Should I replace my Athlon Xp 2400+ with an Xp 2400+ M?

[onemorekornkid]

Athlon 2400+ (oc'ed to 2.2 ghrz, 145x15)
1024mb Kingston Hyper-X series pc 2700
eVGA 6800gt
Abit NF7-S

I want upgrade my processor because it is really killing my 6800 gt in games ( Doom 3 goes down to 20 fps with 2 enemies on screen and when I use the flashlight, there is a 10-20 fps performance drop, and for Far Cry outdoor levels, it averages 20 fps and during fights is goes from 15-20 fps.) I don't have money upgrade my processor to an A64 and there is also timing issues (I want to get a 64 bit processor when PCi-E is mainstream so I don't have to keep updating my mobo) so I looked into the xp-m processors which I've heard oc amazingly.

My question is, would the extra 256 l2 cache help me in games, if I oc it to 2400 mhrz (which I hear is kind of the standard) will I still have those big fps drops in the games I mentioned. Will intense AI and multiplayer games run smoother? Would the upgrade be worth it all around?

Thanks in advance

 

[Avalon]

You will probably see your biggest gain, not from the extra 256kb L2 cache or extra 200mhz clock speed that you expect, but from being able to run at a much higher FSB. A 145 FSB is rather limited. Your NF7 should be able to run a FSB of 216mhz pretty easily (DDR 433 *Typo*), but now you'll have to worry about your memory holding you back from reaching that speed. If you can at least get your memory to do PC3200 and run synchronously with the CPU at a 200mhz FSB, you'll be good. Then you may want to consider the mobile barton.

 

[MegaWorks]

I think would see gain in performance, I heard that if an XP-M is at 2400MHZ - FSB400 it's equal to athlon XP 3600+.

 

[onemorekornkid]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I don't even think my RAM is running at pc2300 speeds due to my low FSB (I forget the exact rate it is running at now but I know it operates at DDR 266 when my cpu isn't oc'ed) so that should leave me some room to oc right?

PLus Hyper-X ram is very good at oc'ing (or atleast from what I've read).


But do you know how much of an improvement this will be in terms of gaming?

 

[MegaWorks]

oh Sh!t you got PC2300, wow! thats low upgrade dude! get yourself one of these PC3200 and clock your FSB at 400 + your GT you'll have a combo!!!

 

[onemorekornkid]

No, I have PC2700 but it's operating at lower speeds because of my low FSB

 

[trexpesto]

Cant lower the multi with wire trick?

 

[Toro 45]

If you can get your fsb to 200+ and with the extra L2 cache you should see a nice boost in performance. Will it be enough to satisfify doom3, I don't know but I do know that your 145fsb is kinda doggy so it should help.

I take it your multiplier is locked on the chip you have now?


Now that I think about it you could try this with your current setup it's a pin mod that unlocks the multiplier

 

[charloscarlies]

Should I replace my Athlon Xp 2400+ with an Xp 2400+ M?

Yes....but make sure you get the 35 watt version. Then sell your chip on the FS/FT forums.

 

[trexpesto]

Originally posted by: Toro 45
If you can get your fsb to 200+ and with the extra L2 cache you should see a nice boost in performance. Will it be enough to satisfify doom3, I don't know but I do know that your 145fsb is kinda doggy so it should help.

I take it your multiplier is locked on the chip you have now?


Now that I think about it you could try this with your current setup it's a pin mod that unlocks the multiplier

AKA the wire trick:
<br>http://www.logan.eclipse.co.u...d's_&amp;_bartons.htm


In addition I recommend flattening the wire with a hammer if you can so that it does not tilt the CPU as much.

 

[trexpesto]

WTF here is the LINK works great on my TBred and AN35N

 

[Avalon]

Well, if you can't get your 2400+ OC'd to a 200mhz FSB, or even close, go ahead and buy the 35 watt mobile barton 2400+. You'll probably notice a difference in gaming if you can run it synch with your memory at something like 200x12.

 

[ktch]

Agreed. I have 1700+ and pc2700 memory running at 205x10. Your memory should be able to run at 200 FSB, the only question is your CPU?

 

[Poulsonator]

I unlocked my 2400+ over the weekend (finally), and was able to get it up to 200x11. I'm still using PC2700 as well, and it was able to hit PC3200 with that overclock. Anything after that, though, was unstable.

