Should night workers have protected rights?

sportage

Lifer
Feb 1, 2008
11,492
3,162
136
Neighbor of mine that works graveyard hours has been very upset he was called into duty duty.
I never see this guy during the daytime.
He comes home @ 6:30-7am and then sleeps all day.
He even mows his yard far into the evening hours simply because he sleeps all day.
And he sticks to that same upside down schedule on his nights off simply because he claims he can not flip flop between night living to day living.
It screws him up too much when his night hours come around again.

This makes sense to me. If one normally sleeps all day long, then should stay up all day long on their the day off, the body is naturally going to need sleep in the night time just when their night shift rolls around again.
He says going into work tired lacking sleep is like going into work drunk.

Got me to wonder why people that routinely work nights are not given the same respect they deserve as people working and living a normal daytime schedule?
Can you imagine an entire courtroom, lawyers, judge, jury, all expected to get up and show up for a full days work starting at 1am? 2am?

But no such consideration was ever given that graveyard worker.
They are expected to just "do it".
To show up in what amounts to be the middle of their night.

I really think laws should be designed to protect and support people with fixed nighttime work hours, and especially these graveyard workers that must and typically sleep during the day.

If one can prove they actually and routinely work graveyard, and must sleep during the day, then an exception should be granted from not only jury duty but from and legal activity requiring disruption to their nocturnal living schedule.

Night workers especially welcome to chime in here....
 

Markbnj

Elite Member <br>Moderator Emeritus
Moderator
Sep 16, 2005
15,682
14
81
www.markbetz.net
I've only done it a few times, and I did find it strange. Almost like inhabiting a different world from the "day people." I didn't like it much at all. I especially found it hard to keep things on an even keel over the weekends because we worked four 10-hour nights, and the weekend was always three days.
 

RockinZ28

Platinum Member
Mar 5, 2008
2,171
49
101
Are they being forced to work that shift, or at that job? I'd just doze off at jury duty. Tell them why if pestered, and you'd likely be dismissed?

I'd love to work a regular night shift, especially back when I was in L.A. No traffic, nice and cool outside, and I hate mornings. Did a few night projects and loved it. Also leaves the day open to do things if needed that always seem to only be open during my day working hours.

The people in related fields I work with usually do a 3 month rotation of night/day shifts. That would piss me off though.
 

thedarkwolf

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
9,006
111
106
I've worked 12am to 8am for around 16 years and really like it. I'm lucky and don't have a problem flipping back and forth most of the time. This weekend I went to bed around 1am both nights and was up around 8am. I just took a two hour nap before coming into work tonight to charge up. I've never had jury duty but I have had days where I've gotten off work and had to do something all day. I just suck it up and drink coffee/energy drinks and then a long nap before work. Naps cure everything :). I really like having most of my afternoon free to do stuff and things are really laid back here at work on the night shift.
 
Last edited:

HamburgerBoy

Lifer
Apr 12, 2004
27,111
318
126
As a grad student it's very easy for me to do work beginning around sundown if I want to, and I love it.
 

KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,661
199
106
Should night workers have protected rights?

No. There are all sorts of hardships that people have to endure when called up for jury duty and very few of them rise to the level of a valid excuse for dismissal of jury service (and rightfully so).

-KeithP
 

thedarkwolf

Diamond Member
Oct 13, 1999
9,006
111
106
The one downside is I can't take time/days off as easy. People in the day shift will just blow off work for whatever reason all the time because there are people there to cover. If I have a dentist appointment well I just have to wake up. Taking a day off means I have to screw somebody over on the day shift to cover my shift so I feel like an asshole when I do it so I rarely take random days off.
 

hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
76
I am currently working 4 10hr shifts weekly from 9PM-7:30AM. All the new hires at this IT level are required to do it. IT is 24/7. Usually takes 1-2 years before they bring in new people and move you to 2nd, then another 1-2 years before you're on 1st. It's sort of a rite of passage, but it mostly helps you learn about things that only happen during third shift (VERY critical). Thus, it is beneficial in the end, especially since 1st and 2nd shift plan and schedule the work that happens on 3rds. And someone has to do it...better to get it over and done with. We are compensated well, but I'd take less money for a regular schedule.

