Should we stop using the terms Progressive/Interlaced?

[mizzou]

I am NOT a videophile, I'll admit. I have tried to understand video formats many times, at it can be a very confusing thing.

So we still say stuff like "Game in 1080p" or "Monitor supports 1080p"

Since we are, for the most part, all utilizing LCD or plasma screens, isn't saying something like that as using "progressive scan" technology, actually incorrect?

Aren't interlacing/progressive scans old tech used in CRT's?

Can't we just say (1920x1080 resolution monitor) (1280x720 resolution monitor)

Can't we just say "Stretched/Scaled" image instead of "upconverting/downconverting" If you say "Monitor will scale images to native resolution", that makes alot more sense to me then "upconverting" because the latter implies you get some sort of content quality boost that you wouldn't receive otherwise.

When reading an article like this, it seems like a way overcomplicated way to say "The software zooms in/or/stretches the image to fill your screen"

http://askville.amazon.com/upconverting-DVD-player/AnswerViewer.do?requestId=5434097

(clearly there is a difference between an analog output and digital output, but I thought that was more image quality then the ability of the DVD Player to output video onto a screen and have that image displayed, stretched, at your TV's native resolution)


Anyway, I find all this stuff fascinating. With the oncoming 4k resolutions, I wonder what trivial marketing nonsense they will create to confuse mom & pop who just want a TV to watch their "shows".

 

[rudeguy]

most tv signals are broadcast in 1080i/720p

 

[Viper GTS]

If you want to speak solely in the context of PC displays sure feel free to speak in pixel resolutions.

The broadcasting world won't be changing any time soon.

Viper GTS

 

[jhu]

Of course. You should call it Democrat/Republican.

 

[mizzou]

most tv signals are broadcast in 1080i/720p

Gotcha


So even though your TV is not capable of reading or producing interlaced signals, it can read an interlaced signal? Or is it that your TV "deinterlaces" the video since it cannot read an interlaced signal?


From wikipedia"Some cameras and broadcast systems that use 1080 vertical lines per frame do not actually use the full 1920 pixels of a nominal 1080i picture for image capture and encoding. Common subsampling ratios include 3/4 (resulting in 1440x1080i frame resolution) and 1/2 (resulting in 960x1080i frame resolution). Where used, the lower horizontal resolution is scaled to capture and/or display a full-sized picture. Using half horizontal resolution and only one field of each frame (possibly with added anti-alias filtering or progressive capture) results in the format known as qHD, which has frame resolution 960x540 and 30 or 25 frames per second."

Wow, that is confusing...so 1080i could be anything :| Why not just send a fucking regular signal? Is it because CRT tv's still exist on the marketplace?

 

[Jeff7]

...

Anyway, I find all this stuff fascinating. With the oncoming 4k resolutions, I wonder what trivial marketing nonsense they will create to confuse mom & pop who just want a TV to watch their "shows".

My parents still have a CRT TV. That should be an interesting conversion for them whenever it finally gives out, and then an interesting time for me as well, to teach my dad how to use it. :\

 

[videogames101]

nowadays 1080i just means half the image is updated at a time, and yes your tv can read that

 

[mizzou]

My parents still have a CRT TV. That should be an interesting conversion for them whenever it finally gives out, and then an interesting time for me as well, to teach my dad how to use it. :\

I tried to give away my 42" LCD to my inlaws, they said no thanks because it would be "too much trouble" to toss out their gigantic CRT Tv (which can't even do 480p)

 

[mizzou]

nowadays 1080i just means half the image is updated at a time, and yes your tv can read that

http://hometheater.about.com/od/hometheatervideobasics/qt/The-Difference-Between-720p-And-1080i.htm

Just found, this article made it very clear and straightforward for me

 

[manly]

I tried to give away my 42" LCD to my inlaws, they said no thanks because it would be "too much trouble" to toss out their gigantic CRT Tv (which can't even do 480p)

If you're local, I'll take that TV.

Their refusal doesn't make much sense, don't most areas have free E-waste collection about once a year? (i.e. Earth Day)

 

[rudeguy]

I tried to give away my 42" LCD to my inlaws, they said no thanks because it would be "too much trouble" to toss out their gigantic CRT Tv (which can't even do 480p)

I'll pay shipping.

PM me your PayPal email

 

[mizzou]

If you're local, I'll take that TV.

Their refusal doesn't make much sense, don't most areas have free E-waste collection about once a year? (i.e. Earth Day)

it's one of those 40-50 inch rear projection types, a behemoth!

 

[Mixolydian]

I tried to give away my 42" LCD to my inlaws, they said no thanks because it would be "too much trouble" to toss out their gigantic CRT Tv (which can't even do 480p)

I see those things sit outside for weeks at a time. People put them out for the trash (which they won't collect TV's) and people don't even want those huge things for free anymore.

