Should Intel cancel IvyBridge altogether?

[SHAQ]

Shoulda done water cooling :sneaky:

One of my main reasons was proper sata 6G.

Water and electricity don't mix bro.

 

[Puppies04]

95 watt
77 watt
where is exacly the same flame??

sandy die size 216mm2 95 watt 0,44watt/mm2
ivy die size 160mm2 77 watt 0,48watt/mm2

we have an increase of 9% at power density

temps have go up how much ???
from 60 to 80+??? that 33%
power density is not to be blamed for the hight temps alone

Care to elaborate on this.

My 2500K will hit 60C max at around 4.2ghz (it isn't a golden chip by a long run but hits 4.8 on air even if it gets a little toasty). So excluding "golden" SB chips what exact OC are you talking about where SB hits 60C and IB hits 80C max at the same speed.

 

[RampantAndroid]

Water and electricity don't mix bro.

First, I'm not your bro.

Second, people do WC all the time. And WC includes no conductive/capacitive coolants. But what do I know.

 

[Magic Carpet]

well franklly every new generation is not aiming for the people of the previous generation but for people 4+ generations back
okey lots in this forum went to buy ivy
but if intel or amd was aiming at you then they would be out of business decades ago
the cruel reality is
a)people buy new machines cause the old one has failed
b)people buy new machines because they can not run something new

and that does not include running bf3 or what ever game at low resolution at 20fps with all turned down
many people will still run the game and still will be satisfied with that
only when they could not actually run the game they will consider

well as for me if i had the money i would go from one build to another but that is me
but for the record i kept my pII233 for 6 years
simply the games i played it played it well evven the news ones
so did not feel the urge to upgrade

Great post :thumbsup:

 

[anikhtos]

Care to elaborate on this.

My 2500K will hit 60C max at around 4.2ghz (it isn't a golden chip by a long run but hits 4.8 on air even if it gets a little toasty). So excluding "golden" SB chips what exact OC are you talking about where SB hits 60C and IB hits 80C max at the same speed.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5763/undervolting-and-overclocking-on-ivy-bridge

the 3rd graph shows the ivy bridge at 4.2ghz at 85c
when your sandy hits 60c?

 

[RampantAndroid]

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5763/undervolting-and-overclocking-on-ivy-bridge

the 3rd graph shows the ivy bridge at 4.2ghz at 85c
when your sandy hits 60c?

When you show me the two procs hitting temps a equal perf levels on the SAME COOLING SOLUTIONS...let me know.

His SB at 4.2 is outperformed by IB at 4.2.

 

[anikhtos]

When you show me the two procs hitting temps a equal perf levels on the SAME COOLING SOLUTIONS...let me know.

His SB at 4.2 is outperformed by IB at 4.2.

at the same graph the 4.0 ghz ivy hits 82c
so lets say that sandy has a very good cooling
give sandy 10c in favor??
so lets see 60 for sandy
82-10=72 for ivy
thats 20% more temp
for 9% more power density

so the highter temp is not only due to power density
design flaw??? rearranging things in the die could made it cooler??
using of tim isntead of solder?

by the way i find it ironic to have a lower powewr cpu that runs hotter

 

[Forums7373]

well franklly every new generation is not aiming for the people of the previous generation but for people 4+ generations back
okey lots in this forum went to buy ivy
but if intel or amd was aiming at you then they would be out of business decades ago
the cruel reality is
a)people buy new machines cause the old one has failed
b)people buy new machines because they can not run something new

and that does not include running bf3 or what ever game at low resolution at 20fps with all turned down
many people will still run the game and still will be satisfied with that
only when they could not actually run the game they will consider

well as for me if i had the money i would go from one build to another but that is me
but for the record i kept my pII233 for 6 years
simply the games i played it played it well evven the news ones
so did not feel the urge to upgrade

Well said ol' chap ..well said.
I lurk on these forums from time to time and smirk cheekily as I upgrade whenever new tech comes out.

Got a 3770k and GTX690 (+ 3 x 3007WFP) on the way.. to add to the 3960k and 2700k -- I just hand them down to wife, kids, sister, parents.. when bored..

 

[RampantAndroid]

at the same graph the 4.0 ghz ivy hits 82c
so lets say that sandy has a very good cooling
give sandy 10c in favor??
so lets see 60 for sandy
82-10=72 for ivy
thats 20% more temp
for 9% more power density

so the highter temp is not only due to power density
design flaw??? rearranging things in the die could made it cooler??
using of tim isntead of solder?

