Should I return/sell my i7 920 D0 and buy a W3520 Xeon?

[ChorniyVolk]

I hear it's quite a bit better but maybe I heard wrong.

As far as motherboards, I haven't decided between an EVGA E758, EVGA E760, P6X58D or a UD7.

Thanks.

 

[Piano Man]

I guess the question is what are you trying to achieve with the new CPU as a decently OC'd 920 is no slouch.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

Well I'm planning on overclocking the i7 to 3.8Ghz or more, I've got an NH-D14 cooler so I'm sure I can hit it at decent temps.

But can't the W3520 overclock even higher at lower temps and stuff?

As far as use, well is there anywhere an i7 920 would work better than a W3520?

On an unrelated note, why did you go with the ATCS 840 and the 850HX? I'm still choosing cases but the 840 is up there on my list of which ones to consider, and the HX I've already bought but I'm worried there is a better option for the price (or equal for less).

 

[Rubycon]

If it cannot do 4GHz than it's a dog. You set the bar too low.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Stick with the 920

 

[ChorniyVolk]

Well Ruby, that's the problem with the i7, sometimes you get a crappy chip, but the other plus I heard about the W3520 is that they alsp handpick them more carefully to make sure they're good quality.

BTRY, why do you say that?

and on another unrelated note, why did you go with the 760 for your 3rd rig?

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I bought a server chip a while back; during the 939 era, and it overclocked worse than my FX60.

The 760 is almost a guaranteed great overclocking MB. The Asrock is no slouch either but I'm going to overclock that 760 game rig with liquid cooling from my old Q9650/9550 loop. It's just sad that the 760 and the PSU I want to use for it needed a revision update before they became compatible. The Evolution 1250 Enermax needs that PSU with a S/N above 95xxxxxx in order to work properly. The only drawback is getting one with that S/N from a slow moving stockpile.

 

[Rubycon]

I bought a server chip a while back; during the 939 era, and it overclocked worse than my FX60.

The 760 is almost a guaranteed great overclocking MB. The Asrock is no slouch either but I'm going to overclock that 760 game rig with liquid cooling from my old Q9650/9550 loop. It's just sad that the 760 and the PSU I want to use for it needed a revision update before they became compatible. The Evolution 1250 Enermax needs that PSU with a S/N above 95xxxxxx in order to work properly. The only drawback is getting one with that S/N from a slow moving stockpile.

I thought the 760 was fine even with pre 95 SN Evo G 1250s. The 759 DEFINITELY has the problem though.

 

[Piano Man]

Well I'm planning on overclocking the i7 to 3.8Ghz or more, I've got an NH-D14 cooler so I'm sure I can hit it at decent temps.

But can't the W3520 overclock even higher at lower temps and stuff?

As far as use, well is there anywhere an i7 920 would work better than a W3520?

On an unrelated note, why did you go with the ATCS 840 and the 850HX? I'm still choosing cases but the 840 is up there on my list of which ones to consider, and the HX I've already bought but I'm worried there is a better option for the price (or equal for less).

Well I've had the 840 for over a year now, and just recently upgraded my Corsair 620HX to the 850HX when moving to the i7. Gave my Pops the old equipment. The 850HX is a newer PS design, and has an excellent 12v Rail along with PCGold certification all the way up to 50C. You can go bigger I suppose. I'd only get 1000w or more if I were to do a TriFire/TriSLI setup with perhaps some WC gear as well.

I've got the same HS as you, and even though its a beast, you can still remove the MoBo Tray with it on. I got my i7 up chuggin' 4.2 on the ASRock MoBo which is about as cheap of X58 that you can do. Temps are in the low 70s at full load, and that's with a nearly silent rig setup using the S-Flex E Fans along with those big 240mm case fans. For 180-190 dollars, the ATCS is still probably the best for the price. You can get better, but then you're spending 250-300+. Just remember that the ATCS is big, but its classy looking as well.


I agree with Ruby though. If you are going for a sub 4.0Ghz OC with that HeatSink/Fan then any i7 920 D0 will do the trick.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

But does the W3520 lose to the i7 920 in any way or does it beat it in every way? I mean, if I decide to overclock higher in the future or just want better temps I'm worried I'll regret this moment unless there is some reason that the 920 makes up for it with.

Off Topic

BTRY, when did you get the 760?

Piano, yeah, the 850HX seems great, but there are some cheaper 1000w-1200w options like from BFG that look good. I suppose in the end the fact that it's mostly modular, looks good, has a long warranty from a reliable company, and provides good quality power can pretty much outweigh an extra bit of power, especially when you're looking at it lasting for years.

About the NH-D14, good to know, I'm glad that it can get better temps than that IFX-14 but isn't as humongous as it is.

