Should welfare recipients be allowed to have luxury items?

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Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
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I like said, I could live without tv/cable and a lot of stuffs but AC is a necessity in the Southern parts of US.
My AC just kicked on. The house just hit 78. It's the middle of winter.

It is literally life-support where I live; it would be like not having heating in the winter for people in the north.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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My AC just kicked on. The house just hit 78. It's the middle of winter.

It is literally life-support where I live; it would be like not having heating in the winter for people in the north.

How did the human race survive prior to 50 years ago?
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
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How did the human race survive prior to 50 years ago?

Try 70 years ago; and many would die of heat exhaustion.

Which is why housing and public buildings here where designed to have very high ceilings (30+ ft) and windows placed to maximize air flow; further prolonged exposure to high heat lease to a buildup of salt and wade retention which increases blood pressure and other weight related problems.


So yes, by redesigning buildings we can cut the ac and only have to worry about the associated health problems and dead old people.
 

Tom

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
13,293
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same people who want to cut welfare want to cut funding for libraries.

btw, what if some welfare person checks out a book for fun ?

can't have that.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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Try 70 years ago; and many would die of heat exhaustion.

Which is why housing and public buildings here where designed to have very high ceilings (30+ ft) and windows placed to maximize air flow; further prolonged exposure to high heat lease to a buildup of salt and wade retention which increases blood pressure and other weight related problems.


So yes, by redesigning buildings we can cut the ac and only have to worry about the associated health problems and dead old people.

Than you should take issue with those that approve building projects for section 8 housing. AC is not a necessity, people weren't falling down dead everywhere you looked before AC, and people without AC aren't falling dead in any sizable portion, those that do are more often than not those with other health issues.
 

alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
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It's like people don't realize there were tons of apartments even early on in our country, esp in New York and other original industrial areas. Many are still in use and simply have been renovated.

AC is not a necessity, nor is internet. Most of these types are getting jobs at the mall/retail/grocery level. Many of those places have kiosks in the store to apply.

I love the argument that a non-educated welfare recepient needs access to Monster.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
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www.slatebrookfarm.com
I have family in rural Texas who used to drive 2 hours each way to get groceries, but even their podunk village has its own store now. Where do you live that riding a bus or bike isn't an option? I've walked, biked, and used public transportation to get groceries or go wherever I need to go (while in high school, working in Europe, waiting for new-ish car parts to push the life of my beater car through grad school).

I've been reading lots of books on early education and future success in areas requiring higher education. There are plenty of people who have achieved at the highest level despite being essentially illiterate as a child growing up in the sticks. There are also plenty of people given every advantage who fail. Maybe giving kids these advantages increases the probability that they will achieve to their fullest potential, but that's certainly debatable at this point. In any case, if internet access is really necessary for schooling, it should be available at school. That's a much more cost-effective option than putting a computer and internet in every person's home and will achieve most of the same benefits.

It was 20 degrees below zero yesterday, wind chills around 30 below. The sides of the road have been covered with snow/ice, etc., for over 2 months, except for about 3 days. The nearest store is a hair more than 5 miles away.
You're going to <laugh> ride a bike this time of year? You'd be an idiot to try. Public transportation? Wtf is that?

And, yes, internet access is available at school, along with a lot of computers. Brilliant idea! Then, after the student stays after school to work on a project, he can walk 15 miles to get home, because YOU don't think a car is necessary. Ohhhh, I get it, students should only be taught for about 3 hours of the day, so they can spend the rest of the time in studyhalls, etc. The majority of students I have are lucky to have 1 studyhall every day. Homework - when students would otherwise be working on these projects - puts students without Internet access at home at a great disadvantage.

(Here's where you point out, "then let them walk to the library.") 6 miles away (from me), up to 12 or 13 miles for many students. I think they have half a dozen computers. Maybe they should build a 30,000 square foot addition for a giant computer lab, so they have room for all the students who you don't want to have computers?
 
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alkemyst

No Lifer
Feb 13, 2001
83,769
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It was 20 degrees below zero yesterday, wind chills around 30 below. The sides of the road have been covered with snow/ice, etc., for over 2 months, except for about 3 days. The nearest store is a hair more than 5 miles away.
You're going to <laugh> ride a bike this time of year? You'd be an idiot to try. Public transportation? Wtf is that?

And, yes, internet access is available at school, along with a lot of computers. Brilliant idea! Then, after the student stays after school to work on a project, he can walk 15 miles to get home, because YOU don't think a car is necessary. Ohhhh, I get it, students should only be taught for about 3 hours of the day, so they can spend the rest of the time in studyhalls, etc. The majority of students I have are lucky to have 1 studyhall every day. Homework - when students would otherwise be working on these projects - puts students without Internet access at home at a great disadvantage.

