Should I join my sump pump exhaust to gutter drains?

[StageLeft]

sump.jpg

I'm finally burying my drains with 4" PVC. My sump pump, in the pic here, outputs with a 1.5" PVC. It goes very infrequently but to date has just gone to daylight with a few inches sticking out (I excavated around for this pic).

My drains will terminate around where the end of the far trench is here with one of the pop-up things that floats up when wet, and has a tiny hole at the elbow so that there's not standing water.

Other than the cost of fittings to get the 1.5" into the 4" (about $25, honestly, I've parted it out), my other concern is freezing. Freezing is not a problem with the drains, and generally if they're frozen it's too cold to have much water flowing anyway, but even with a little gravel underneath the final terminator for the 4" I still wonder if I'm just going to make things worse merely to save a few inches of PVC sticking out!

 

[alyarb]

interesting lawn. where do you live?

 

[BoomerD]

Why not just plumb the sump pump output into your sewer drain somewhere in the basement?

I installed a couple of sump pumps when we lived in Utah for family members and we always just connected them to the sewer line.

 

[MikeMike]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Why not just plumb the sump pump output into your sewer drain somewhere in the basement?

I installed a couple of sump pumps when we lived in Utah for family members and we always just connected them to the sewer line.

bingo

or if you dont have a sewer drain, use the septic drain pipe... not that hard to do, and typically the sump pump is located right under the sewer/septic drain anyways.

 

[mugs]

I really can't tell what's going on in that picture or your description, BUT - you can get a fitting that will allow the water to still flow out of the sump pump pipe even if the drain pipe freezes or clogs. It's intended to be installed vertically between your 1.5" sump pump pipe and the 4" drain pipe, so the water basically drops from the 1.5" pipe into the larger hole of the 4" pipe, but if the 4" pipe is frozen the water can go out the sides of the fitting. I'm not really sure why you even need the fitting honestly, just leaving vertical gap between the two pipes would achieve the same effect (though it wouldn't look as nice)

 

[nickbits]

Connecting the sump pump output to sewer is a code violation in a lot of places. If you can connect to the storm system that is the best option.

 

[StageLeft]

I live in Western NY.

I'm pretty sure I cannot hook to sewer drain, and certainly it would be even more work at this point!

Mugs, a fitting like that sounds good. In the pic, close, is my existing sump outlet and then far is a trench that I'm about to put the 4" PVC into.

 

[SarcasticDwarf]

Where do the gutter drains terminate? If they go into a city pipe, watershed, etc it may be violating code to connect them.

 

[iGas]

National Plumbing Code:

Sump vent are not allow to connect to rain water leader.
Sump vent must be individually vented to outside air or connect to soil waste vent that connect above all soil waste drainage.

If exhaust = to discharge.
Then sump waste water must discharge to storm sewer as required in most area.

Combine building drainage/sewer (soil waste water + storm water + sub soil drainage) are employ in rural areas and are subject to local code.

Sump discharge (sub soil drainage water) can go into a storm drainage field in most area that employs 2 pipes system (separate pipes for storm & soil waste pipe) or combine building drainage/sewer, however it is subject to local code.

A.K.A call or look up local building code at your city hall.

PS. Where can I send the bill since Canadians are making so much more money in IT south of the border?

 

[StageLeft]

I think it's fine to code--just mainly concerned about freezing--thanks for posts!

 

[waffleironhead]

Originally posted by: MIKEMIKE

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Why not just plumb the sump pump output into your sewer drain somewhere in the basement?

I installed a couple of sump pumps when we lived in Utah for family members and we always just connected them to the sewer line.

bingo

or if you dont have a sewer drain, use the septic drain pipe... not that hard to do, and typically the sump pump is located right under the sewer/septic drain anyways.

You do not want all of that excess water being pumped into your septic system, and most municipalities do not want it run into the sewer either. Best bet is to yard discharge like you are planning.

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Why not just plumb the sump pump output into your sewer drain somewhere in the basement?

I installed a couple of sump pumps when we lived in Utah for family members and we always just connected them to the sewer line.

