should we severely limit who gets into college?

[Genx87]

Wait, do we blame Obama or Bush for this :hmm: :awe:

This intervention has been going on far longer than these two.

 

[yuku]

yes

Make it only for rich, privileged kids.


Then open up a ton of technical schools that actually teach things that are used in the real world. These schools should be government supported and the colleges can be privately funded by the rich people.

It will be wonderful.

You really think so? Your suggestion will make the social differentiation phenomenon more serious.

 

[OverVolt]

You really think so? Your suggestion will make the social differentiation phenomenon more serious.

No just more obvious Its already serious!

 

[pcgeek11]

Of course it's true. Your experience in life is extremely rare. Most people who are too stupid to attain their diploma and limp wrist their way through getting a GED very rarely end up in positions requiring higher education. You know this is true.

You have obviously been working at it quite a while now to be at that level without so much as a high school diploma. Lots of OTJ, lots of working your way up the ladder, etc. That means you started a while ago. I'm referring to people entering the job market NOW, not back when you did when dinosaurs ruled the planet.

That is true I have been doing it for quite some time... ~38 years. It isn't so much that they can't it is more so that they won't...

I do miss those Velociraptor steaks! They were delicious!

 

[lykaon78]

I work for a large financial services firm. We've been hiring college graduates for 5+ years for our entry level positions in our records scanning area making $24-28k/year.

Those folks are way over qualified for their work. The smart ones figure out if they bust their butt and do a good job they'll be promoted in 6 months. In my department the only way you get in is if you have a degree or the specific job experience we are looking for.

 

[ProchargeMe]

If schools in general taught real world skills instead of total bullshit I'd be happy.

 

[Vic Vega]

...

 

[Paul98]

That doesn't seem to hold true the last 20 years or so.

That's because a huge number of the really smart people find out it's much easier and very little risk to do something else.

 

[Greenman]

I assume admissions would be based on merit, which would be fine until one ethnic group was under or over represented. Then the cries of racism would be shouted from the rooftops. What we would end up with would be a system based on "fairness" in which academic achievement only played a small part in admissions.

 

[unokitty]

While there seems to be a consensus that things need to change. Though, there doesn't seem to be a consensus as to what the change needs to be.

I doubt that the status quo will hold for an extended period. Other than that, I'm not making any predictions.

Uno

 

[Pacfanweb]

Haven't read the entire thread, but here are my thoughts on this subject in general:

Not everyone is college material. Going to college isn't the best option for many, many HS students, whether they're qualified or not.

There has long been a movement to get more and more kids to go to college.....and you have FAR too many graduating with useless degrees and a mountain of student loan debt they will be under an unfair burden to pay.

There needs to be more technical and trade schools. Many of those jobs are better paying and have more opportunities than useless degrees like political science and sociology.

Now, as far as those "useless" degrees go.....IMO, if you ARE going to have them in the schools, then the cost of getting them should be commensurate with their earnings and employment potential. In other words, it shouldn't cost as much to get a sociology degree, since it's of much less use in the real world than say, and engineering or computer programming degree.....so it shouldn't cost the same. Degrees like sociology, political science, or social work aren't really any good unless you also get your Master's, and even then the value is dubious.

Those, among others, are your basic "just to say I have a degree" programs for most.

Then you can get into the value of degrees from different institutions, which is a totally different topic...but it's valid: Know what they call a person with a teaching degree from a highly-regarded state university and one from a not-so-highly-regarded university?

Teacher. But they aren't the same, are they? This holds true all over the country for many different professions.

 

[nageov3t]

I'd like to see student loans come with risk assessments.

eg: you graduated high school with a 2.0 GPA and want to immediately go to college where you'll major in fine arts? high interest rate, if you can find someone willing to loan you the money at all... want to go study HVAC repair, plumbing, or engineering? low interest rate, easy to obtain loan.

 

[NutBucket]

I voted yes. However, I don't think admissions need to be limited. It would be far more effective if the whole "if you don't go to college you're a failure" stigma went away. Its complete BS. There's no shame in being a tradesman and its a very viable career choice.

 

[rudeguy]

You really think so? Your suggestion will make the social differentiation phenomenon more serious.

Good.

The problem won't be fixed until its at least acknowledged.

 

[mammador]

We are approaching a situation where going cant ensure a better paying job. While costing more than ever!

A degree has value due to its scarcity. By making the the scarcity of a degree less, it diminishes the value of the degree.

But our economy is knowledge-based. We need a large amount of qualified people so the economy is healthy. and with India and China pumping out millions of graduates per year, then the US needs to compete somehow. Most professions/vocations that drive the economy need high skills. Plumbing, carpentry, gardening, etc. are not economic drivers thus don't need degres per se. However, the building commissioner who inspects the plumbing in a new building needs one.