(Here's where you point out, "then let them walk to the library.") 6 miles away (from me), up to 12 or 13 miles for many students. I think they have half a dozen computers. Maybe they should build a 30,000 square foot addition for a giant computer lab, so they have room for all the students who you don't want to have computers?

Wait, everyone should be given the same advantages in life?

You want to go to Socialism or Communism?
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,164
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I don't really understand welfare. We have unemployment for unemployed, we have disabillity for disabled, we have welfare for who? the useless?
 

Orignal Earl

Diamond Member
Oct 27, 2005
8,059
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How did the human race survive prior to 50 years ago?

This seems to be your answer to a lot of this.
You know those Americans were almost an entirely different race of people compared to you today
They would of brought in anyone suffering from cold and hunger into their homes and offered up the best of what little they had to the stranger.
You would probablly get scared and take few shots at the door (hopeing for a clean kill) while calling in swat team.
And then charge for trespassing
 

bfdd

Lifer
Feb 3, 2007
13,312
1
0
Honestly... you people with your AC's are a necessity are fucking retarded. If the average temperature year round is not over 85F I see no need for an AC. Sorry there is just none, you shouldn't be over heating if you stay hydrated and water is cheaper than an AC. You and others who NEED an AC to live in Southern California or some place where it gets moderately warm need to seriously shut up. It is NOT bad and it is much easier to get cool than get warm.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
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This seems to be your answer to a lot of this.
You know those Americans were almost an entirely different race of people compared to you today
They would of brought in anyone suffering from cold and hunger into their homes and offered up the best of what little they had to the stranger.
You would probablly get scared and take few shots at the door (hopeing for a clean kill) while calling in swat team.
And then charge for trespassing

Pretty bold assumption, but I expect nothing less from the intrawebz, and it has nothing what so ever to do with AC being a necessity.
 

werepossum

Elite Member
Jul 10, 2006
29,873
463
126
This seems to be your answer to a lot of this.
You know those Americans were almost an entirely different race of people compared to you today
They would of brought in anyone suffering from cold and hunger into their homes and offered up the best of what little they had to the stranger.
You would probablly get scared and take few shots at the door (hopeing for a clean kill) while calling in swat team.
And then charge for trespassing
50 years ago Americans had values and principles and were typically Christian. No one worried that if bum showed up, because we didn't have serial killers or thrill killers or people that just don't care if you live or die. 50 years ago the tramp came to your back door (not the front door, that would be presumptuous) to ask if you had any work he could do to EARN a meal. Things were a lot different. Now tramps and bums are entitled; they aren't gratefully looking to chop some wood for a meal, they're demanding a home, support, cable TV and the Internet. Now tramps and bums are hard to distinguish from the teenager who shoots the clerk AFTER getting the money, the convict who rapes your wife and daughter and then sets them on fire, the perv who kidnaps and rapes children and then buries them alive. 50 years ago America had a LOT less evil.

I grew up in a small rental house with a tin roof in extreme southern Tennessee. Didn't have air conditioning, never missed it, by far most of my friends didn't have it either. When I was twelve my folks built a brick house with central heat and air, but my mother's parents never had it. My grandfather died two years ago and had never had air conditioning, nor wanted it (he could have afforded it.) It's not a necessity anywhere for a single family home, period. It probably is a necessity for apartments, though, in much of the country. Very few apartments have provisions for cross ventilation, and bigger apartment complexes often have windows on only one side. That's a death trap in a hot climate. Still, we're talking about luxuries. I wouldn't recommend building any single family housing for welfare recipients, and I wouldn't recommend building any single or multi-family housing today without air conditioning, even for welfare recipients.
 
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Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
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Than you should take issue with those that approve building projects for section 8 housing. AC is not a necessity, people weren't falling down dead everywhere you looked before AC, and people without AC aren't falling dead in any sizable portion, those that do are more often than not those with other health issues.

I didnt come up wit a moronic ban on them buying their own AC.

No AC leads to long term health issues; People lived before penicillin and safe drinking water; should we deny those who are in need the right to those luxuries too?

"It's not a necessity anywhere for a single family home, period."

it averages over90 w/ 80&#37; humidity at night here for weeks at a time; many of the mexicans living in shanty towns here die from the heat.

Even ventalation can't save you when sweat dosent evaporate.
 
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Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
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All the discussion on AC? AC, by and large, and more of necessity than TV, Internet, or game consoles. While I would consider Internet access increasingly necessary, I don't have a problem with welfare recipients having subsidized heating/cooling. I have a problem with them spending the tax dollars I give them on 40in LCD TVs, PS3s, Xboxes, and high end gadgets. I have no problem with they spending my tax dollars on food, 'regular' clothing(not designer, Gucci stuff), their own education, medical care, etc.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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I didnt come up wit a moronic bann on them buying there own AC.