Re-arranging things alone won't make it cooler. They have said that 22nm and the new transistors run warmer by nature. They also moved to TIM, which has in past CPUs caused CPUs to be less efficient at dissipating heat. But once again, who gives a crap? IB at stock is faster. So you're telling me that because this CPU isn't as good as SB for, what, 1% of all users (if it's even 1%) that IB is a failure? I sure hope you never work for any company. Ever.

I work on software for a living. I learned quickly that you care about the majority of users. If you have 2 bugs and time to only fix 1, and the first bug affects 40% of all users, and the other affects <1% of users...you mark the bug affecting less people as "won't fix."

by the way i find it ironic to have a lower powewr cpu that runs hotter

First off, learn to spell. Second off, it isn't ironic at all. It generates less heat. Period, end of story.

 

[anikhtos]

First off, learn to spell. Second off, it isn't ironic at all. It generates less heat. Period, end of story.

i said it runs hotter not generates less heat

thankfully the software companies like games do care about 100% of the users and release patches untill the fix all bugs
and frankly i do not like companies and people with the mentallity to say s#### you to the 1% so if it is 2% 3% still is bad and bad companies

 

[Zebo]

I'm from 4 generations back, 4 years back Bloomy and would still buy SB to duplicate my killer overclock of 1.6Ghz instead of measly 1Ghz ivy gives. But alas what for?

If you look at many reviews they STILL use an highly Oced 4 years old Bloomfeild on brand new graphic card tests like 7970 or GTX 680 and results are just like other sites using the new shit.

 

[RampantAndroid]

i said it runs hotter not generates less heat

thankfully the software companies like games do care about 100% of the users and release patches untill the fix all bugs
and frankly i do not like companies and people with the mentallity to say s#### you to the 1% so if it is 2% 3% still is bad and bad companies

I know what you said. I am correcting you. It does not dissipate heat as quickly due to two main issues.

Second, again....I work on software. Game companies don't care about all bugs. They prioritize them. Same as everyone else. If you think games are bug free, you're either delusional, or just posting crap. Remember BF2? Remember how it worked on widescreen monitors? Hey, I guess DICE really DID care about people with widescreen monitors. That's why they (*&#ed them in the *&#.

I'm from 4 generations back, 4 years back Bloomy and would still buy SB to duplicate my killer overclock of 1.6Ghz instead of measly 1Ghz ivy gives. But alas what for?

If you look at many reviews they STILL use an highly Oced 4 years old Bloomfeild on brand new graphic card tests like 7970 or GTX 680 and results are just like other sites using the new shit.

Any examples? I see tons of gulftown chips, very few bloomfield chips these days in reviews.

 

[Zebo]

Here is one remember
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/GeForce_GTX_680/6.html

 

[rgallant]

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/2012/04/23/intel-core-i7-3770k-review/7
-920@4.04 takes on ib. [does not win]

 

[2is]

i said it runs hotter not generates less heat

thankfully the software companies like games do care about 100% of the users and release patches untill the fix all bugs
and frankly i do not like companies and people with the mentallity to say s#### you to the 1% so if it is 2% 3% still is bad and bad companies

I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly... You think game companies release patches until every single bug on every single type of configuration is fixed? For your sake, I hope I'm just understanding you wrong.

 

[rge2]

95 watt
77 watt
where is exacly the same flame??

sandy die size 216mm2 95 watt 0,44watt/mm2
ivy die size 160mm2 77 watt 0,48watt/mm2

we have an increase of 9% at power density

temps have go up how much ???
from 60 to 80+??? that 33%
power density is not to be blamed for the hight temps alone

Overall die size is not critical dimension. A shrink in critical dimension = corresponding increase in power/thermal density. Power density is NOT uniform, hence total die size is irrelevant. When you shrink the critical dimension (CD) from 32nm to 22nm, the small areas where most of heat is consumed/dissipated are lessened in size corresponding to CD shrink. 150W consumed/dissipated with a small enough critical density will exceed nuclear reactor temps, irregardless of total die size.

Take 1 olympic swimming pool, and put 4 small 1 cubic foot areas consuming 150W total, put your finger on that heater, you will feel a little warm. Now take 2 olympic size swimming pools, and have that 150W dissipated over 1 mm3, and put your finger on that heater, it wont stay very long. That is critical dimension, swimming pool size was irrelevant.