 

[trexpesto]

Originally posted by: Poulsonator
I unlocked my 2400+ over the weekend (finally), and was able to get it up to 200x11. I'm still using PC2700 as well, and it was able to hit PC3200 with that overclock. Anything after that, though, was unstable.

You go Pengie! Edit and oh yeah what voltage did you bump the RAM up to? and did you relax the timings to what settings? Come to think of it what core do you have and what VCore did you use? Might help out the OP...

 

[Poulsonator]

Originally posted by: trexpesto

You go Pengie! Edit and oh yeah what voltage did you bump the RAM up to? and did you relax the timings to what settings? Come to think of it what core do you have and what VCore did you use? Might help out the OP...

Voltages:

Default VCore - 1.65
OC VCore - 1.75

Default RAM - 2.5
OC RAM - 2.6

RAM Settings in BIOS - Normal (I tried going up to Turbo, but my OS would lock - I'll post exact RAM settings tonight)

Only had to go up .1 on both, so not bad I suppose. Also, not sure on the exact core (Thoroughbred I suppose - forgot to write it down when I unlocked and re-applied my ceramique), but it's the one that only needed the last L3 bridge connected in order to unlock:

LINKY

I tried upping the VCore to as high as 1.85, and messed with the RAM voltage to try and push it even more, but it was no use. However, I think that's mostly due to my aging motherboard than anything (EPoX 8K5A2+). I've heard of people getting FSB's of 220+ with this chip, and one of the best speeds I read about was a 198.x12.5 stable. Not bad at all.

Oh, and my temps are around 50 idle and 60 at full load (never higher than 60, even after 7+ hours of Prime95).

Edited for spelling

 

[onemorekornkid]

I've known about that wire trick though I am a bit unsure about hard mods (I am even nervous of installing cpus).

If I unlock my 2400+ will I be able to OC it as much as the mobile 2400+?






EDIT: i am just gonna play it safe and not risk breaking my cpu and sell it. Just to get final thoughts before I put this thing on ebay, will games that are heavy on AI (AKA Far Cry, or Half Life 2)?

Thanks a lot for your patience.


EDIT AGAIN: Why would I need the 35 watt version?

 

[Poulsonator]

Originally posted by: onemorekornkid
I've known about that wire trick though I am a bit unsure about hard mods (I am even nervous of installing cpus).

I didn't use the wiretrick. I used the XP Unlocking Kit from HighSpeedPC.com. It's similar to the "pencil trick" in that you basically are connecting two points on the top of the chip. The best part is I can simply use a cleaning agent to clean it all off if I need to. It was very, very easy and it only took a few minutes (it took much longer to take my mobo out of my case, take off my heatsink, clean off the AS, re-apply the ceramique, etc.).

 

[maluckey]

onemorekornkid

First off, the KHX2700 RAM That you have may be BH-5. Many of the older modules of KHX2700 were. If it is, you can run it at 222 x 11 as I do with my KHX2700/512. PM me if you ever want to sell it.

Second: Your current CPU should be able to run at 2.3 Mhz without a fuss. My XP-2100+ T-bred B could run waaaay faster, and it's generally agreeed that the 2400+ is a better OC'er. The only real reason to ditch it is if it's locked. If so, the 220 XP-M is cheaper, and OC very well, maybe as well as the 2400+.

If it (your CPU) is not locked Gradually raise the FSB, and monitor temps and stability. A good goal would be to try 200 x 11. At that level, nothing would be working hard, and your gaming would be worlds better.

 

[onemorekornkid]

I bought a stick about a year ago, and one 3 months ago.

My CPU is locked right now and I am to scarred to do any hard mods to anything so I am just gonna sell this chip and get a new one.


EDIT: And why should I get the 35 watt CPU? I have a 420 watt psu.

 

[trexpesto]

Originally posted by: onemorekornkid
I bought a stick about a year ago, and one 3 months ago.

My CPU is locked right now and I am to scarred to do any hard mods to anything so I am just gonna sell this chip and get a new one.


EDIT: And why should I get the 35 watt CPU? I have a 420 watt psu.

Well if you can't get too good of money for it, then you can OC it. It's good to learn on your obsolete stuff rather than the good stuff is my opinion, although I have never fried anything yet. Plus I am not totally broke now and it's something I wanted to learn, mostly to save money and expand the useful lifetime of my gear. Think of it as the price of a cheap textbook.

The wire trick is not drama, mostly the risks are removing and reinstalling the HS if you have clipon, and static dangers. I dont think of it as a hard mod, more a hard tweak since it is so reversible. You can also do it on the back side of the mobo (PCB view in that interactive guide), not sure if your pins are loopable though.