No one is talking about a ban retard. The discussion is necessities vs luxuries, and AC isn't a necessity no matter how many times you try to say it is. Some people have a legitimate need to have an AC, but the VAST majority of people in this country could get by just fine without it.

No AC leads to long term health issues;

You are so full of shit it's coming out of your pixelated ears.

People lived before penicillin and safe drinking water; should we deny those who are in need the right to those luxuries too?

Calling drinking water, an antibiotics "luxuries" because makes your argument sound like it might have a leg to stand on is so disingenuous it isn't even funny, as if either has any relation what so ever to people being cool and comfy in their house during the summer.

it averages over90 w/ 80% humidity at night here for weeks at a time; many of the mexicans living in shanty towns here die from the heat.

Even ventalation can't save you when sweat dosent evaporate.

We didn't have AC through this entire last summer, or the five months before it and we were perfectly fine. This is south Texas, and it averages a lot hotter than 90 during the summer.
 

Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
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All the discussion on AC? AC, by and large, and more of necessity than TV, Internet, or game consoles. While I would consider Internet access increasingly necessary, I don't have a problem with welfare recipients having subsidized heating/cooling. I have a problem with them spending the tax dollars I give them on 40in LCD TVs, PS3s, Xboxes, and high end gadgets. I have no problem with they spending my tax dollars on food, 'regular' clothing(not designer, Gucci stuff), their own education, medical care, etc.

That's the thing though; you can live off of beans rice and tortillas and save over $200 a month over the family that eats meat loaf, lasagna spegeti and meat balls etc.

So by budgeting eating more humbly a poor family can have money left over; enough to buy all of the things you mentioned in less than a year.


Should we punish those that can budget?

These are not lazy people: for the most part they are the working poor.
 

yllus

Elite Member & Lifer
Aug 20, 2000
20,577
432
126
It was 20 degrees below zero yesterday, wind chills around 30 below. The sides of the road have been covered with snow/ice, etc., for over 2 months, except for about 3 days. The nearest store is a hair more than 5 miles away.
You're going to <laugh> ride a bike this time of year? You'd be an idiot to try. Public transportation? Wtf is that?

And, yes, internet access is available at school, along with a lot of computers. Brilliant idea! Then, after the student stays after school to work on a project, he can walk 15 miles to get home, because YOU don't think a car is necessary. Ohhhh, I get it, students should only be taught for about 3 hours of the day, so they can spend the rest of the time in studyhalls, etc. The majority of students I have are lucky to have 1 studyhall every day. Homework - when students would otherwise be working on these projects - puts students without Internet access at home at a great disadvantage.

(Here's where you point out, "then let them walk to the library.") 6 miles away (from me), up to 12 or 13 miles for many students. I think they have half a dozen computers. Maybe they should build a 30,000 square foot addition for a giant computer lab, so they have room for all the students who you don't want to have computers?

I imagine the solution in your case is to do what we Canadians did many decades ago: Keep the children home during the winter, at least until the snowfalls weren't taller than they were.

There is, perhaps, something to be said for recognizing what market forces are plainly saying. Perhaps the new reality is that not all rural areas should be served by public education. Moving to a larger city centre may be required, or a private option.
 

DrPizza

Administrator Elite Member Goat Whisperer
Mar 5, 2001
49,601
166
111
www.slatebrookfarm.com
Wait, everyone should be given the same advantages in life?

You want to go to Socialism or Communism?

I imagine the solution in your case is to do what we Canadians did many decades ago: Keep the children home during the winter, at least until the snowfalls weren't taller than they were.

There is, perhaps, something to be said for recognizing what market forces are plainly saying. Perhaps the new reality is that not all rural areas should be served by public education. Moving to a larger city centre may be required, or a private option.

The point is rather simple - in rural areas, due to how the economy has changed from times when the country was much more agrarian to how it is now, a car is not a "luxury." Denying a public education to those who live in rural areas is pretty nonsensical.

As far as "same advantages" - in public education it should be a pretty level playing field for children.
 

Svnla

Lifer
Nov 10, 2003
17,986
1,388
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No one is talking about a ban retard. The discussion is necessities vs luxuries, and AC isn't a necessity no matter how many times you try to say it is. Some people have a legitimate need to have an AC, but the VAST majority of people in this country could get by just fine without it.......

Hummm, getting by? Yes.

Getting by "fine" without it? Nope. When you sweat like a pig while trying to sleep =! fine. Keep in mind the heat in the South is NOT dry heat like heat in Arizona/Nevada. It is hot AND humid = misery...and no, I am not a fat pig but a decent size person.