See intel slide on power density vs critical dimension here.
http://www.overclockers.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7172189&postcount=42

 

[anikhtos]

I want to make sure I'm understanding this correctly... You think game companies release patches until every single bug on every single type of configuration is fixed? For your sake, I hope I'm just understanding you wrong.

well when i played orion2 it needed patch 1.31 to be playable
then there was no bugs left in the game
space empires 5 needed to go to 1.79 patch to make the game playable

and by bug we mean an error that prevents you from playing not a patch to change something people do not liked in the game
both games had serious bugs that crashed the game.at orion2 with the latest patch that made the game at last stable they changed the power level of a gun cause peopel were saying it was too strong!!?!??!?!
but that is not bug fixing
i only play turn base strategy games sooooooooooooo i do not know the games you refer too

 

[2is]

well when i played orion2 it needed patch 1.31 to be playable
then there was no bugs left in the game
space empires 5 needed to go to 1.79 patch to make the game playable

and by bug we mean an error that prevents you from playing not a patch to change something people do not liked in the game
both games had serious bugs that crashed the game.at orion2 with the latest patch that made the game at last stable they changed the power level of a gun cause peopel were saying it was too strong!!?!??!?!
but that is not bug fixing
i only play turn base strategy games sooooooooooooo i do not know the games you refer too

Im not talking about patches to change game dynamics either. So now you're only talking about complete game breaking bugs, you did say 100% of bugs before, are you now retracting that?

 

[anikhtos]

Im not talking about patches to change game dynamics either. So now you're only talking about complete game breaking bugs, you did say 100% of bugs before, are you now retracting that?

well orion2 after patch1.31 has no bug
not one i manage to recreate or any of the people i was playing online
soooooooo
i can say it is bug free can not??

 

[2is]

I have no idea if it's bug free or not, do a google search see if anyone is having problems. Furthermore, that's ONE game, you made it seem like there is no such thing as a game with bugs, then you limited it to completely game breaking bugs, now you're limiting it to game breaking bugs in a single game. Your original statement is inaccurate, that's the bottom line. There are far fewer people who have issues with IB than there are people who experience bugs in games. And the issues with IB are "i can't OC to 5GHz" which isn't a bug at all.

 

[anikhtos]

I have no idea if it's bug free or not, do a google search see if anyone is having problems. Furthermore, that's ONE game, you made it seem like there is no such thing as a game with bugs, then you limited it to completely game breaking bugs, now you're limiting it to game breaking bugs in a single game. Your original statement is inaccurate, that's the bottom line. There are far fewer people who have issues with IB than there are people who experience bugs in games. And the issues with IB are "i can't OC to 5GHz" which isn't a bug at all.

well noone can play all games
and when i play a game i play it for 5-6 months
and then i consider switching to a new
unless the game is not good at all lol

 

[2is]

If not everyone can play every game, you're short of 100%

Its silly to compare game bugs to CPU issues. Games have more problems than CPU's, period.

I will agree with you that IB is not aiming for SB owners.

 

[anikhtos]

If not everyone can play every game, you're short of 100%

Its silly to compare game bugs to CPU issues. Games have more problems than CPU's, period.

I will agree with you that IB is not aiming for SB owners.

i am not comperign software to hardware issues
i simply answered to someone that brought the matter to software levels
wihsing me never to find a job
and that he works in a software company that release software bugy
and they wont try to fix all the bugs
i never compared software to hardware
and there can not be any comparison because they are diferent things.

as for me the last year i am intrigued by the idea of a fairy strong system that can be pasively cooled and still run pretty cool
apparenlty ivy will not do that for me
was holding for ivy release cause i belived it may have lower temps than ivy or even lower consumption
aparently temp is worse and power consumption is the same
i am refering to the t chips that have 45watt!!?!?!?!?
can anyone figure out why intel could not lower the power consumption to this low power chips to 35 watt??
ivy is gone down 18 watt from 95 to 77
but the power efficient chips consume the same 45 to 45 watt
can i express my disapointment now?!?!?!
also was thinking of a xeon chip e3 line just for the ecc support but the e3 v2 chips will not have pci-e v3 support!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so i will end buying an e3-1260l and call it an end


[redacted]

Mod callouts are done at your own peril. Things are looking prety perilous right now I'd say...
-ViRGE

 

[2is]

Are you just guessing and making things up as you go along? How are you determining that power consumption is the same? Have you read even a single review? Every one shows consumption is lower. Including the review here at AT.

 

[aaksheytalwar]

Are you just guessing and making things up as you go along? How are you determining that power consumption is the same? Have you read even a single review? Every one shows consumption is lower. Including the review here at AT.

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