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DeRailur

Banned
Dec 7, 2003
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Cas Latency: 3-4-4-8 1T

saw this on newegg and a few other places. ive been in iraq for awhile and have missed out on alot of technology, or more probably marketing strategies. i can remember a one numeral cas rating i.e. cas 2, cas3....

can someone break down this string of numbers for me and what they mean etc?



 

Duvie

Elite Member
Feb 5, 2001
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Originally posted by: DeRailur
Cas Latency: 3-4-4-8 1T

saw this on newegg and a few other places. ive been in iraq for awhile and have missed out on alot of technology, or more probably marketing strategies. i can remember a one numeral cas rating i.e. cas 2, cas3....

can someone break down this string of numbers for me and what they mean etc?


Well the frst number is the cas latency of 3....

The other numbers are things like delay, precharge, etc....

Tha main thing so I don't know all the tech terms for them all but this is slow....

I have tested ram at 510mz ddr with these timings versus ram running at 400mhz ddr (both had same cpu speed and fsb) but with cas 2,5,3,3 (tight, aggressive timings) and they were equal to the lower ram even was better performance in some apps....

These settings are quite normal for most pc4000 or greater stuff now, but I wouldn't get anything below pc4000 with these timings...Much better stff available. Also I wouldn't get overbloated expensive pc4000-pc4300 stuff now cause I have seen first hand ram speed is highly overrated when you have crap timngs like this...
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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I'm running a 3.2 @ 3.6 with Muskin Level II PC3500 at 2-3-2-6 timings. :) \

I can go quite a bit higher with looser timings, but I don't think I want to.

BTW, it will run at 2-2-2-6 at 3.2.

The only thing is, to get this RAM to run these timings you have to bump the DDR voltage to 2.75. They even suggest this on their website.
 

DeRailur

Banned
Dec 7, 2003
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as i can see you arent too well versed/concerned with what the other numbers mean. am i to assume that the only number that matters is the first one as it gives the cas latency for this particular ram? if anyone else has any input on the meanings/importance of the other numbers i would much appreciate it. thanks :)
 

dguy6789

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2002
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2 2 2 6 is the BEST possible. Any more or any less on any of the settings results in less performance. 2 2 2 5 or 2 2 2 7 is slower then 2 2 2 6.
 

THUGSROOK

Elite Member
Feb 3, 2001
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Originally posted by: dguy6789
2 2 2 6 is the BEST possible. Any more or any less on any of the settings results in less performance. 2 2 2 5 or 2 2 2 7 is slower then 2 2 2 6.
yep
i still dont understand why ppl run cas5.
i guess they never bothered to test the actual performance or used something stupid like 3dmark.
come to think of it ~ they prolly didnt even test for stability either ;)

i run c2226, full GAT :)
 

DeRailur

Banned
Dec 7, 2003
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Amused, very good link my friend, answered all of my questions. Hmmm what to ask next hehe.......
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
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This is what I gather from the site linked to below.

You have 4 values there...
tRCD (RAS to CAS delay) - the delay in clock cycles from the time the row is activated until the CAS command can be given
CAS Latency (Column Address Strobe) - the delay from the time the CAS signal is sent to the time data is available
tRP (RAS precharge) - the delay in clock cycles needed to deactivate the active row before it can access another row
tRAS - the minum amount of time in clock cycles from the time the row becomes active (tRCD) to the time the row is deactivated (tRP)

So a speed of 3-4-4-8 means it takes 3 clock cycles for the row to be activated, then it takes 4 clock cycles for the read command to be issued till data is available, then it takes 4 clock cycles for the row to be deactivated... and the last spec just says it must take no shorter than 8 clock cycles for the previous 3 events to happen, which as you can see, shouldn't make a difference since at minimum it takes 11 clock cycles for those 3 events to happen.

There's also a 5th spec that you didn't mention

Command Rate - the delay in clock cycles from the time the chip (the individual chip on the memory "stick") is selected until commands to activate row, etc. can be made

Corsair's Explanation

*EDIT*

This sheds some light into Duvie's "timing vs clock speed" thread. These measurements of clock cycles are in reference to the speed of the RAM... so... think about it.

Lets say you're running 3-4-4-8, it takes a minimum of 11 clock cycles for the RAM to be accessed. Lets also say you're running a P4 2.4C @ 3.0 Ghz on a 250 Mhz FSB with 1:1 memory ratio. At 250 Mhz, that's 250 million clock cycles per second, and this operation takes a minimum of 11, so if you divide 250 million by 11, you get about 22.7 million, which is the maximum times RAM can be accessed in one second with a 250 Mhz FSB with 3-4-4-8 RAM timings.

So lets say you run a RAM divider and get the RAM speed back down to 200 Mhz, and that allows you to run 2-2-2-6. That means it takes a minimum of 6 clock cycles for RAM to be access. So lets figure it out again. 200 million divided by 6 = about 33.3 million times the RAM can be accessed in one second with a 200 Mhz FSB with 2-2-2-6 RAM timings.

This doesn't take one thing into consideration. The amount of data being read. Once a CAS command is given to read the data, it can read as much data from that row as it needs until it needs to move to a different row to read. That's where the clock speed makes a difference, once the CAS command is given, you have more memory bandwidth at 250 Mhz than at 200 Mhz, so the whole row of data can be read faster at 250 Mhz than at 200... BUT it will need more time to move to the next row.
 

