Should this cop be charged?

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

"The primary cause of Tramonte’s death is listed as environmental heat exposure, according to the death certificate.


Tramonte died while hiking in Phoenix, Arizona. She had gone to Camelback Mountain to hike with a man she met on Instagram a couple of months prior. The hike began around 10 a.m.


The man is a Phoenix police officer, according to CBS Boston. Officials with the Phoenix Police Department said there are no signs of foul play and the officer cooperated with investigators, the television station reported.


Tramonte became overheated and decided to turn back down while the off-duty officer continued to the summit. Authorities at the time said she may have suffered a heat-related illness and never reached the parking lot.


The off-duty officer called 911 when he returned to the vehicle in the parking lot and did not find Tramonte there."

Death of Angela Tramonte, Massachusetts woman who died while hiking in Arizona, ruled accidental by medical examiner

....................................

Another article claims witnesses said she asked him to continue to take pictures.

"“The witness also told officers, during the hike Ms. Tramonte decided to head back down the trail and asked him to continue to the top to take pictures so that she could share them on her social media,” police wrote. “The pair agreed to meet later at the car.”"

Massachusetts Woman Died After Hiking with a Phoenix Cop. Medical Examiner Says It Was an Accident.

Is that a responsible act for:

-- a trained public safety officer?
-- a resident from the area hosting a 'first date' with someone who is not from the area and may not be acclimated to the weather.
-- anyone from anywhere on a 'first date' when the guest falls ill?

 

[Fanatical Meat]

As presented probably not. He is a Cop not a Doctor.
For all we know she hated the dude and went back to the car which to me sounds likely since he didn’t go with her. Possible she said no I want to go alone.

Situation would be different if he took her out in the woods to shoot his gun and that gun blew up due to poor maintenance or obvious flaws and killed her.
He is expected to understand gun safety very, very well.

 

[fskimospy]

"The primary cause of Tramonte’s death is listed as environmental heat exposure, according to the death certificate.


Tramonte died while hiking in Phoenix, Arizona. She had gone to Camelback Mountain to hike with a man she met on Instagram a couple of months prior. The hike began around 10 a.m.


The man is a Phoenix police officer, according to CBS Boston. Officials with the Phoenix Police Department said there are no signs of foul play and the officer cooperated with investigators, the television station reported.


Tramonte became overheated and decided to turn back down while the off-duty officer continued to the summit. Authorities at the time said she may have suffered a heat-related illness and never reached the parking lot.


The off-duty officer called 911 when he returned to the vehicle in the parking lot and did not find Tramonte there."

Death of Angela Tramonte, Massachusetts woman who died while hiking in Arizona, ruled accidental by medical examiner

....................................

Another article claims witnesses said she asked him to continue to take pictures.

"“The witness also told officers, during the hike Ms. Tramonte decided to head back down the trail and asked him to continue to the top to take pictures so that she could share them on her social media,” police wrote. “The pair agreed to meet later at the car.”"

Massachusetts Woman Died After Hiking with a Phoenix Cop. Medical Examiner Says It Was an Accident.

Is that a responsible act for:

-- a trained public safety officer?
-- a resident from the area hosting a 'first date' with someone who is not from the area and may not be acclimated to the weather.
-- anyone from anywhere on a 'first date' when the guest falls ill?

What would he be charged with? I don't see any evidence of a crime here.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

What would he be charged with? I don't see any evidence of a crime here.

I am thinking but I don’t agree some sort of negligence or gross incompetence.
**As presented I do not think the Cop did anything wrong**

 

[fskimospy]

I am thinking but I don’t agree some sort of negligence or gross incompetence.
**As presented I do not think the Cop did anything wrong**

You can only be negligent for not acting if you have a duty of care to someone, and he didn't. Even if he were on duty he wouldn't be required to look after her as she hiked, and off duty he's required to do even less.

Maybe he's a dick in a personal sense, but it's not illegal to be a dick.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

You can only be negligent for not acting if you have a duty of care to someone, and he didn't. Even if he were on duty he wouldn't be required to look after her as she hiked, and off duty he's required to do even less.

Maybe he's a dick in a personal sense, but it's not illegal to be a dick.

Well yeah, I was going for the extreme reach scenario.
Or more accurately the non criminal but monetarily liable civil case.

 

[Greenman]

I can't believe this is even a question.

 

[rommelrommel]

Is this a stealth ACAB thread or something?

 

[Leeea]

Should this cop be charged?

No.

 

[pmv]

Can't imagine what criminal act he could be 'charged' with.

With the plentiful supply of examples of awful cop behaviour it seems odd to pick out this one. At most it sounds like a question for the guy's own concience to wrestle with, or maybe something the dead woman's family might feel upset with him about (and I have no idea if they'd be justified or not). Sad event, either way.

 

[sdifox]

I don't see any wrongdoing.

 

[Lost_in_the_HTTP]

I do. He had a responsibility to her, whether as a public servant with medical training, or as a resident/citizen familiar with the climate, or just as the 'decent' human being he should have been.

Criminal or civil, I hope he gets hung out to dry.

 

[fskimospy]

I do. He had a responsibility to her, whether as a public servant with medical training, or as a citizen familiar with the climate, or just as the 'decent' human being he should have been.

Criminal or civil, I hope he gets hung out to dry.

He may have had a moral responsibility but he had no legal responsibility, criminal or civil.

Did you know that even if he was a cop and on duty, if he saw someone murdering you he has no legal obligation to help you?

 

[sdifox]

I do. He had a responsibility to her, whether as a public servant with medical training, or as a resident/citizen familiar with the climate, or just as the 'decent' human being he should have been.

Criminal or civil, I hope he gets hung out to dry.

He was asked to go take more pix...

 

[Jaskalas]

Is there any evidence that he stole her water?

