Should the 17th Amendment be repealed?

[misle]

I think repealing the 17th Amendment would be a great start to transferring power back to the States and local government and away from the Federal government.

For your reference - the 17th Amendment

 

[shiner]

Yes, because popular elections are clearly a bad idea.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: misle
I think repealing the 17th Amendment would be a great start to transferring power back to the States and local government and away from the Federal government.

For your reference - the 17th Amendment

Why do you want state's legislature to choose Senators and Representatives? How is taking the choice away from the voter transferring power back to the States?

 

[Vette73]

How is that giving more power to the states. The people of the states, the State, vote and the winner goes to DC to represent them.


The old way bad and would even be worse now. Look at the New York legislative right now.

 

[Genx87]

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: misle
I think repealing the 17th Amendment would be a great start to transferring power back to the States and local government and away from the Federal government.

For your reference - the 17th Amendment

Why do you want state's legislature to choose Senators and Representatives? How is taking the choice away from the voter transferring power back to the States?

The choice of the voter resides in their state senate and state house selections. If anything, it will bring back state election to the front of the political scene. I bet a lot of people have no idea who their reps are in the state house. Why? Because people focus on national elections due to states giving away this power in the 17th amendment.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: misle
I think repealing the 17th Amendment would be a great start to transferring power back to the States and local government and away from the Federal government.

For your reference - the 17th Amendment

Why do you want state's legislature to choose Senators and Representatives? How is taking the choice away from the voter transferring power back to the States?

The choice of the voter resides in their state senate and state house selections. If anything, it will bring back state election to the front of the political scene. I bet a lot of people have no idea who their reps are in the state house. Why? Because people focus on national elections due to states giving away this power in the 17th amendment.

I get that but why would you want to take away from the voter to the ability to directly choose their Federal representatives? Why do you want to deny the voter this important decision?

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

You ask a question but there is no poll?

:thumbsdown:

I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, I like the people electing their senators through a general election. On the other hand, I'm all about returning more power to the states.

 

[Genx87]

Would I? I dont really have that much opinion on the matter. I do feel states gave away a previously held right but overall I am agnostic.

Playing devils advocate. You arent denying them the decision making process. They would need to petition their state representative to vote a specific person to the DC.

 

[misle]

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
You ask a question but there is no poll?

:thumbsdown:

I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, I like the people electing their senators through a general election. On the other hand, I'm all about returning more power to the states.

There's no poll because this is a discussion. Clicking 'Yes' or 'No' doesn't do much to move the discussion in a substantive manner.

Work's a bit busy right now, I'll chime in with my thoughts around lunch.

 

[RyanPaulShaffer]

Originally posted by: misle

Originally posted by: RyanPaulShaffer
You ask a question but there is no poll?

:thumbsdown:

I'm on the fence about this. On one hand, I like the people electing their senators through a general election. On the other hand, I'm all about returning more power to the states.

There's no poll because this is a discussion. Clicking 'Yes' or 'No' doesn't do much to move the discussion in a substantive manner.

Work's a bit busy right now, I'll chime in with my thoughts around lunch.

If you'll notice all the other poll threads, there is quite a bit of a discussion, not just people clicking Yes or No.

 

[Fern]

Originally posted by: misle
I think repealing the 17th Amendment would be a great start to transferring power back to the States and local government and away from the Federal government.

For your reference - the 17th Amendment

I don't see how the repeal of this amendment would transfer power back to the states etc and away from the federal government. How would removing electoral power from the people of a state increase their power?

IMO, this would likely give more power to the two big poltical parties. The Dems/Repubs in the House would just elect (appoint really) one of their who wouldn't be beholden to the actual people of the state. This, IMO, would encourage the most extreme 'party' behavior because the Senator wouldn't have to face voters, and by denouncing the Senator at election time a Representative could distance themselves from them.

Nope, this owuld just enhance the power of one of the two parties, and if anything they need less power.

Fern

 

[MovingTarget]

I can definitely see the appeal in doing this. However, I feel that people nowadays are so accustomed to being able to vote directly for their senators that should the 17th be repealed, many states would opt to go for a direct election model. Local legislatures are more sensitive to public opinion, which makes this even more likely. (Unless of course said reps are real estate developers, but thats another story. )

 

[ElFenix]

the 17th amendment effectively destroyed federalism by eliminating the state's representatives to congress. so we get things like unfunded mandates. ah ha! we'll balance the federal budget by requiring the states to do all our work for us! the way parties were way more fragmented back in the 1800s you probably didn't get as much party-line voting as you would if you were to do it today.

