Should their parents be charged also?

Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
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"According to the criminal complaint, Brown was carrying the keys to Scanlon's vehicle.
Brown told FBI agents he and two accomplices were driving around Philadelphia when they decided to steal a car and spotted Scanlon. Brown claimed he was carrying an unloaded firearm, which was used to intimidate the congresswoman into handing over her keys, the FBI said in the complaint.

The FBI said Brown “provided a written apology to the victim, indicating that he was sorry for stealing the car and for pointing a gun at her.”

A 14-year-old female and three males, ages 13, 15, and 16, were each charged with receiving stolen property. The 15-year-old was also charged with resisting arrest and criminal mischief. Their names were not released because they are juveniles.

All the juveniles were released to their parents or guardians, while the 15-year-old was taken to a detention center, police said.

All the suspects are from Wilmington, Delaware."



Will/should the Oxford school case make a difference in when or if parents are charged for the actions of their kids?
 

SmCaudata

Senior member
Oct 8, 2006
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Didn't read the article. Based on your summary of charges, there is no gun charge. Unlikely parents will face one.

In general though, we should have more universal and strongly enforced safe storage laws.
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
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If Brown got the gun from the parents, I don't have a problem with it. If that is the case since the gun was unloaded any charges should be minimal. If it was the parents, they should lose their license to possess for a determined period of time.
 
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Lost_in_the_HTTP

Diamond Member
Nov 17, 2019
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I didn't say anything about a gun charge. These little snots were out looking for trouble. Where were the parents? Why weren't the little snots under their parent's supervision?

If the parents didn't know where they were, WHY didn't they?

There used to be a charge of 'contributing to the delinquency of a minor'. Charge the parents accordingly. Every time a little snot does this kind of thing. Everywhere. Once parents get wind of the idea they may go to jail for something their little snot does, maybe things will change. Once these little snots get wind of the idea their Mamma might go to jail, maybe things will change.
 
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NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
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I didn't say anything about a gun charge. These little snots were out looking for trouble. Where were the parents? Why weren't the little snots under their parent's supervision?

If the parents didn't know where they were, WHY didn't they?

There used to be a charge of 'contributing to the delinquency of a minor'. Charge the parents accordingly. Every time a little snot does this kind of thing. Everywhere. Once parents get wind of the idea they may go to jail for something their little snot does, maybe things will change. Once these little snots get wind of the idea their Mamma might go to jail, maybe things will change.
No offense, but where you always supervised at the age of 13 to 16? I wasn't, my parents usually knew where I was, or where I was supposed to be. (I say supposed to be as I have made some stupid choices when I was a teenager, and it was by no means due to my parents or how they raised me). That was nearly 40 years ago..

Times have changed, where most parents (both of them) are working, and gone much more than in the past. Many options to put the "fear of god" into your kids have been taken away. What I mean is many parents used the "threat" of certain punishment to keep their kids in line. They never had to use such punishment because the fear of that punishment was enough. Parents now days don't have that option, as they are told by teachers, counselors, etc they can't do XYZ, etc, which prevents parents from using the fear of such punishment as a tool. (Seriously, do you really believe they "fear" the punishment of losing their xbox or Ipad for a week or two, specially those kids who are out pulling guns on people, robbing and breaking into house?). Basically tying parents hands in many aspects. In fact, many parents are told to "consider their feelings", you don't want the punishments to Embarrass them , and/or there must be some underling reason they are misbehaving, other than they are just being little misbehaving brats, Kids are expected to be raised with thick soft kiddy gloves, so you don't bruise their ego.. blah blah blah..

My point is we can't have a society that puts so many restrictions on how parents can deal with their misbehaving kids, which most acceptable options are just a slap on the hand, and then turn around and blame the parents for kids breaking the laws, stealing, etc. Parents can only teach them about right and wrong, they can't make the choices for them. Specially when their options are limited to holding them accountable for their actions.
 
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JTsyo

Lifer
Nov 18, 2007
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I didn't say anything about a gun charge. These little snots were out looking for trouble. Where were the parents? Why weren't the little snots under their parent's supervision?

If the parents didn't know where they were, WHY didn't they?

There used to be a charge of 'contributing to the delinquency of a minor'. Charge the parents accordingly. Every time a little snot does this kind of thing. Everywhere. Once parents get wind of the idea they may go to jail for something their little snot does, maybe things will change. Once these little snots get wind of the idea their Mamma might go to jail, maybe things will change.
What kind of nonsense is this?
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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We are all in danger from the irresponsibility of parents in our society but we are also responsible for the irresponsibility of out society. My job is to complain about the irresponsibility of others, not my own personal ignorance. It's not like society is my baby, right?
 