Good question why the 35W. Anyone know for sure?
My idea was that it may be a higher quality silicon chip if it runs 35W and does the same spec as 45W. Someone told me they put out the same heat if you have to use the same voltage to get to the same OC, but not 100% sure on that. If I have time I'll search around.


As far as unlocking kits, I think it is highly likely that conductive grease could work, the stuff they sell at auto stores for your spark plug connectors called silicone dilectric compound. Comes in mini tubes. Anyone tried it?

 

[onemorekornkid]

I think I am gonna still just sell my processor that I have now because it gets up to 120*F at 145 FSB, think of how hott it would get higher (I hear of the mobiles not getting too hott)


EDIT: Actually, I thinhk I might try it and see what results I get.can someone link me to the wire trick mod?

And before I do it? Will i get the same results as I would doing this on a 2400+ m?

 

[Jeff7181]

Why would I need the 35 watt version?

I could go into a long explanation of why... but basically... if it runs at the same speed, and puts out less watts of heat, it's more efficient. That means it SHOULD overclock better than say, a regular 45 watt Mobile processor. It has nothing to do with what your power supply is rated at.

Just because it SHOULD overclock better, doesn't mean it will. It might just be capable of running at really low voltages and still be stable, but it's maximum may not be any higher than any other Mobile Barton.

 

[trexpesto]

Thanks for that Jeff.

Originally posted by: onemorekornkid
I think I am gonna still just sell my processor that I have now because it gets up to 120*F at 145 FSB, think of how hott it would get higher (I hear of the mobiles not getting too hott)

120F=48C is not horrible, I like 55C for my max, 65 for my auto shutdown temp.

If you overclock more your temps will go up, so keep an eye on them with Abit EQ, and set a safe shutdown temp in the BIOS' PC Health options. You may need better cooling to get a better overclock, that is usually what people do.

So the idea is once you do the wire trick (Link: Search for WTF above, or the other guy's' post right next to it) you can lower your multiplier from whatever via the BIOS, I think stock is 12.5, down to a nice low number so you can raise the FSB as much as possible with your current cooling, shooting for 200.

Check out the overclocking guide sticky here on CPU/Procs and OC forum!

Start off easy with like 9 multi because 9x200 will be about the same MHz as you run now and so it shouldn't overheat.
Up the FSB gradually towards 200. If your machine doesn't post, loosen your RAM timings (increase the numbers) and/or let them run on Auto temporarily. Once you get your FSB up, you can start upping the multi and giving slight increases to the cpu voltage (VCore) if it needs it. Search around for other people's results with similar hardware. If your temps prevent you from making 200, you can just go as high as you can. I am pretty sure you will be able to at least get 166, which is the natural speed of PC-2700 RAM anyway. (DDR 333/2 = 166), but higher is better.

Then once you get your CPU up stable (run Prime95 for a few hours) and you don't have heat problems, you can address the RAM overclock. The idea is you want to run it at 100% option rather than Auto or SPD. That is also called 1:1 ratio. First try to change the RAM setting to 100% with loosened timings. You will likely need to increase the RAM voltage (VCore). After you have the RAM stable (more Prime95), you can try tightening the timings as much as possible, but since you are going for a substantial RAM OC, I would not expect to be able to tighten them very much.

Will i get the same results as I would doing this on a 2400+ m?

Well you have aTBred, right? So the cache is less and that will affect it. Only one way to find out for sure though

 

[Jeff7181]

Originally posted by: onemorekornkid
I think I am gonna still just sell my processor that I have now because it gets up to 120*F at 145 FSB, think of how hott it would get higher (I hear of the mobiles not getting too hott)


EDIT: Actually, I thinhk I might try it and see what results I get.can someone link me to the wire trick mod?

And before I do it? Will i get the same results as I would doing this on a 2400+ m?

Doing what, the wire mod? You don't need to wire mod a Mobile processor because they all come unlocked so power saving features can be used on laptops to reduce the CPU's speed to save battery power and reduce heat output.

If you're talking about overclocking, you'll get better results with a mobile 2400+, I'd bet money on it. For one, it's based on a newer core and on a more mature manufacturing process (which basically means, inline with my last post, more efficient). It also has a larger core surface to dissipate heat through because of the larger cache... so Bartons almost always run cooler than a Thoroughbred at the same speed and voltage.