should I go with a projector setup in the basement?

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
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im just starting finishing my basement and was originally thinking of just putting a good ol 65" DLP in there. But I already have a 46" LCD in the living room and want something different in the basement. So my other option is front projector, mounted on the ceiling.

My ceilings are lower than the regular 8' ceilings, so i dont know if it will be too low to mount the projector on the ceiling. It's a townhouse basement, so it's 16' wide by 30' long (not exactly sure on the length...could be longer)

This is just a thought in my head right now and I havent done any research on projectors. I've never seen a HD proj in action, and dont know how they compare to LCDs or Plasmas or RP DLPs in terms of image quality/brightness/etc. I've heard they look awesome in a dark room, and that isnt a problem for the basement, but how do they look with dimmed lights, or some ambient lighting?

Also do projector setups (good quality 1080p proj, screen, etc) run cheaper than say a 60" plasma?

as i said, this is just a thought right now, but I would like to research it more. I live in central NJ. Are there places where I can view HD projectors in action? Also any links anyone can provide, would be appreciated. If I am gonna go with a proj setup, I need to plan it out before I put the drywall up since I'd need to run all the cables where the proj will hang
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
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I'm on my third front projector and love it.

Having a light controlled room is probably the biggest issue people have for avoiding projectors. If you have a dark room (or a mostly dark room), you'll be in great shape for front projection.

Newer projectors have been getting better and better in brightness (and color accuracy in the brightest settings).
It's possible to have some ambient light and still enjoy things, although it's still best to have things as dark as possible.

You can get a solid 1080p projector for around $1500-$1600 or one that's quite good for around $2000-$2300.
There are also some entry level 1080p units that are right around $1000 if that's what you have in your budget.

I just got a Panasonic AE4000U. It and the Epson 8500UB are two very strong options in the $2000-$2300 range. They both have a lot of placement flexibility with strong zoom options and lens shift.

I have a room with 8' ceilings and I have room for a 102" 16:9 screen with plenty of room underneath for electronics and speakers.
If you don't need to stack a bunch of stuff under the screen, you shouldn't have any problem for screen size limitations and ceiling mounting with projectors that feature lens shift.

How far away is the seating going to be?

The other factor is with bulb replacement. Typically, bulbs are rated for 2000-4000 hours each and run from $200-$500 each, depending on the model.
If this is going to be for movie watching and the TV upstairs will be for more everyday usage, then you shouldn't be going through bulbs too quickly.

For doing a demo of front projection, try to see if there are some specialty AV stores in your area that have some set up in dedicated rooms. Due to the necessary lighting conditions, most stores can't set up an effective demo.
 
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sivart

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2000
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Yes, go for it. I did a room (already finished room) from empty to 100" setup with all new equipment (projector, receiver, speakers, furniture) for under $6K...that was 3 years ago. About 1,800 was the projector and screen and another 2,000 was the furniture.

It is worth it, especially if you can get 100" or larger. 16' wide should be perfect for a 100-120" setup.
 

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
21,205
165
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yoyo, you built your own screen, right? How long did it take and how complex was it (cant imagine it being too hard). How does it compare to pulldown screens that you can buy? IIRC screens can get pretty expensive. I'm a DIY kinda guy and would rather build my own if quality is the same.
 

Chapbass

Diamond Member
May 31, 2004
3,147
96
91
im just starting finishing my basement and was originally thinking of just putting a good ol 65" DLP in there. But I already have a 46" LCD in the living room and want something different in the basement. So my other option is front projector, mounted on the ceiling.

My ceilings are lower than the regular 8' ceilings, so i dont know if it will be too low to mount the projector on the ceiling. It's a townhouse basement, so it's 16' wide by 30' long (not exactly sure on the length...could be longer)

This is just a thought in my head right now and I havent done any research on projectors. I've never seen a HD proj in action, and dont know how they compare to LCDs or Plasmas or RP DLPs in terms of image quality/brightness/etc. I've heard they look awesome in a dark room, and that isnt a problem for the basement, but how do they look with dimmed lights, or some ambient lighting?

