend to grossly overestimate the size of PSU necessary. Doing normal things, that machine will be fine. Sure you might cause the PSU to have issues if you run Furmark 24/7, and they must have a few higher wattage units on hand to swap in for those fraction of a percent of customers who are in that case, the cost to them to deal with an RMA of the two people who will be FULLY loading a small form-factor machine is likely less than putting those PSUs in every machine to cover the same unlikely scenario for the few thousand machines that will never see that kine of power consumption. Business is business, and things can't always afford to be overbuilt.

 

[TemjinGold]

ideally you want your pc to consume around 50% of the total wattage specified on the unit.
PSUs are the most efficient around 50%, that's why you would normally take a much more powerfull unit. Another reason is noise. At 100% load it probably will make a lot of noise. Also with time the psu might degrade a little and if you have 0 headroom from start...
But then it depends on the psu. Some can be very effcient even at 20% or 100% load, it just comes with a high price tag.

250W for that setup seems very low for me too. Would make me feel little uneasy when using the pc at 100% load.

This may have been true back in the day but these days, any quality unit will deliver their best efficiency at more than just 50%. I do agree with the noise factor though.

 

[WildW]

I read a review on the 5850 that used a Kill-a-watt meter and determined the 5850 was drawing 120W at the wall. I guess if the PSU is 80% efficient then the GPU could be pulling about 100W, 8A from the 12V rail. Suddenly it looks halfway plausible.

 

[frostedflakes]

That's really pushing it, more than I personally would be comfortable running on a 250W PSU. But as long as you didn't overclock or push the system too hard with stress testing software, it'd probably be OK.

During normal gaming, for example, HD 5850 only uses about 100W ( http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/HIS/HD_5850/28.html ). It's only when you load up something incredibly demanding like Furmark that the card approaches the 151W TDP. Probably the same story for the CPU, during normal use I doubt it uses 95W. Maybe closer to 80W, something like that.

 

[Zap]

The point of the Shuttle was a cheap LAN box. The SG41J1 Plus is basically the same price as those two Silverstone cases, but includes motherboard and PSU.
...
Edit: I note the Silverstones come with PSU too, not so bad as I thought. Will have to investigate mobo prices.

Amazon has a white Silverstone SG05 for $93 or a black one for $105. These prices includes free shipping, making these a super hot deal compared to Newegg. These look to be Amazon's regular prices, as they've been this price for months.

The included PSU is made by FSP, is 80Plus certified and puts out 22.5A +12v. It has a single 6-pin PCIe power plug.

The good thing about the Silverstone case is that the included PSU is standard SFX sized, meaning you can easily get replacements. Also, if you end up building a monster rig in one, you can opt for the version with the 450W PSU (or buy the PSU separately).

Do you already have the CPU or RAM? If you have to buy one or the other, may as well skip socket 775. You can get an ECS socket 1156 motherboard (yeah yeah, not 1155) for $65 after rebate. It uses DDR3 memory and has a PCIe x16 slot. Also, you can get CPUs starting just under $100 (socket 1156 Pentium Dual Core G9650) that outperforms socket 775 Pentium dual cores, though at a bit higher cost. It also uses less power.

 

[WildW]

Amazon has a white Silverstone SG05 for $93 or a black one for $105. These prices includes free shipping, making these a super hot deal compared to Newegg. These look to be Amazon's regular prices, as they've been this price for months.

The included PSU is made by FSP, is 80Plus certified and puts out 22.5A +12v. It has a single 6-pin PCIe power plug.

The good thing about the Silverstone case is that the included PSU is standard SFX sized, meaning you can easily get replacements. Also, if you end up building a monster rig in one, you can opt for the version with the 450W PSU (or buy the PSU separately).

Do you already have the CPU or RAM? If you have to buy one or the other, may as well skip socket 775. You can get an ECS socket 1156 motherboard (yeah yeah, not 1155) for $65 after rebate. It uses DDR3 memory and has a PCIe x16 slot. Also, you can get CPUs starting just under $100 (socket 1156 Pentium Dual Core G9650) that outperforms socket 775 Pentium dual cores, though at a bit higher cost. It also uses less power.

Thanks Zap, those look like good deals. I wish my country had such good prices :/

 

[Zap]

DOH, UK! Didn't notice.

 

[Termie]

I wouldn't build up a quad-core/HD5850 system on a 250w PSU. My mildly overclocked and stock-volted i7-860 and HD5850 pull 265 from the wall during gaming, or about 220w from the PSU. Running Furmark, however, takes it to about 300w, or 250W from the PSU. So you'd be running the PSU at or near max whenever it was loaded, with components similar to those listed by Shuttle. I think that's too high.

Different story with dual-core or Sandy Bridge though. I could easily load my e8400/GTX460 system on a 250w PSU. It only pulls 200-210 from the wall.

 

[ElFenix]

eh, a guy on spcr is running a 4890 (about 25 watts more power than the 5850) and an x3 720 (about 20 watts less than a 9650) with a seasonic 300. in a burn test he calculates his actual output is 240 watts or less (not the 80 plus certified model). so what shuttle claims is right on the line, but it should work. also, that's a burn test. useful loads would be lower.