As far as the 840, actually I am willing to pay that much, see here: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2032958

I have plenty of cases to consider, any comments on them or why the 840 is a better choice? I'm aiming for those sleek looking cases like the 840, and I do love the 230mm fans, but the other cases have tricks up their sleeves too.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

I thought the 760 was fine even with pre 95 SN Evo G 1250s. The 759 DEFINITELY has the problem though.

From what I gathered in the Classified section of the EVGA forums, alot of people reported problems with 760 & pre 95 s/n Evo's. I had an e-mail conversation with Tom Lac of Enermax and Said there was a problem, but went on to say that all Classified boards ending in A1 were compatible. Well, i went and researched the Classified boards and guess what, all of their models end in A1 - even the early ones so something is a miss there. So I suspect the pre 95 s/n PSU's are not the sought after PSU/MB combo, ... post 95's would be a safe bet.

 

[BTRY B 529th FA BN]

Off Topic

BTRY, when did you get the 760?

I think I bought it about 3 months ago.

 

[Zap]

If it cannot do 4GHz than it's a dog.

I'd like to think of it as, "If it cannod do 4GHz, then either it isn't a D0 stepping, you are using the wrong motherboard or you need better cooling."

Alternately, something I read in another post... "need moar jiggawatts!"

 

[Rubycon]

I'd like to think of it as, "If it cannod do 4GHz, then either it isn't a D0 stepping, you are using the wrong motherboard or you need better cooling."

Alternately, something I read in another post... "need moar jiggawatts!"

I had a C0 that could muster 4GHz but it needed 1.5volts and temperatures were lava like.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

So, er, any info on comparing the 920 to the W3520? It's true then about it achieving higher clocks and running cooler, or no? I'm just wondering why everyone thinks I should keep the 920 if for the around same price I could get the W3520, unless all of it is lies and there is no difference between them other than the W3520 chips that are sold were selected with a bit more attention to quality; but wouldn't even that be worth going for one instead? I might have gotten a shitty 920 chip, and if I test it out (which might not happen for a week or 2) then I doubt I'll be able to return it (or would I? Bought it from TigerDirect, I'll have to ask if they'd accept it without charging me a restocking fee) and/or I'll have to sell it "Used" for less.

This is assuming we forgot convenience (already in my hands vs go through returning an item and then ordering a new one), because I still have some time before I get the rest of my parts together.

BTRY, ah I see; I only ask because the UD7 and the P6X58D (as mentioned in the OP) are 2 boards I'm considering with the E760, so I figured if you bought it recently (when they were released) then you'd maybe have some advice, but I suppose it's silly to assume that you would even consider the same boards I would when you could be wanting something completely different out of a board than I do.

Thanks guys, appreciate the help.

 

[Shmee]

I had a C0 that could muster 4GHz but it needed 1.5volts and temperatures were lava like.

My old C0 could do 4 GHz with HT off, but needed like 1.48 Vcore, and temps were a tad high.

 

[Painman]

So, er, any info on comparing the 920 to the W3520? It's true then about it achieving higher clocks and running cooler, or no? I'm just wondering why everyone thinks I should keep the 920 if for the around same price I could get the W3520, unless all of it is lies and there is no difference between them other than the W3520 chips that are sold were selected with a bit more attention to quality; but wouldn't even that be worth going for one instead? I might have gotten a shitty 920 chip, and if I test it out (which might not happen for a week or 2) then I doubt I'll be able to return it (or would I? Bought it from TigerDirect, I'll have to ask if they'd accept it without charging me a restocking fee) and/or I'll have to sell it "Used" for less.

This is assuming we forgot convenience (already in my hands vs go through returning an item and then ordering a new one), because I still have some time before I get the rest of my parts together.

BTRY, ah I see; I only ask because the UD7 and the P6X58D (as mentioned in the OP) are 2 boards I'm considering with the E760, so I figured if you bought it recently (when they were released) then you'd maybe have some advice, but I suppose it's silly to assume that you would even consider the same boards I would when you could be wanting something completely different out of a board than I do.

Thanks guys, appreciate the help.

One of these CPUs supports ECC (The Xeon), the other doesn't...

If you just want a better chance of a better OCing chip, buy another 920. Intel produces far more of them, so your chances of getting a better "ticket" within that "lottery pool" is better simply because it's much larger.

But you'd probably just be wasting your $.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

Why would Intel producing more i7 920s mean I have a higher chance of getting a good one? If it's true that they check the W3520s more carefully then the chances increase for it, and if it's not true then not knowing anything else, they should have an equal chance.

If there are more good i7 920s, then there are more bad ones, unless I'm missing some bigger factor here, in which case please enlighten me because I'm confused.

Oh and can you give me a layman's on the purpose/function of ECC in the CPU? Who needs it and why? Thanks.

 

[Painman]

Why would Intel producing more i7 920s mean I have a higher chance of getting a good one? If it's true that they check the W3520s more carefully then the chances increase for it, and if it's not true then not knowing anything else, they should have an equal chance.