 

[mmntech]

most tv signals are broadcast in 1080i/720p

Yep. 1080p uses more bandwidth so it's rare to see broadcasts in that resolution.

1080i is sort of the happy medium. It provides good quality with less bandwidth. Half the screen gets updated every 1/60th of a second, giving an effective frame rate of 29.97fps. Though as the article mentioned above said, it produces artefacts if there's fast motion on the screen. Which is why 720p is better for sports.

Progressive scan is better for everything though in general. Interlacing is a legacy technology that's left over from the analogue CRT days. Back when you had an electron gun drawing pictures line by line. LCD and Plasma are inherently progressive so interlaced signals must be converted. TVs are a lot better at this now but older sets can introduce bad aliasing, especially from an analogue source.

 

[Williz]

Yeah 4k is going to be confusing for the "norms" 'But I already have a full hd tv!'
Let's see what the marketing guys come up with.

 

[bunnyfubbles]

Yep. 1080p uses more bandwidth so it's rare to see broadcasts in that resolution.

1080i is sort of the happy medium. It provides good quality with less bandwidth. Half the screen gets updated every 1/60th of a second, giving an effective frame rate of 29.97fps. Though as the article mentioned above said, it produces artefacts if there's fast motion on the screen. Which is why 720p is better for sports.

Progressive scan is better for everything though in general. Interlacing is a legacy technology that's left over from the analogue CRT days. Back when you had an electron gun drawing pictures line by line. LCD and Plasma are inherently progressive so interlaced signals must be converted. TVs are a lot better at this now but older sets can introduce bad aliasing, especially from an analogue source.

720p is arguably better for sports because its ultimately a higher frame rate; with proper processing, artifacts should be irrelevant for 1080i

 

[Paratus]

Ah yes. I need to do something with my old 32in Sony CRT. It does 1080i and 480p and comes with built in theft protection. It weighs 200+lbs.

The main problem with it is it doesn't have hdmi inputs. Only component and composite

 

[lamedude]

I don't think they make them anymore but interlaced plasma's do exist.

 

[SlitheryDee]

I dunno, but each one elicits a specific image in my mind that may or may not be accurate. I've never really bothered to check to see if I'm right either.

What I think they mean:

Progressive - Full frames displayed "progressively" one after the other at whatever the specified framerate is. Presumably that would be around 24-30 fps.

Interlaced - Each frame is divided in half by displaying every other line of a given frame. This would cause one frame to "lace" into the next, which would divide the amount of information required in half, but would also probably do some funky things to your perception of image quality and framerate.

If all that is wrong, then the names need to be changed. If it's correct, they are perfectly descriptive names that need to remain in use.

 

[Ken g6]

Can't we just say "Stretched/Scaled" image instead of "upconverting/downconverting" If you say "Monitor will scale images to native resolution", that makes alot more sense to me then "upconverting" because the latter implies you get some sort of content quality boost that you wouldn't receive otherwise.

But you can get a content boost, with super-resolution techniques.

With the oncoming 4k resolutions, I wonder what trivial marketing nonsense they will create to confuse mom & pop who just want a TV to watch their "shows".

Well, there's super-resolution, and for those watching 60Hz content on 120Hz TVs, there's frame interpolation.

Since this thread started with interlacing, you should check that your TV has a good "bob deinterlacer", a.k.a. field extension deinterlacer, preferably with upconverting/superresolution enhancement. Otherwise, when watching interlaced content like some TV and many DVDs, you'll be watching at 30fps.

Had enough confusing terms yet? It's my 8000th post, so I figured I should make it a good one.

 

[Rakehellion]

Anyway, I find all this stuff fascinating. With the oncoming 4k resolutions, I wonder what trivial marketing nonsense they will create to confuse mom & pop who just want a TV to watch their "shows".

Mom and pop are probably still using a CRT and don't care about resolution at all.

 

[Zee]

I'll pay shipping.

PM me your PayPal email

If you're local, I'll take that TV.

Their refusal doesn't make much sense, don't most areas have free E-waste collection about once a year? (i.e. Earth Day)

I tried to give away my 42" LCD to my inlaws, they said no thanks because it would be "too much trouble" to toss out their gigantic CRT Tv (which can't even do 480p)

I'll pay shipping AND packaging. Just bring it to a ups store and ill pay/handle the rest.

 

[rudeguy]

I'll pay shipping AND packaging. Just bring it to a ups store and ill pay/handle the rest.

Give me your address.

I'll send a box and a prepaid FedEx call tag.

 

[gevorg]

interlaced must die

 

[mmntech]

720p is arguably better for sports because its ultimately a higher frame rate; with proper processing, artifacts should be irrelevant for 1080i

Depends on the display. Older displays don't always do deinterlacing very well. When making broadcast video, you can't just assume everyone has a brand new TV.