Should the mentally ill or mentally disabled be barred from voting?

Oldgamer

Diamond Member
Jan 15, 2013
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I came across this article on the Daily Kos The War on Voters from the Mentally Disabled to Re-enfranchising Felons (yes I know it is a lefty site) but it did get me wondering what some of you thought about letting the mentally disabled vote based on the level of ability. As most of you know I help care for a loved one who is disabled in many ways, physically and mentally. He does vote. But I wonder if this might be a new ploy to not allowing people to vote and if they are trying to bring back certain types of testing for people who are mentally disabled.

Here is the link to the CBS news article that says Disabled are often banned from voting in LA http://www.cbsnews.com/news/disabled-often-banned-from-voting-in-l-a-complaint-says/

Quoting the article here:

At a time when election officials are struggling to convince more Americans to vote, advocates for the disabled say thousands of people with autism spectrum disorder, cerebral palsy and other intellectual or developmental disabilities have been systematically denied that basic right in the nation's largest county.

A Voting Rights Act complaint to be filed Thursday with the U.S. Justice Department goes to a politically delicate subject that states have grappled with over the years: Where is the line to disqualify someone from the voting booth because of a cognitive or developmental impairment?

The complaint by the Disability and Abuse Project argues that intellectual and developmental disabilities, including conditions such as Down syndrome, are not automatic barriers to participating in elections. It seeks a sweeping review of voting eligibility in Los Angeles County in such cases, arguing that thousands of people with those disabilities have lost the right to vote during the last decade.

"We want these past injustices to be corrected, and we want the judges and court-appointed attorneys to protect, not violate, the rights of people with developmental disabilities," Thomas F. Coleman, the group's legal director, said in a statement.

At issue in the California case is access to the ballot box for adults who enter so-called limited conservatorships, legal arrangements in which parents or guardians assume the right to make certain decisions for people who lack the ability to manage their financial and medical affairs. In the course of taking that step in court, voting rights are routinely voided, according to the advocacy group.

California has over 40,000 such cases, and those covered by the arrangements usually live with their families or in group homes. A recent sample of 61 cases by the advocacy group in Los Angeles County found that 90 percent of the people covered by limited conservatorships had been disqualified from voting.

The complaint says judges in Los Angeles Superior Court use literacy tests to determine if adults in limited conservatorships should have voting rights, a violation of the federal Voting Rights Act. It also says that judges and court-appointed attorneys violate federal laws that allow people with disabilities to have assistance to complete voter-registration forms and cast ballots.

"Autism is a broad spectrum, and there can be low skills and there can be high skills. But what I observed was that people tend to just dismiss it as though they have no skills," Teresa Thompson, whose son has autism and whose case helped prompt the complaint, said in a videotaped statement.

Los Angeles Superior Court spokeswoman Mary Eckhardt Hearn said she had not seen the complaint and declined comment.

The complaint could trigger an investigation by the Justice Department. It also asks Superior Court to rescind thousands of voter-disqualification notices it has issued in those cases over a decade.

For years, advocates brought attention to the obstacles to voting faced by the physically disabled. More recently, the focus has shifted to the mentally or developmentally disabled, who advocates say have long been stigmatized in the voting process.

In the past, advocates in Missouri sued to make it easier for people under guardianship for mental disabilities to vote, and New Jersey voters in 2007 stripped language from the state Constitution that held "no idiot or insane person shall enjoy the right of suffrage."

All but about a dozen states have some type of law limiting voting rights for individuals based on competence. But how those laws are enforced varies widely, advocates say.

A 2007 report for the American Bar Association concluded that "excluding the broad and indefinite category of persons with mental incapacities is not consistent with either the constitutional right to vote ... or the current understanding of mental capacity."

The California complaint could create a testing ground for such cases. State election law says a person is considered mentally incompetent and disqualified from voting if he or she cannot complete a voter-registration form, which the complaint argues is an illegal literacy test.

"There is this constant struggle to make sure everyone can vote privately and independently, regardless of disability," said Curtis Decker, executive director of the National Disability Rights Network.
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The question is where do we draw the line? If they are doing this to people with these types of issues, what is to say they won't push and try to keep people with bipolar or schizophrenia from participating?
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
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The question needs far more definition. I know a fellow that can't do simple addition and subtraction, he's not capable of making any sort of informed decision about an issue, but he has the right to vote. Should he not be allowed? Who makes that decision? Should there be an IQ test for voters? Who decides what the lower limit is? What happens when it's discovered that more members of one race are disqualified than other races, it would almost have to work out that way, can you imagine the shit storm from that?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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At issue in the California case is access to the ballot box for adults who enter so-called limited conservatorships, legal arrangements in which parents or guardians assume the right to make certain decisions for people who lack the ability to manage their financial and medical affairs. In the course of taking that step in court, voting rights are routinely voided, according to the advocacy group.

