Should people who torrent be convicted thread.

[Cuda1447]

So we've had the discussions about torrenting and how people feel about it. It's stealing, it's not, I hate it, I love it, you're evil, you're robin hood. Whatever, this thread doesn't give a shit about any of that. It has one simple question.


If an IP address downloads a movie via torrent. Should the person who is listed as the owner on that IP address be convicted for said pirating?


I say absolutely no. You cannot prove that the person listed as the owner of that IP address is actually the one that committed that crime and for that reason alone, you can't convict someone. There are MANY plausible explanations.

Unsecured wireless network. Roommate or friend uses your computer. Someone steals your wifi password etc etc....


Discuss.

 

[Leros]

I don't think its really up for debate. IP != person.

You could try to argue that people are responsible for their connection, but more than 99% of people don't really understand electronics or computers.

 

[Newbian]

So I take it the cops are knocking on your door?

 

[Cuda1447]

So I take it the cops are knocking on your door?

Not at all, just curious if anyone actually defends any convictions on this issue.

 

[CrazyAznDriver]

yes, use usenet instead

 

[Alone]

Nope.

Though, I'm pretty sure in Canada you can only be convicted for uploading. Whether or not that's true is of little importance to me.

 

[DougoMan]

yes, use usenet instead

surely they must prosecute usenet downloaders as well?

 

[DrPizza]

I think the IP should be enough for a search warrant to seize the computer equipment.

 

[LumbergTech]

I think the IP should be enough for a search warrant to seize the computer equipment.

so if you are accused of downloading something illegally you lose your right to privacy? seems a little absurd

 

[kyrax12]

nope

 

[OutHouse]

theft is theft. whats to argue.

 

[guyver01]

so if you are accused of downloading something illegally you lose your right to privacy? seems a little absurd

lol ... right to privacy loss not found.

they're searching the computer for the stolen item.. not looking at your banking history.

leap a little more.

 

[kyrax12]

theft is theft. whats to argue.

Well when someone downloads a movie off the internet the original doesn't disappear. The file will always be there.

 

[guyver01]

If an IP address downloads a movie via torrent. Should the person who is listed as the owner on that IP address be convicted for said pirating?

yes.

you are responsible for securing your own IP. if you cannot... you should go to jail.

similar argument.. someone takes your gun... kills someone with it... no prints for the shooter, but gun is registered to you.. good luck proving you didn't do it.

 

[kyrax12]

yes.

you are responsible for securing your own IP. if you cannot... you should go to jail.

similar argument.. someone takes your gun... kills someone with it... no prints for the shooter, but gun is registered to you.. good luck proving you didn't do it.

I think going to Jail from cyber pirating is just too much. And I would think murder is on a whole different level than Downloading a movie even if the concept is the same.

 

[OutHouse]

Well when someone downloads a movie off the internet the original doesn't disappear. The file will always be there.

its amazing what excuses thieves come up with. its theft from the artist or actors or movie studio you noob. if you didn't pay for it you stole it whats so hard to understand about that concept?

 

[Alone]

yes.

you are responsible for securing your own IP. if you cannot... you should go to jail.

similar argument.. someone takes your gun... kills someone with it... no prints for the shooter, but gun is registered to you.. good luck proving you didn't do it.

So if someone breaks into my house while I'm not home, busts open my locked gun cabinet, pulls out my pistol with a trigger lock, disassembles my pistol, takes my barrel, puts it into another pistol, kills someone, then returns my gun to me, I should be convicted?

Bear in mind that it's a very improbably situation and it's reasonably difficult to prove, but the issue is that I took every possible action to secure my weapon.

 

[Alone]

Well when someone downloads a movie off the internet the original doesn't disappear. The file will always be there.

No that's a stupid argument. You're a fucking idiot.

 

[Bignate603]

so if you are accused of downloading something illegally you lose your right to privacy? seems a little absurd

If you're accused of pretty much any crime (and there's enough evidence to consider the accusation credible) you lose your right to privacy. This is no different.

 

[Alone]

you are responsible for securing your own IP. if you cannot... you should go to jail.

I can protect it on my own end, but not all ISP's offer the same protection. An ISP should reject an outgoing connection if it's not an IP assigned to you. If for some reason they don't, or they're compromised, how is that my fault?

 

[ponyo]

If you're just streaming, how will they prove what you were watching?

 

[guyver01]

So if someone breaks into my house while I'm not home, busts open my locked gun cabinet, pulls out my pistol with a trigger lock, disassembles my pistol, takes my barrel, puts it into another pistol, kills someone, then returns my gun to me, I should be convicted?

if that happens... good luck proving your innocence. luckily murder goes before a jury... and anything can happen.

 

[guyver01]

An ISP should reject an outgoing connection if it's not an IP assigned to you. If for some reason they don't, or they're compromised, how is that my fault?

(1) ISP's are DHCP.. what may be your IP today, might not be your IP tomorrow, depending on the DHCP configuration and lease time. There's no way to do a logic gate decision based on whether the IP is assigned to you RIGHT NOW..

(2) If the ISP is compromised, what's the thief gonna do... assign an ip to himself? i think if a major ISP is compromised, they got bigger issues than a DHCP log.

 

[Alone]

if that happens... good luck proving your innocence. luckily murder goes before a jury... and anything can happen.

My point is not proving innocence, only that it IS possible to be wrongfully convicted even if you took every reasonable action. Securing your connection is not always good enough.

 

[QueBert]

so if you are accused of downloading something illegally you lose your right to privacy? seems a little absurd

If you're accused of rape the news will show your picture and give out info they know on you. Mind you that's accused so maybe you didn't even rape the person right?

I'm willing to bet when it comes to pirating 999/1000 are actually doing it. Yeah it would suck if you're that 1 exception, but you're just that, an exception.