I know some of you are going to say "but..but ..but..how could people live without a/c and other stuffs before?"..Hummm..see my previous post about then and now (living conditions/housing standards/etc.). No, you will not die if you don't have a/c (unless you are a sick/elderly person) but you will be miserable.

<<----grew up in the South of the US and live in the tri-state areas (Texas/Louisiana/Arkansas) for the last 20 plus years so I DO know what I am talking about.
 
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Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
That's the thing though; you can live off of beans rice and tortillas and save over $200 a month over the family that eats meat loaf, lasagna spegeti and meat balls etc.

So by budgeting eating more humbly a poor family can have money left over; enough to buy all of the things you mentioned in less than a year.


Should we punish those that can budget?

These are not lazy people: for the most part they are the working poor.

There are plenty of lazy people on welfare, don't sugar coat it. Perhaps personal finance education should be required along with regular accountability of expenses so the funds can be tracked? If they get 1K a month in welfare checks, they should be held accountable to report where/what they spent that money on. It'd become obvious pretty quick who was honest and who was not. Still, wouldn't expect it to be a smooth program, its a government thing after all.

Hummm, getting by? Yes.

Getting by "fine" without it? Nope. When you sweat like a pig while trying to sleep =! fine. Keep in mind the heat in the South is NOT dry heat like heat in Arizona/Nevada. It is hot AND humid = misery...and no, I am not a fat pig but a decent size person.

<<----grew up in the South of the US and live in the tri-state areas (Texas/Louisiana/Arkansas) for the last 20 plus years so I DO know what I am talking about.


I've lived in Phoenix since 2003. Without AC in the summer, you're going to die. Why do you think all the bums ride the light rail around? Its air conditioned. Panhandle enough for a ticket, ride it around all day. You still sweat like a pig when its 120F, you just don't realize it until you pass out.
 
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Dr. Zaus

Lifer
Oct 16, 2008
11,764
347
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We didn't have AC through this entire last summer, or the five months before it and we were perfectly fine. This is south Texas, and it averages a lot hotter than 90 during the summer.
So you're good with the long term physical harm that living in constantly in high temperatures causes?

If being south counts as points I win; I am 3hours south of San Antonio.

As far as "same advantages" - in public education it should be a pretty level playing field for children.
Hum... At the grade school private education should exist; but we should fund public education to the point that private education is a waste of money.

The same goes for universities.

We should be as egalitarian as possible without discouraging innovation and efficient (read non-governmental) job creation.

There are plenty of lazy people on welfare, don't sugar coat it. Perhaps personal finance education should be required along with regular accountability of expenses so the funds can be tracked? If they get 1K a month in welfare checks, they should be held accountable to report where/what they spent that money on. It'd become obvious pretty quick who was honest and who was not. Still, wouldn't expect it to be a smooth program, its a government thing after all.
While an interesting idea: this would still mean that those that spent their money wisely would be punished for doing so.
 
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xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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Hummm, getting by? Yes.

Getting by "fine" without it? Nope.
<<----grew up in the South of the US and live in the tri-state areas (Texas/Louisiana/Arkansas) for the last 20 plus years so I DO know what I am talking about.

I've been in south Texas for over 30 years, I know exactly what hot and humid is, and it is still not a necessity. Comfort is not a necessity.

There are plenty of lazy people on welfare, don't sugar coat it. Perhaps personal finance education should be required along with regular accountability of expenses so the funds can be tracked? If they get 1K a month in welfare checks, they should be held accountable to report where/what they spent that money on. It'd become obvious pretty quick who was honest and who was not. Still, wouldn't expect it to be a smooth program, its a government thing after all.

The resources to accurately track the spending of everyone, or even a majority of the people on welfare would be a logistic nightmare.

I've lived in Phoenix since 2003. Without AC in the summer, you're going to die.

I lived in NM for three months one summer, loved it, it was hotter than here, but a nice dry heat, swamp coolers are great. Also got to spend a whole summer in Iraq where the only real AC was in the chow hall, humping 60+lbs of gear for hours, you aren't going to die because you aren't comfy. Like I've said, some people have legitimate medical need for a cooler environment, if you don't it is just a comfort issue, not a necessity of life.
 

xj0hnx

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2007
9,262
3
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So you're good with the long term physical harm that living constantly in high temperatures causes?

Like what? You keep saying that, but haven't shown me anything. Your house isn't a microwave, your brain isn't going to boil, even in the middle of summer with all your windows closed. There are MILLIONS of people that survive just fine everyday in heat that you are claiming causes "long term physical harm", millions of them.