So lets be clear. We are talking about people who are not able to take care of themselves.

If you cannot manage your own life why should you have power over other people's lives?
 

compuwiz1

Admin Emeritus Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
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If the mentally ill were not allowed to vote there would be no more democrats. Liberalism is a mental illness. ;)
 
Feb 4, 2009
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If you're capable of voting you should be allowed. Its been proven that any test made will be misused
 

TheSlamma

Diamond Member
Sep 6, 2005
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If the mentally ill were not allowed to vote there would be no more democrats. Liberalism is a mental illness. ;)
It takes a sharp mind to think the earth is 6000 years old.. or was that a mind that had a sharp tool placed in it? I forget :p
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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If you're capable of voting you should be allowed. Its been proven that any test made will be misused

Except if you read the article you would see that there isn't a test. This is a case of people essentially being declared to legally be children, as they cannot look after their own affairs, and since we don't allow children to vote neither should people legally declared to be children.

In essence they have been found to be incapable of voting(as well as for instance managing their own finances, which seems like a bigger deal to me). In fact I am not sure what you mean by "capable" of voting. A 4 year old is capable of bubbling in a circle, whereas a paralyzed adult cannot. Are you suggesting that the 4 year old is the one that should be voting?
 
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cabri

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2012
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As long as they have the mental capacity to determine that they have a choice to make; they should be able to vote.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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Except if you read the article you would see that there isn't a test. This is a case of people essentially being declared to legally be children, as they cannot look after their own affairs, and since we don't allow children to vote neither should people legally declared to be children.

In essence they have been found to be incapable of voting(as well as for instance managing their own finances, which seems like a bigger deal to me). In fact I am not sure what you mean by "capable" of voting. A 4 year old is capable of bubbling in a circle, whereas a paralyzed adult cannot. Are you suggesting that the 4 year old is the one that should be voting?

No I'm suggesting that there was some kind of test to determine their mental capacity and that test can never be completely correct. Honestly how many people with extreme mental disabilities are going to be capable of voting anyways?
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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No I'm suggesting that there was some kind of test to determine their mental capacity and that test can never be completely correct. Honestly how many people with extreme mental disabilities are going to be capable of voting anyways?

What is your definition of "capable of voting"?

I think most 4 year olds can bubble in a circle. The act of voting isn't exactly hard.
 
Feb 4, 2009
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What is your definition of "capable of voting"?

I think most 4 year olds can bubble in a circle. The act of voting isn't exactly hard.

Sigh, Nehalem why are you always looking for a fight? Don't you ever get tired of it?
Capable of voting is exactly what it sounds like, they are capable filling out a ballot or mailing a ballot or flipping a switch whatever it takes to vote.
 
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JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
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If the mentally ill were not allowed to vote there would be no more democrats. Liberalism is a mental illness.

If the mentally ill were not allowed to vote, there would be no Atheists to counter the Christian Right at the polls!!
 

Bitek

Lifer
Aug 2, 2001
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Why is this even a concern? Are elections being swayed in dangerous ways by the mentally disturbed?

I'm quite sure this issue is a complete waste of time, especially to the questionable impingement on democratic freedoms
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Sigh, Nehalem why are you always looking for a fight? Don't you ever get tired of it?
Capable of voting is exactly what it sounds like, they are capable filling out a ballot or mailing a ballot or flipping a switch whatever it takes to vote.

So a physically disabled person shouldn't be allowed to vote, while a mentally disabled person should... seems rather backwards to me.
 

nehalem256

Lifer
Apr 13, 2012
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Why is this even a concern? Are elections being swayed in dangerous ways by the mentally disturbed?

I'm quite sure this issue is a complete waste of time, especially to the questionable impingement on democratic freedoms

California has over 40,000 such cases, and those covered by the arrangements usually live with their families or in group homes. A recent sample of 61 cases by the advocacy group in Los Angeles County found that 90 percent of the people covered by limited conservatorships had been disqualified from voting.

I would think that 10,000s of people could sway an election.

Why should people that have been found to be legally unable to take care of themselves be able to have say over other people's lives?