Basically, I have to bend over backwards to get anything "normal" done outside of work, though I do have a small window up until about 11AM before I go to sleep. I am usually up at 8PM on workdays and 9-10PM on my "weekends." This gives me a chance to hang out with my GF, as she is usually scheduled to work while I'm asleep (time in the morning, time in the evening). Could be worse, certainly could be better.

Considering about 20% of the workforce in this country works off-shifts, I believe I read, I would like to see more exceptions to stuff like what you mentioned. We do NOT have it easy and generally seem to go unnoticed/unrecognized. Generally we don't get much sympathy from those not working weird shifts. Unfortunately, people like me are in the minority, so we are largely walked on by others (good luck trying to get your upstairs neighbor to quiet down her children that like to jump off her bed during the day...right above your room...or maintenance workers replacing shingles...etc.). I don't take it personally, though...I just have to live with it and learn to adapt as best as possible.

Things get worse the longer you work off-shifts, generally. It becomes harder to sleep during the day properly. You become progressively more exhausted and, to be honest, a bit crazy (starts to kick in after about 6 months). You can either flip your sleep schedule every weekend in an attempt to be somewhat normal, or you can try to live with stability and sleep during the day, every day. I do the latter, as switching my sleep schedule really affects me emotionally and physically (very, very rough). Plus, that would literally deprive me of sleep that I really need to do a good job and keep my head up while the sun is down. Keeping a consistent schedule is certainly healthier, but it comes with its own social and mental tolls (i.e. I spend my weekends alone doing my own thing in my apartment while my GF sleeps in the bedroom...kinda weird, but I'm used to it now.). I have a hard time getting to sleep outside of my "ideal" and standardized conditions anyway, so flipping my schedule on a weekly basis would probably be impossible for me.

I'm sure once I'm done, it will feel like time went by in a flash, and life will be back to normal. Won't care too much anymore then.

I don't like to complain about it because A) it was my choice, B) besides being a vampire, most everything else in life is good, and C) I know many people are in worse situations, and there are those that have worked off shifts for decades.

Edit: I know some people love it, as someone mentioned above! It's not all entirely downsides. It would be better for me if I wasn't so sensitive with sleeping and could swap. For example, I can't take naps. Just can't.
 
Last edited:

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,561
12,912
146
I've had to work a few night shifts. I never could adapt successfully to having my life schedule turned around. Of course, at the time, we had small kids in the house...and that is almost guaranteed to fuck up your chances to sleep during daylight hours.

The PLUS sides were shift differential pay. On a couple of jobs, it was more than a 20% increase...which helps, but many jobs pay the same, regardless of shift.

I've quit otherwise good jobs rather than work night shifts.
 

Ruptga

Lifer
Aug 3, 2006
10,246
207
106
Don't small kids get in the way of sleep during any hour?

Around here (BF midwest) typical starting pay is $8-10/hour, with night shifts getting $.20-1 more than first shift. I hate mornings, but working second shift is still too inconvenient to justify such a tiny increase in pay.

My ideal working hours would be 10 to 6 or 7, or maybe 12 to 8 or 9. Instead options are more like 5:30-2:00 or 2:00-10:30, and that's at the places that don't run ten hours every single day.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
i work midnights in an area that does NOT compensate with shift differential...blegh.... If i have to wake upbearly the next day, i get horrible jetlag symptoms and sometimes actually get sick.

i function very well on my routine schedule, but it sucks ass when you change it for one day.
 
Mar 10, 2005
14,647
2
0
i'm doing 4 10-hour days, and i usually get to sleep around 9 am, for 6 hours at most. my 3 days off pretty much don't exist, as i'm out cold for the 1st 2 and scrambling to get shit done on the 3rd. on the 1 day i called in i was struggling to tie my shoes, fuck working.

i need a better job.
 

cuafpr

Member
Nov 5, 2009
179
1
76
I work a rotating night shift of 6pm to 6 am. 2 on - 2 off - 3 on - 2 off- 2 on - 3 off. (and repeat) I can handle the nights but the rotation is what sucks... never have the same days off makes joining any club / sport / gaming circle near impossible as you will always miss one week.. That said I'd love to see gov't offices accommodate night shifts more via better hours cause it really is a different world.
 