If there are more good i7 920s, then there are more bad ones, unless I'm missing some bigger factor here, in which case please enlighten me because I'm confused.

Oh and can you give me a layman's on the purpose/function of ECC in the CPU? Who needs it and why? Thanks.

Economy of Scale, Chorniy. There are way, way more Desktop PCs out there than Server PCs.

ECC = Error Correcting Code. Damned Sunspots. Someone really ought to teach that star a thing or 2 about keeping its magnetic field under control.

A Xeon is a wee bit more complex than an i7 920 because its memory controller *has* to be a bit wider. A 920's contains less circuity, and is therefore less susceptible to fatal manufacturing errors than a W3520's. For all I know, maybe they're all cut from the same wafers, and just laser-lobotimized a wee bit in order to become a 920.

But if that's the case, the main test of whether a given chip is an i7 or a W3520 is the integrity of the mem controller. They all have to have workable ALUs, FPUs, register units, cache modules, etc.

So, I tend not to believe that a Xeon really has a better chance of hitting 4 GHz than an i7. Just a certification that its mem controller circuitry is up to certain levels of snuff, which says nothing about the integrity of the rest of the chip. They ALL have to be able to run flat-out, 24/7 at stock speed... server chip or not.

 

[Rubycon]

My old C0 could do 4 GHz with HT off, but needed like 1.48 Vcore, and temps were a tad high.

Yes it was cooler with HT off and even would go a little higher (4.1) but the loss of threads affected encoding too much. As a matter of fact 3.8 w/HT encoded faster than 4.0 w/HT OFF. Go figure.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

Economy of Scale, Chorniy. There are way, way more Desktop PCs out there than Server PCs.

ECC = Error Correcting Code. Damned Sunspots. Someone really ought to teach that star a thing or 2 about keeping its magnetic field under control.

A Xeon is a wee bit more complex than an i7 920 because its memory controller *has* to be a bit wider. A 920's contains less circuity, and is therefore less susceptible to fatal manufacturing errors than a W3520's. For all I know, maybe they're all cut from the same wafers, and just laser-lobotimized a wee bit in order to become a 920.

But if that's the case, the main test of whether a given chip is an i7 or a W3520 is the integrity of the mem controller. They all have to have workable ALUs, FPUs, register units, cache modules, etc.

So, I tend not to believe that a Xeon really has a better chance of hitting 4 GHz than an i7. Just a certification that its mem controller circuitry is up to certain levels of snuff, which says nothing about the integrity of the rest of the chip. They ALL have to be able to run flat-out, 24/7 at stock speed... server chip or not.

So what you mean is that with more chips being produced, there's very little chance they'll let the number of bad chips scale with the increased production, which in turn lowers the percentage of bad chips to good chips in the case of the i7, and therefore I have a higher chance of getting good i7 chip than the less produced W3520 chips?

And the only difference between the two chips is the memory controller then? Which the average consumer won't really see much of a difference for, unless they very frequently use processes that access the RAM a lot? Any examples that would benefit from the increased controller so I can see that it won't make any difference to me and therefore shut this door and enjoy my 920?

Thanks.

 

[cbn]

I hear it's quite a bit better but maybe I heard wrong.

As far as motherboards, I haven't decided between an EVGA E758, EVGA E760, P6X58D or a UD7.

Thanks.

Why do you want to sell one "low bin" Nehalem to buy another "low bin" Nehalem?

Aren't these parts priced exactly the same?

I would think the odds of you getting a good chip would be exactly the same with both cpus.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

So I just read about the i7 930.

Is it going to be better than the i7 920 D0, or is it just clocked an extra .2 GHz and that's it? Q1 2010 isn't that long from now (well technically it's already here), so I mean, I can afford to wait a little bit (and quickly sell my current 920) if it's much better, but all I'm hearing is it's exactly the same chip, only clocked a little higher (which is worthless for me, as I'll be overclocking it much higher anyway).

So what's the news on it?

 

[cbn]

So I just read about the i7 930.

Is it going to be better than the i7 920 D0, or is it just clocked an extra .2 GHz and that's it? Q1 2010 isn't that long from now (well technically it's already here), so I mean, I can afford to wait a little bit (and quickly sell my current 920) if it's much better, but all I'm hearing is it's exactly the same chip, only clocked a little higher (which is worthless for me, as I'll be overclocking it much higher anyway).

So what's the news on it?

If you really want a true improvement buy one of the upcoming 32nm Xeon quad cores (they have more L3 cache than the 45nm chips)

In the meantime just buy whatever is the cheapest D0 stepping Core i7.

 

[ChorniyVolk]

Oh I'll definitely grab one eventually, but how much are they going to cost on release? The 4 core 32nm will cost like $500 won't it? And the 6 core $1000? I'd rather not early adopt, considering the i7 920 will already give me quite a humongous room of power that I'll probably struggle to fill.