 

[Craig234]

I prefer the direct democracy, in spite of the problems with it currently with big money corrupting it.

 

[newnameman]

Yes.

 

[lupi]

taking back income tax would go a lot further than this.

 

[miketheidiot]

the last thing i want is for my state legislature to have more power. Unitary parliamentary democracy please.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
the 17th amendment effectively destroyed federalism by eliminating the state's representatives to congress. so we get things like unfunded mandates. ah ha! we'll balance the federal budget by requiring the states to do all our work for us! the way parties were way more fragmented back in the 1800s you probably didn't get as much party-line voting as you would if you were to do it today.

I don't understand how direct election of Senators eliminated any state's representation... if anything, it made Senators more responsible to the people of the states, and less so to the states' entrenched power structures.

If you want to strengthen the states, pass a new amendment requiring the Executive, the Congress and the Courts to state explicitly how their actions, legislation and rulings conform to the 10th Amendment.

 

[BoomerD]

I'de certainly like to see the 14th amendment re-worked and perhaps clarified, esspecially the first section:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

The children of immigrants should be citizens of the country of origin UNLESS the parents specifically apply for citizenship for the child. This should automatically be granted so long as the parents are BOTH legal immigrants, naturalized or native citizens. Should any one parent be an illegal immigrant, the application for citizenship should be denied.

 

[StinkyPinky]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'de certainly like to see the 14th amendment re-worked and perhaps clarified, esspecially the first section:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

The children of immigrants should be citizens of the country of origin UNLESS the parents specifically apply for citizenship for the child. This should automatically be granted so long as the parents are BOTH legal immigrants, naturalized or native citizens. Should any one parent be an illegal immigrant, the application for citizenship should be denied.

Sounds like a lot of paper work for no reason whatsoever.

 

[Craig234]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
I'de certainly like to see the 14th amendment re-worked and perhaps clarified, esspecially the first section:

Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

The children of immigrants should be citizens of the country of origin UNLESS the parents specifically apply for citizenship for the child. This should automatically be granted so long as the parents are BOTH legal immigrants, naturalized or native citizens. Should any one parent be an illegal immigrant, the application for citizenship should be denied.

The change we need to make to the 14th amendment is to limit it to actual people, not let corporations get rights as phony 'people' to use their wealth to corrupt politics.

 

[ElFenix]

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
I don't understand how direct election of Senators eliminated any state's representation... if anything, it made Senators more responsible to the people of the states, and less so to the states' entrenched power structures.

If you want to strengthen the states, pass a new amendment requiring the Executive, the Congress and the Courts to state explicitly how their actions, legislation and rulings conform to the 10th Amendment.

it made senators another kind of people's representatives. not the state's. so now the people have 2 kinds of representative in congress in addition to indirectly electing president, and the states have no representative in congress, even though the federal government was a compact between the states.

 

[CallMeJoe]

Originally posted by: ElFenix

Originally posted by: CallMeJoe
I don't understand how direct election of Senators eliminated any state's representation... if anything, it made Senators more responsible to the people of the states, and less so to the states' entrenched power structures.
If you want to strengthen the states, pass a new amendment requiring the Executive, the Congress and the Courts to state explicitly how their actions, legislation and rulings conform to the 10th Amendment.

it made senators another kind of people's representatives. not the state's. so now the people have 2 kinds of representative in congress in addition to indirectly electing president, and the states have no representative in congress, even though the federal government was a compact between the states.

I still don't quite get your point, unless you think that "States" are somehow corporeal entities distinct from their citizenry.

 

[Hacp]

Originally posted by: Genx87

Originally posted by: Siddhartha

Originally posted by: misle
I think repealing the 17th Amendment would be a great start to transferring power back to the States and local government and away from the Federal government.

For your reference - the 17th Amendment

Why do you want state's legislature to choose Senators and Representatives? How is taking the choice away from the voter transferring power back to the States?

The choice of the voter resides in their state senate and state house selections. If anything, it will bring back state election to the front of the political scene. I bet a lot of people have no idea who their reps are in the state house. Why? Because people focus on national elections due to states giving away this power in the 17th amendment.

Last thing I'd want is the NY state senate democrats choosing my senator.

 

[Modelworks]

If I had my choice we would get rid of state and federal reps. Let the people vote on laws like we do with elections. Sick of elected officials promising one thing and doing another, then having to wait years to replace them.