Jul 9, 2009
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Charge the kids with the crimes they committed, the same for the parents. If the little fucks are old enough to commit the crime, they are old enough to go to prison where they belong.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
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No offense, but where you always supervised at the age of 13 to 16? I wasn't, my parents usually knew where I was, or where I was supposed to be. (I say supposed to be as I have made some stupid choices when I was a teenager, and it was by no means due to my parents or how they raised me). That was nearly 40 years ago..

Times have changed, where most parents (both of them) are working, and gone much more than in the past. Many options to put the "fear of god" into your kids have been taken away. What I mean is many parents used the "threat" of certain punishment to keep their kids in line. They never had to use such punishment because the fear of that punishment was enough. Parents now days don't have that option, as they are told by teachers, counselors, etc they can't do XYZ, etc, which prevents parents from using the fear of such punishment as a tool. (Seriously, do you really believe they "fear" the punishment of losing their xbox or Ipad for a week or two, specially those kids who are out pulling guns on people, robbing and breaking into house?). Basically tying parents hands in many aspects. In fact, many parents are told to "consider their feelings", you don't want the punishments to Embarrass them , and/or there must be some underling reason they are misbehaving, other than they are just being little misbehaving brats, Kids are expected to be raised with thick soft kiddy gloves, so you don't bruise their ego.. blah blah blah..

My point is we can't have a society that puts so many restrictions on how parents can deal with their misbehaving kids, which most acceptable options are just a slap on the hand, and then turn around and blame the parents for kids breaking the laws, stealing, etc. Parents can only teach them about right and wrong, they can't make the choices for them. Specially when their options are limited to holding them accountable for their actions.
Have you ever had kids? I think most kids would rather get their ass beat than lose their phone for a week.

I agree with you, though, parents can't punished for their kid's crimes. However, we do need safe storage laws, and if parents don't make reasonable efforts to keep guns away from kids there should be punishment.
 

Pipeline 1010

Golden Member
Dec 2, 2005
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I didn't say anything about a gun charge. These little snots were out looking for trouble. Where were the parents? Why weren't the little snots under their parent's supervision?

If the parents didn't know where they were, WHY didn't they?

There used to be a charge of 'contributing to the delinquency of a minor'. Charge the parents accordingly. Every time a little snot does this kind of thing. Everywhere. Once parents get wind of the idea they may go to jail for something their little snot does, maybe things will change. Once these little snots get wind of the idea their Mamma might go to jail, maybe things will change.
Have you ever even been a parent? Unless you are going to be a perpetual helicopter around your children at all times of the day, I'm not sure how you think the parents can be 100% perfectly informed of all of their children's' actions. The parents might have been working. Or they might have been cooking or doing laundry or giving their children freedom/autonomy so they don't grow up completely dependent upon an authority figure around them at all times. Or they might be neglectful, poor parents. But who knows? Even the best parenting can result in children that make very bad decisions.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
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If Brown got the gun from the parents, I don't have a problem with it. If that is the case since the gun was unloaded any charges should be minimal. If it was the parents, they should lose their license to possess for a determined period of time.
This seems reasonable to me
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Charge the kids with the crimes they committed, the same for the parents. If the little fucks are old enough to commit the crime, they are old enough to go to prison where they belong.
Surely we can do better. We need to imprison the whole family out to the nth generation, but I have it on good authority that matter has been taken care of.
 
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NWRMidnight

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Jun 18, 2001
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Have you ever had kids? I think most kids would rather get their ass beat than lose their phone for a week.

I agree with you, though, parents can't punished for their kid's crimes. However, we do need safe storage laws, and if parents don't make reasonable efforts to keep guns away from kids there should be punishment.
Do you think I would post such a response if I didn't have kids? I have 4, 3 biological, and one step son, who is not my stepson legally any longer due to divorce, but is still my son and the only one he calls dad in his life. Current ages are now 21 to 30 years old.

Taking away a phone, ipad/tablet, a computer, tv, etc doesn't do anything long term in the way of punishment because when you take such "devices" away, they get introduced to other non electronic entertainment in which they start to enjoy leading to rewarding them for misbehaving. AKA, you take away something that can be substituted with other activities that usually end up being rewarding rather than a punishment. My daughter is now learning just that. Taking away their device doesn't work, specially when my grandson sneaks onto it when she is not around (another reason taking away a device doesn't work). Of course, it came up when having dinner with them, and I told my grandson he is luck I am not his parent. That ipad would be broken and in the garbage the first time he touched it after it was taken away, never to be seen again for the rest of his life, as well as a more memorable punishment. You don't have to beat or even spank a child to put fear of punishment into them. Taking away a device does not instill fear of the punishment at all, it just teaches them patience as they know they will get the device back in most cases, and during their "device punishment" they are just substituting their entertainment with something else, and/or finding ways to "sidestep" such device punishment.