This would be against code almost everywhere, especially where Skoorb is. The sewer co. does not want to have to treat your rain water.
Skoorb, if that pic shows the total distance to your gutter outfall pop-up, (property line?), then it would hardly be worth it to join the two. Also, with an extended downpour, a single pop-up might not be able to handle the amount of water. Just dig the trench of your sump line over a few more feet, and add a pop-up for it. I have installed 3 of these pop-ups on our property, and freezing has never been a problem. A word to the wise, if your soil is clay like mine, MORE GRAVEL!

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: runzwithsizorz

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Why not just plumb the sump pump output into your sewer drain somewhere in the basement?

I installed a couple of sump pumps when we lived in Utah for family members and we always just connected them to the sewer line.

This would be against code almost everywhere, especially where Skoorb is. The sewer co. does not want to have to treat your rain water.
Skoorb, if that pic shows the total distance to your gutter outfall pop-up, (property line?), then it would hardly be worth it to join the two. Also, with an extended downpour, a single pop-up might not be able to handle the amount of water. Just dig the trench of your sump line over a few more feet, and add a pop-up for it. I have installed 3 of these pop-ups on our property, and freezing has never been a problem. A word to the wise, if your soil is clay like mine, MORE GRAVEL!

I have to wonder if this is a new law, or if it's just legal in some jurisdictions?

I know we had to go through the city to get the sump pump installation inspected, and what we did was to their code...but this was in the early 80's...things may have changed since then. oops!

 

[nerp]

Early 80s? yes. things have changed, bigtime. Stormwater management, baby.

 

[Red Squirrel]

Your AC has mice poop on it.

 

[StageLeft]

OK I've now "finished" one side, with two drains in there.

drain.jpg

This is where I was thinking of draining (where the trench ends in the pic, maybe 10-15 feet from the house, next to the shovel). I took the pic standing at the end of my property. I'm standing just in front of a ditch which is the natural path of water, and at the other end of my yard, to my left, is the huge storm drain. When I do the other side of the house I've already decided to trench across the entire yard to the drain (town inspector approved this) because the yard is so flat, but should I bother doing the same on this first side? I figure it's another three hours of digging and $40 in pipe and fixtures (I'm using nice pipe). Given where my trench ends now is still a good three feet from the bottom of the basement, I don't know if it's worth the effort to dig further, or if that significant incline is enough. Soil is quite thick, btw, and clay ater about the first foot.

 

[StageLeft]

!

 

[miketheidiot]

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Why not just plumb the sump pump output into your sewer drain somewhere in the basement?

I installed a couple of sump pumps when we lived in Utah for family members and we always just connected them to the sewer line.

this is a very bad idea, especially if you live somewhere with periodic heavy rains. What happens when you sewer backs up from heavy rains?

 

[runzwithsizorz]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
OK I've now "finished" one side, with two drains in there.

drain.jpg

This is where I was thinking of draining (where the trench ends in the pic, maybe 10-15 feet from the house, next to the shovel). I took the pic standing at the end of my property. I'm standing just in front of a ditch which is the natural path of water, and at the other end of my yard, to my left, is the huge storm drain. When I do the other side of the house I've already decided to trench across the entire yard to the drain (town inspector approved this) because the yard is so flat, but should I bother doing the same on this first side? I figure it's another three hours of digging and $40 in pipe and fixtures (I'm using nice pipe). Given where my trench ends now is still a good three feet from the bottom of the basement, I don't know if it's worth the effort to dig further, or if that significant incline is enough. Soil is quite thick, btw, and clay ater about the first foot.