Also do projector setups (good quality 1080p proj, screen, etc) run cheaper than say a 60" plasma?

as i said, this is just a thought right now, but I would like to research it more. I live in central NJ. Are there places where I can view HD projectors in action? Also any links anyone can provide, would be appreciated. If I am gonna go with a proj setup, I need to plan it out before I put the drywall up since I'd need to run all the cables where the proj will hang


Do ittttttt. I use my Mits HC6500 in my family room at my apt, definitely has some light coming in. Not too bad in the daytime, shines beautifully at night..

The low ceiling height might be an issue. Try out the calculator at Projector central to see if you can find something that works for you.
 

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
21,205
165
106
Yes, go for it. I did a room (already finished room) from empty to 100" setup with all new equipment (projector, receiver, speakers, furniture) for under $6K...that was 3 years ago. About 1,800 was the projector and screen and another 2,000 was the furniture.

It is worth it, especially if you can get 100" or larger. 16' wide should be perfect for a 100-120" setup.

well i wouldnt have the entire 16' wall. It's a walkout basement and about 3-4' are taken up by the door on the left. I'll take some measurements tonight and sketch up a diagram
 

sivart

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2000
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well i wouldnt have the entire 16' wall. It's a walkout basement and about 3-4' are taken up by the door on the left. I'll take some measurements tonight and sketch up a diagram

My 100" is on a 12 foot wall and I have about 2 feet either side for my speakers, so you should be okay.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
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yoyo, you built your own screen, right? How long did it take and how complex was it (cant imagine it being too hard). How does it compare to pulldown screens that you can buy? IIRC screens can get pretty expensive. I'm a DIY kinda guy and would rather build my own if quality is the same.

Yes.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=3440

The basic screen itself was pretty easy to do. I'm not too handy (getting better) and this was my first real DIY project.

The border / masking system took a little more work, but I think it was worth it and it wasn't too bad.

I've only had a couple screens. I projected on a white wall first, which wasn't too bad. Eventually I had a 76" pull-down screen that came with an Infocus 4805 bundle that I got from Costco. I'm pleased with the blackout cloth screen that I have now. Maybe I'm one of the "blissfully ignorant" people who hasn't seen what a really expensive screen can do, but I'm very happy with the one I have now.

If I were to be making one now, I might consider doing a 2.4:1 screen instead since the AE4000U that I have now makes doing a constant image height setup a breeze.
 

sdifox

No Lifer
Sep 30, 2005
100,821
18,068
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Yes.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=3440

The basic screen itself was pretty easy to do. I'm not too handy (getting better) and this was my first real DIY project.

The border / masking system took a little more work, but I think it was worth it and it wasn't too bad.

I've only had a couple screens. I projected on a white wall first, which wasn't too bad. Eventually I had a 76" pull-down screen that came with an Infocus 4805 bundle that I got from Costco. I'm pleased with the blackout cloth screen that I have now. Maybe I'm one of the "blissfully ignorant" people who hasn't seen what a really expensive screen can do, but I'm very happy with the one I have now.

If I were to be making one now, I might consider doing a 2.4:1 screen instead since the AE4000U that I have now makes doing a constant image height setup a breeze.

WilsonArt Designer White seems to be a favorite too. I will get one soon.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
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Lots of options. :) There is a whole list of alternatives in the AVSforum link in the DIY screen thread.
 

Muadib

Lifer
May 30, 2000
18,127
912
126
In your part of the state, I'd recommend giving Woodbridge stereo a call. I haven't been there is some time, but they were great. http://www.woodbridgestereo.com/default.aspx

6ave might have a projector setup. They have 2 stores in your neck of the woods. There is one in Woodbridge on route 1, and one on route 18 in East Brunswick. The 2 stores by me have had projector setups in the past.

You didn't mention your budget, but odds are you will end up buying your projector sight unseen, so you must do your research!!!

As I'm sure you know, the more light you have, the worst your image is going to look. I've learned quite a while ago, that my definition of ambient lighting probably isn't the same as yours. It is for that reason, that once you decide on a projector, I recommend just using your wall for the first few days, and ordering some screen samples, so you can see what the differences are in your room.

Here's a site I think you should checkout:http://www.da-lite.com/products/selecting.php
 
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Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
21,205
165
106
im not too far from woodbridge. will definitely be checking the place out. right now i dont even have a budget. I need to do more research to see how expensive it will be. yoyo is saying ~2K for a good projector. Figure another 1-1.5K for the audio system. 1-2K for furniture. I'm already at 5K. This might have to be a summer project as I dont want to start spending too much at once. I'm already looking at 1-1.5K for finishing up the basement this winter.

what is your definition of ambient lighting? dimmable recessed lights? rope lights uplighting or downlighting a wall?
 