 

[Perknose]

I can't believe this is even a question.

I can't believe it's a thread!

 

[Moonbeam]

I can't believe it's a thread!

Believe I am not going to date him.

 

[darkswordsman17]

I can't believe its not butter!

Based on the shit that's come out about Phoenix PD, I'd say there's a high chance this guy is a piece of shit. Also, interesting that people are just taking his side of the story as gospel, as we know people never ever lie about anything ever, and certainly not when there's a death involved.

Also, I think some of you don't understand the situation. They have a rescue team on standby for people hiking Camelback Mountain (which is in the middle of the city) because the combination of hiking and Phoenix heat tends to lead to issues. There's no way the cop didn't know this and he should have fucking known better than to leave her if she reported feeling fatigue or other issues that indicate potential heat stroke. The fact that the mother fucker didn't even alert them til he got back to the parking lot shows a level of disgusting lack of concern for another human that I can't even fathom how you could do that (but sadly seems inherent to the mindset of police officers).

At minimum there should be a thorough investigation, and one not handled by Phoenix PD.

 

[ptthomas]

I don't want to say it but probably not.

 

[BonzaiDuck]

I once made a hike with a friend to the top of Telescope Peak -- 11,000+ feet above sea level, tallest mountain in the Panamint Range on the west side of Death Valley. I was out of shape. I was a smoker. I got to maybe 500 feet below the peak and told my friend i had to turn back. Which -- I did. When I found our campsite, it took me a while to catch my breath. I missed a helluva view! On a clear day, you can see the Pacific Ocean beyond the Sierras.

I don't think there's anything extraordinarily wrong with the cop's behavior. He probably wasn't thinking about his companion for being "acclimatized" to the elevation and heat. There are experienced hikers, and then there are experienced hikers. I may have been experienced, but I wasn't a match for Telescope Peak. What would the woman's companion know?

 

[darkswordsman17]

I once made a hike with a friend to the top of Telescope Peak -- 11,000+ feet above sea level, tallest mountain in the Panamint Range on the west side of Death Valley. I was out of shape. I was a smoker. I got to maybe 500 feet below the peak and told my friend i had to turn back. Which -- I did. When I found our campsite, it took me a while to catch my breath. I missed a helluva view! On a clear day, you can see the Pacific Ocean beyond the Sierras.

I don't think there's anything extraordinarily wrong with the cop's behavior. He probably wasn't thinking about his companion for being "acclimatized" to the elevation and heat. There are experienced hikers, and then there are experienced hikers. I may have been experienced, but I wasn't a match for Telescope Peak. What would the woman's companion know?

He's a Phoenix cop and rescues on Camelback due to heat exhaustion are common. They have signs/warnings, and can dispatch multiple rescue teams quickly (not certain there is a rescue team specifically just for Camelback, there's a few other popular mountain hikes in the Phoenix area so its likely a consortium based on needs and proximity). The fact that they started the hike at 10AM and found her almost 7 hours later (Camelback isn't that big - its like a quarter mile elevation change and 1.5x2.5 blocks, and they have a helicopter to speed up locating people), is pretty fishy. Round trip up and down average 2-3 hours, so that is an absurd amount of time that transpired.

I really think some of you don't understand what Camelback is like. Its basically a rocky hill in the middle of Scottsdale/North Phoenix. It is not a mountain like some of you think, where its out in the wilderness and several thousand feet tall. What makes it dangerous is the Phoenix heat and unrelenting sun.

Oh and he changed his story (told fire and park ranger he hiked up there a lot and was very familiar, but now claims he hasn't and even got lost and had to take an Uber back to the parking lot):

Death of missing Camelback Mountain hiker ruled as accidental

The Maricopa County Office of the Medical Examiner recently ruled the death of a missing Camelback Mountain hiker as accidental.

www.abc15.com

 

[interchange]

I do. He had a responsibility to her, whether as a public servant with medical training, or as a resident/citizen familiar with the climate, or just as the 'decent' human being he should have been.

Criminal or civil, I hope he gets hung out to dry.

What indication do you think he had that she was suffering from heat stroke? I have a hard time putting myself in that story and thinking I would recognize her being in mortal peril. If she were vomiting and acting all loopy, there may be some reason to hope he'd recognize she was in danger. Even so, assuming there were sufficient signs, is it your contention that the officer intentionally disregarded them? If not, what is the utility in charging him criminally or civilly?

 

[fskimospy]

I can't believe its not butter!

Based on the shit that's come out about Phoenix PD, I'd say there's a high chance this guy is a piece of shit. Also, interesting that people are just taking his side of the story as gospel, as we know people never ever lie about anything ever, and certainly not when there's a death involved.

Also, I think some of you don't understand the situation. They have a rescue team on standby for people hiking Camelback Mountain (which is in the middle of the city) because the combination of hiking and Phoenix heat tends to lead to issues. There's no way the cop didn't know this and he should have fucking known better than to leave her if she reported feeling fatigue or other issues that indicate potential heat stroke. The fact that the mother fucker didn't even alert them til he got back to the parking lot shows a level of disgusting lack of concern for another human that I can't even fathom how you could do that (but sadly seems inherent to the mindset of police officers).

At minimum there should be a thorough investigation, and one not handled by Phoenix PD.

What are you talking about? While I agree all deaths should be investigated, I said there is no evidence he did anything to warrant criminal charges, because there isn’t. If evidence comes to light that he did, then I would change my mind.

All that aside, he had no legal duty to help her or anyone else. He might be a bad person for not exercising more care for her but there is no law that requires it.

 

[ch33zw1z]

I dunno, doesn't sound like there's anything to charge him with.

 

[Fanatical Meat]

The plot thickens

Family of woman who died on Camelback Mountain demands more answers