I fails at the flat part here Skoorb. I take it there's a concave grade at/near your property line leading towards the storm drain to the LEFT right? How many downspouts on this pipe? The lay of the land/your property elevation, does not lend itself to your sump pump getting much of a workout, if at all. Have you seen it? My house is almost identical to yours, and in the 6 years I've been here, I don't think it has fired up once, neither has the house next door, (same elevation). However, the neighbor 2 doors up, whose house sits nearly level would drown without a pump, had I not run 300ft. of power cord over to him during a heavy storm/power outage, from my generator he would have, (hint).
That being said, and now with a better picture, I can see no reason why you couldn't splice your pump line onto your gutter outflow line. Do so with a 4" 45 degree elbow on your gutter line, you may have to undig/expose some of it to establish the *proper angle*, hint, lay assembled, but unglued pipe out on the ground before you dig, you ARE going glue it aren't you? Splice your pump line into it using a 4"x 1.5" reducing Y adapter. This angle will still be heading down hill and toward the storm drain. You do not have to make the entire trip, just to your property line. Do not secure the lid of your pop-up out flow, with a heavy downpour you WANT it to be blown off. This isn't rocket science here Skoorb, you'll do fine, probably not nearly as hard as opening a ball valve on your back patio to establish a full flow of water, hehehe.
Regards, RUNZ

 

[BoomerD]

Originally posted by: miketheidiot

Originally posted by: BoomerD
Why not just plumb the sump pump output into your sewer drain somewhere in the basement?

I installed a couple of sump pumps when we lived in Utah for family members and we always just connected them to the sewer line.

this is a very bad idea, especially if you live somewhere with periodic heavy rains. What happens when you sewer backs up from heavy rains?

check valves. As I already stated, these installs were done in accordance with the city regs at the time and inspected by city inspectors.

 

[StageLeft]

I fails at the flat part here Skoorb. I take it there's a concave grade at/near your property line leading towards the storm drain to the LEFT right?

That's right. Where that walkout basement starts it's a very gradual decline that goes back quite a distance. Everything in the pic is well graded.

You are right about my sump. I'd say it goes possibly as little as every few weeks or less. I honestly never really hear it, even with my 24/7 dehumidifier putting into its well. I have neighbors with yards that look exactly like mine in elevation and it seems hit or miss. Two houses up the hill the guy's sump runs all the damn time.

I have two drain pipes on each side of the house into the 4" PVC (will make a 4" line per side; I'd thought of joining but don't want to over-stress a single line). I am gluing all linkages so far with proper primer and cement.

As I'm only laying the pipe with a couple inches above it for grass, I know it's well above the frost line, so as my sump is now freezing is no concern (warm water shoots straight out and could not conceivably freeze), but I could see it becoming one with the gutters, since there is that final 90 degree raise up (even with a hole in the elbow it could still clog with a bunch of water freezing).

 

[runzwithsizorz]

I, myself have never had a problem with freezing, neither should you. Check the elbow from time to time, do you have leaf guards on your gutters? As a rule of thumb, never more than 3 downspouts per 4" drain.

 

[StageLeft]

I doubt any leaf guards at the top; there are no trees at the top of my house or anywhere within sight of it, so I'll be surprised if my gutters ever clog up!

 

[dullard]

Speaking of sump pumps, I need to get mine up to code. The pump in my house was connected directly to the sewer line (against code where I live). That illegal connection was probably done 18 years before I bought the house. Before I put my house on the market, I want to hook it up properly. PVC pipe up the wall to the ceiling, along the celing, and a short protrusion out under my deck to water my back yard (very steep hill from there will take all the water away).

I've looked up a couple of books in the local bookstore and they give conflicting information. Both said to add a check valve and to drill a pressure relief hole into the PVC (in case of a clogged pipe the pump doesn't break). The books differ in where to drill the hole. One book said to drill it before the check valve and the other after the check valve.

With the hole after the check valve, isn't the check valve useless (the water will just drain right out of the hole after the pump stops)? I just thought I'd check before doing all of this.

 

[Rubycon]

Check valves prevent a backwash of water coming back to the sump after the pump stops. If you have a sensitive level switch it can cause short cycling of the pump. If the pump is in an area that's prone to freezing a check valve is going to be a problem as the line above the valve can freeze hard rupturing the pipe or causing a blockage.

If you have a long run over 10 feet total the check valve should within a meter of the pump discharge. Many submersible pumps have a check valve built in.

Most centrifugal sump pumps can run with the discharge fully blocked. Drilling a small hole isn't going to help much and will just reduce capacity by that much as it will piss out when the pump runs! :laugh:

OP: draining downspout lines into a sump may not be a good idea if the sump pump is not connected to a source of power that can fail in a storm. That will make your basement flood quickly if the power gets cut.