So yeah, graduates won't get jobs, but due to how the economy is based we need them. it's just that the economy went through a deep recession and hasn't recovered yet.

Another thing is society. Most know that education leads to more money, and people who don't go to uni are to some extent looked down on. So with these points in mind, why should there be less uni places available?

 

[Rumpltzer]

The problem isn't a matter of limiting who can get into college; the problem is the over-offering of bullshit degrees. I'm not saying that we need to get rid of all the bullshit degrees, but we need to set a limit on the number of sociology, art therapy, philosophy, women's studies, liberal arts, etc. degrees that are offered.

The other way to do it is to make certain degrees free to undergrads similar to the way that it's done in the graduate school system. No one PAYS for a graduate engineering degree; it's free, and you get a stipend on top of that.

Attract people to useful degrees where we need them, and no more bitchy whining about not being able to get a job after graduation.

 

[mammador]

If schools in general taught real world skills instead of total bullshit I'd be happy.

you mean compulsory schools, right?

 

[drebo]

No, college should be free for everyone. More skilled workers = less dumbasses = more innovation = more cool stuff!

College education != skilled. Nor does it indicate any level of intelligence.

 

[njdevilsfan87]

I think we a society need to start taking high school a little bit more seriously. Everyone already has equal opportunity up until the age of 18. But for some reason, things don't get serious until after. Everyone takes up to it for granted up until then. The same thing would happen with college. If it's not going to cost anything, then the person going will feel like he or she has nothing to lose, and therefor not perform as well. Instant gratification almost always wins over the long term.

 

[Guurn]

Too many chiefs not enough Indians man.

A better way to say this is Too many Chiefs, not enough braves. Chiefs are also Indians. Sorry, it is a pet peeve.

Back on topic. I am very against limiting peoples education choices, especially based on age. I can only speak for myself and how things went for me. I was a terrible high school student. Not a bad kid, I just couldn't stay awake. This went on right through the first 2 years of (wasted) college education after high school. Eventually I quit and worked a typical young persons job (secretary-orderly). It wasn't until I hit 27 that everything changed. I wasn't tired all the time and I was ready to hit education hard. For the next 4 years I did education getting almost all perfect scores. I now teach masters level students.

Looking back it should have been obvious to me that nothing was wrong, some branches of my family have this as a norm. My dad for instance graduated from college at 36 and law school at 39. It is also true for us physically. My aunt took up Karate at 70 and was kicking peoples butts until she gave it up at 84, my uncle just passed level 3 Krav Maga at 74. If we waste the talents of later bloomers we are worse off as a society. The key is to let it be ready available to all at any time they feel ready. If their grades make it obvious they aren't ready get them out fast so nobody is wasting time or money.

I am also a strong believer in apprenticeships. The US is worse off every time we eliminate that path to a good career.

 

[NutBucket]

If schools in general taught real world skills instead of total bullshit I'd be happy.

Why won't they teach basic economics in high school? As you say, something useful that would *gasp* be beneficial to the average person. I mean, is more useful to know how to balance your checkbook or that the Holy Roman Empire wasn't holy, Roman or an empire?

 

[Hugo Drax]

Now if you want to be a Nanny, expect to get a college degree.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101032756

 

[Hugo Drax]

The entire system needs to change. Instead of requiring education to get a job, it should simply require knowledge/experience, and entry level jobs should not require much... because they're entry level, and that's where you should be able to go to acquire experience, and move up. It should be possible to get a job out of high school and only very specific jobs like doctor should require further education, and this education should be more applicable to the real world. I went to college for 3 years, I can't say I learned all that much that applied to my actual job, I just did it because I had to in order to get a job, not because it helped me be better at the job. I learned more during my summer break while working than I did in college. The same would be true for university, probably even more true, at least in college we did do SOME hands on stuff like Cisco.

Actually that's how it used to be.

 

[pcgeek11]

Originally Posted by Red Squirrel View Post
The entire system needs to change. Instead of requiring education to get a job, it should simply require knowledge/experience, and entry level jobs should not require much... because they're entry level, and that's where you should be able to go to acquire experience, and move up. It should be possible to get a job out of high school and only very specific jobs like doctor should require further education, and this education should be more applicable to the real world. I went to college for 3 years, I can't say I learned all that much that applied to my actual job, I just did it because I had to in order to get a job, not because it helped me be better at the job. I learned more during my summer break while working than I did in college. The same would be true for university, probably even more true, at least in college we did do SOME hands on stuff like Cisco.

Actually that's how it used to be.

Exactly. That is how I am an Electronics Tech and never graduated High School ( GED ) or College. I have been working in electronics for 38 years.

 

[mikeford]

Everybody should be allowed in that wants to go, even with poor SAT etc., but there should be ZERO drop in academic standards. Do the freshman classes in auditoriums or stadiums if need be due to size, and after the first mid term considerably smaller classes may work fine.