It's like parents who count 1, 2, 3 when their kids don't mind them... They are not teaching their kids to mind them, like they think they are, they are teaching them that they have 3 more chances to get away with not minding, rather than teaching them to mind them the first time, which can be a deadly and counter productive. Here is what I say to any parent who starts counting: "Do you realize you are teaching your child that he/she can ignore you up to 3 times before they need to mind you? How many chances do you have to get your child to mind if he is running into the path of a car, or some other deadly hazard? Maybe one chance if you are lucky? Do you think that car/hazard is going to pause/stop while you count? You need to teach your child to mind you the first time, as there may not be a second time, specially with young children who don't understand the hazards around them."
 
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Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
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Do you think I would post such a response if I didn't have kids? I have 4, 3 biological, and one step son, who is not my stepson legally any longer due to divorce, but is still my son and the only one he calls dad in his life. Current ages are now 21 to 30 years old.

Taking away a phone, ipad/tablet, a computer, tv, etc doesn't do anything long term in the way of punishment because when you take such "devices" away, they get introduced to other non electronic entertainment in which they start to enjoy leading to rewarding them for misbehaving. AKA, you take away something that can be substituted with other activities that usually end up being rewarding rather than a punishment. My daughter is now learning just that. Taking away their device doesn't work, specially when my grandson sneaks onto it when she is not around (another reason taking away a device doesn't work). Of course, it came up when having dinner with them, and I told my grandson he is luck I am not his parent. That ipad would be broken and in the garbage the first time he touched it after it was taken away, never to be seen again for the rest of his life, as well as a more memorable punishment. You don't have to beat or even spank a child to put fear of punishment into them. Taking away a device does not instill fear of the punishment at all, it just teaches them patience as they know they will get the device back in most cases, and during their "device punishment" they are just substituting their entertainment with something else, and/or finding ways to "sidestep" such device punishment.
Different things work for different kids. Many parents are just too lazy to actually be consistent with discipline.

Luckily my daughter doesn't have any devices to take away. But I'd take it as a plus if a kid learned to have fun without a device while being punished.
 

NWRMidnight

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
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Different things work for different kids. Many parents are just too lazy to actually be consistent with discipline.

Luckily my daughter doesn't have any devices to take away. But I'd take it as a plus if a kid learned to have fun without a device while being punished.
The key about punishment is it has to be a punishment that YOU THE PARENT can handle and follow thru with. Lets take grounding for instance. Many parents ground their kids for X weeks, but the parents can't handle X weeks, as they become a handful, so the end up not being grounded anymore.. teaching their children that their parents are pushovers. Which goes along with what you said about parents not being consistent.

It is a positive for a child to learn to have fun without a device, but it should never be done via punishment. How is learning something fun caused by the punishment, maintain the level of being a memorable punishment to prevent them from misbehaving again? A punishment has to be a deterrent, not something fun, or leads to fun, as it won't be a deterrent any longer for misbehaving but a reward for misbehaving.
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
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Isn’t what is happening to society right now the fact that the pandemic is a punishment that has taken away our habituated social pleasures. We have had our toys taken and left with only those resources we managed to create for ourselves. The cracks, the inability to cope with loneliness and isolation and the hardships of fear are related, perhaps, to our inner poverty. I’m betting old people who grew up with little in the way of entertainment other than that they personally invented are doing rather well by comparison.

Perhaps our love of punishment is just a wish that others suffer like we do.
 

dawp

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
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Have you ever even been a parent? Unless you are going to be a perpetual helicopter around your children at all times of the day, I'm not sure how you think the parents can be 100% perfectly informed of all of their children's' actions. The parents might have been working. Or they might have been cooking or doing laundry or giving their children freedom/autonomy so they don't grow up completely dependent upon an authority figure around them at all times. Or they might be neglectful, poor parents. But who knows? Even the best parenting can result in children that make very bad decisions.
on the other extreme is the Turpin case. No, they didn't run wild breaking laws but the life they led while in that environment was a nightmare which the parents are paying a heavy price for and the kids were not equipped to live a normal life in society

as far as the case in the OP, if the parent(s) did not secure the gun used in the carjacking, even if it was unload, should pay some price, even if it's just a hefty fine in the thousands of dollars.
 
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ch33zw1z

Lifer
Nov 4, 2004
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Unless you can show the parents encouraged / aided this kid, then no.

I'm for stricter gun regulations, if this kid got the gun from his parents, then that's a charge that's ok too. Guns should always be secured and accessible to only the owner.
 
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