PowerEngineer

Diamond Member
Oct 22, 2001
3,569
737
136
Op, you're trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill.

It's certainly true that not everyone can tolerate the physical strain of working in a 7/24 environment on graveyard or rotating shifts, and there certainly are some downsides when it comes to family and friends. On the other hand, there are also upsides. It's pretty nice to get a work week behind you with only three 12-hour shifts and have some weekdays free to avoid weekend crowds. The simple truth is that the people who end up staying with shift work are the ones who think the upsides more than compensate for the downsides.

When it comes to jury duty, companies are required to make arrangements to allow those called to serve; that includes work schedule changes for shift workers that allow them to be well rested.
 

Paladin3

Diamond Member
Mar 5, 2004
4,933
877
126
This is why we have judges. Judges can apply logic and reasoning to situations and hopefully make the correct decision. Any reasonable judge would automatically dismiss a juror who couldn't stay awake for the trial due to their work schedule.

Laws, by their nature, are fairly inflexible. Passing more in an attempt to cover all foreseeable situation is futile.

The next time someone says "there should be a law for that" slap them and suggest we just use a little common sense instead. Common sense > laws.
 
Last edited:

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,771
4,756
136
I have been working night shift ( 10:00 PM till 06:00 AM ) for 22 years. Flip flopping is hard, but I don't think it warrants any protection. We don't need more Government rules.
 

mizzou

Diamond Member
Jan 2, 2008
9,734
54
91
What rights aren't protected compared to other shifts, in particular?

I think he's just complaining that night shift workers have certain obstacles they face in vs. people who work regular 8-5 shifts.

Many night shift workers have issues finding stable child care places and little things like that.

None of those are "rights" issues, unless for some reason working a midnight shift prevents you from access to employee rights issues. I have no clue what employee type laws would be obstructed though by late shifts.
 

bguile

Senior member
Nov 30, 2011
529
51
91
Nah.

I've worked nights for like 15+ years. While I admit it would be nice, its not really needed. Your friend seems like an exception, as most people I have worked with on the night shift are accustomed to having to change their schedule to meet the rest of the worlds needs/demands. Its the norm to see someone working with little to no sleep for extended periods of time. They work nights for the benefits it provides, usually school or daycare, or they are just not morning people. When things like Jury duty come up, or a kid gets sick, or family crisis arises ( like a family member gets is hospitalized), you just suck it up and deal with it.
 

BurnItDwn

Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
26,173
1,652
126
Ehh, yes, adjustments/changing sleep schedule sucks.

I hate DST with every fiber of my being since I have to wake up an hour early every fvcking day until November.

I think before we worry about jury duty for night workers, we ought to do something about this plague of daylight savings time!
 

Newell Steamer

Diamond Member
Jan 27, 2014
6,894
8
0
I use to work overnight.

I would sleep 4 hours before the shift and 4 hours after - it was the only way I could get through the job. And, it was a nightmare.

I am never going back to working the overnight shift.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,561
12,912
146
Neighbor of mine that works graveyard hours has been very upset he was called into duty duty.

I really think laws should be designed to protect and support people with fixed nighttime work hours, and especially these graveyard workers that must and typically sleep during the day.

If one can prove they actually and routinely work graveyard, and must sleep during the day, then an exception should be granted from not only jury duty but from and legal activity requiring disruption to their nocturnal living schedule.

Night workers especially welcome to chime in here....

By "duty duty," do you mean cleaning up "doo-doo?" :whiste:

Graveyard workers have the same "rights" as anyone else...however, far too many people try to equate "rights" with things they "want."

Yes, I DO think folks who work the graveyard shift should be given some kind of accommodation for things like jury duty...if only because a person who has worked all night, isn't likely to be very observant or awake during court proceedings...something that can be boring as fuck for folks who had a good night's sleep.
I can't imagine the lawyers on either side really want a juror who can't pay attention because he/she is too tired to stay awake.