NesuD

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
4,999
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3-4-4-8 1t=cas latency(3) - RAS to CAS delay(4) - RAS Precharge(4) - (TRAS)Cycle time(8) - Not sure on the description for the t-command(1t) I think it is specific to DDR ram though. Those ar epretty conservative timings by the way. I run My Corsair XMS c3200 at 2-3-2-11 1T
 

DeRailur

Banned
Dec 7, 2003
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Ok with my newly acquired knowledge, I have begun searching for a good set of ram to fill my dual chan mobo when I get it. I have already ordered a p4 2.4c from zipzoomfly and will prolly get an Abit ic7 max3. I would obviously like to oc this rig to its fullest potential. The question......

I've been looking at pc4000 mem on the hopes that i can push the fsb as high as possible, I will be using a liquid cooled solution. The best cas ratings I've seen for this type of mem is 2.5-3

Has anyone PERSONALLY been able to run their FSB at 250 with mem set to CAS 2, and if so what type of mem was it and what mobo was it on. More specifically, I'm looking for the most aggressive memory settings achieved with the mem running at 250 (+??). And again I ask that these numbers be from PERSONAL experience, not what you read or what a buddy said he got. Thanks!
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
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DeRailur... look at my post... that should shed some light onto WHY things are they way they are.
 

Amused

Elite Member
Apr 14, 2001
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Originally posted by: DeRailur
Amused, very good link my friend, answered all of my questions. Hmmm what to ask next hehe.......

Glad I could be of help. :)
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
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Originally posted by: dguy6789
2 2 2 6 is the BEST possible. Any more or any less on any of the settings results in less performance. 2 2 2 5 or 2 2 2 7 is slower then 2 2 2 6.

Actually 2-2-2-5 should give the same performance as 2-2-2-6 since that last number only specifies the MINIMUM... and since the first 3 numbers ad up to 6, 6 would be the minimum. If you set it at 7, then there would be a "wasted" clock cycle assuming the data transfer could be accomplished in less than 1 clock cycle.
 

THUGSROOK

Elite Member
Feb 3, 2001
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Jeff ~ in theory, but not reality. at least not on intel systems.

for years now ive tested 2225 vs 2226 on various (intel) platforms....
unless youre running a very low 266-333ddr ~ 2226 is as fast or faster.
2225 seems to be overkill past that point.

then you got guys running something like c2435.... im not sure wth happens in that sort of sitution, but i cant see it being good ;)
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
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Originally posted by: THUGSROOK
Jeff ~ in theory, but not reality. at least not on intel systems.

for years now ive tested 2225 vs 2226 on various (intel) platforms....
unless youre running a very low 266-333ddr ~ 2226 is as fast or faster.
2225 seems to be overkill past that point.

then you got guys running something like c2435.... im not sure wth happens in that sort of sitution, but i cant see it being good ;)

That's what I'm saying 2-2-2-5 will be no different in actual use because that last figure is a minimum amount of clock cycles, but because the first three figures ad up to 6, it makes the minimum of 5 meaningless. It's like driving in a car with 3 other people so there's 4 total, and telling them that at least 3 people can fit in your car... duh! :D
 

DeRailur

Banned
Dec 7, 2003
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thats all cool. but im wondering what, if any, pc4000 will run at cas 2 @ 250 mhz. i am wanting personal results here folks. i have seen reports of 2.4s runnong well past 3.2g. and im sure this is with a ratio of 5:4 at a min. but im concerned with ram speeds. so please give me some results here folks. top speeds and maker/model.
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
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Currently there is no PC4000 RAM that's CAS 2.0. AnandTech has done a few reviews on RAM in the past couple months, check em out... most likely that's the info you're looking for.
 

screw3d

Diamond Member
Nov 6, 2001
6,906
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Umm.. so I'm running 7-2-3-2, with the 3 being the RAS to CAS access. Should I make it 6-2-3-2 instead? :confused:
 

JustStarting

Diamond Member
Dec 13, 2000
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I tried THUGS theory here on my old Epox 8K5A2+. It ain't the fastest rig, but my NF7-S is awaiting a new video card. I did back to back Sandra2004 runs using 2-2-2-5-1T, and then again @ 2-2-2-6-1T. I could not believe until I tested it myself. The 2-2-26-1T was faster!!

2-2-2-5-1T= 2450/2339 and 2451/2340

2-2-2-6-1T= 2498/2354 and 2499/2354

Good info there THUGS!!

Both tests on fresh restarts and minimal apps running, so the results are real world.
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
6,575
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So, you guys are saying that if I set my memory to 2223, it will be slower.
 

DeRailur

Banned
Dec 7, 2003
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OK OK

I didnt start this thread with the intent of it being used to ask for specific settings for an individual's memory.


Jeff, I realize that there is no pc4000 memory SOLD as CAS 2. My question is:

Does anyone have any pc4000 memory that they run at 500mhz(+??)? And if so, what are the most aggressive memory settings that it will function at stable?? What is the brand and model of this memory?

That is all.........for now
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
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Originally posted by: screw3d
Umm.. so I'm running 7-2-3-2, with the 3 being the RAS to CAS access. Should I make it 6-2-3-2 instead? :confused:

It "shouldn't" matter. Since 2+3+2 = 7... if you set it to 6, 6 would be the set minimum, but it would be impossible for it to be only 6 clock cycles since the other operations take at least 7. But as THUGS mentioned, and someone else tested, sometimes you get better performance by using a different setting... like some people swear 2-2-2-11 is fastest. As far as that goes, I don't have an explanation as to why, other than maybe synthetic benchmarks are run exactly the same each time, and by using 2-2-2-11 it might be more favorable to the size and quantity of data chunks being read or written in the test the benchmark runs. I'll have to do a little more research to find out.