Aharami

Lifer
Aug 31, 2001
21,205
165
106
Yes.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=3440

The basic screen itself was pretty easy to do. I'm not too handy (getting better) and this was my first real DIY project.

The border / masking system took a little more work, but I think it was worth it and it wasn't too bad.

I've only had a couple screens. I projected on a white wall first, which wasn't too bad. Eventually I had a 76" pull-down screen that came with an Infocus 4805 bundle that I got from Costco. I'm pleased with the blackout cloth screen that I have now. Maybe I'm one of the "blissfully ignorant" people who hasn't seen what a really expensive screen can do, but I'm very happy with the one I have now.

If I were to be making one now, I might consider doing a 2.4:1 screen instead since the AE4000U that I have now makes doing a constant image height setup a breeze.

i see that you had a couple setup (4:3,16:9,etc) that you created with the border and masking panels. I'm a total noob at this, so this question might seem dumb, but what is the point of masking panels? Shouldn't the projector already be shooting an image in the aspect ratio depending on the source (2.35:1 for BRD and DVD, 16:9 for hdtv, 4:3 for sdtv, etc)? And Im assuming if you switch from watching a hd channel to a sd channel, you'd have to manually rearrange the panels? Sorry, total noob at this.
 

sivart

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2000
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Ambient lighting is any light in the room when you have all of the lights off.
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
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Just to put this in perspective, I saw a big improvement in
-black levels
-color accuracy
-brightness
-sharpness
Over my old projector that I just replaced. For $2000, I got a projector that performs quite well overall. I'm appreciating the improvements over my old projector since I had looked at the old one for several thousand hours and several things had started to bother me.

To a casual observer (or someone who isn't as picky about video quality), I don't think they would have noticed as much of a difference between an aging 720p projector from a few years ago vs. Panasonic's new top of the line projector.

Overall, even the $1000 projectors are going to be better looking that the $3000-$5000 projectors from several years ago. You're getting a lot of bang for your buck here since projector tech has gotten a lot better lately.

I would suspect that you'd be happy with just about any current generation projector you'd get.

If you're picky about color accuracy, black levels, contrast, etc.
Then it's going to make more sense to look at the more expensive units.

You also get more features as you move up in price.

Some of those involve placement flexibility (lens shift, zoom), while others are aimed at picture quality.

One of the things that I absolutely LOVE about my new projector is frame interpolation. I've been extremely bothered by the jerkiness / stuttering that happens in panning since movies are filmed at a frame rate that's too slow to capture motion effectively (24p). There's a lot of debate about features like this altering the intended "look" of filmmakers. I've considered both sides and I'm annoyed enough by the issue that I'd rather let technology take away some of the stutter.

Article on it:
http://www.projectorcentral.com/judder_24p.htm

I've been using Frame Creation Mode 2 on my projector for about 20 hours now. At first it seemed borderline "soap opera", but now I'm totally used to it and love it. With crappy frame interpolation technology, the "soap opera" effect means that the motion on the screen reminds people of what low budget "soap opera" tv shows look like on TV. Some people have described it as "hyper realistic" that takes away some of the "magic" of the way movies look. One person said that watching the Lord of the Rings on it made it look like they were watching a documentary on "the making of the Lord of the Rings" rather than the actual movie.

Anyway... there's debate about negative effects of it (both visually and destroying the directors intent), but it's a feature that's growing in popularity. I'm completely sold on it since I'm incredibly annoyed by stuttering motion. Maybe too many computer games growing up? :p

The $2000 range of LCD projector (AE4000U from Panasonic and the 8500UB from Epson) both have very good black levels and contrast compared to the lower cost projectors. Oh, I'm mentioning them since they're the ones that both have very good frame interpolation implementations.

About your masking system question....

(ask all the questions you want by the way)

Well...

First off, let me say that the blackest black a projector can give you is the color of the screen. Projectors can only add light to a surface, so if you want a very dark black in your picture, your wall/screen must appear dark to you when you have the room ready to go.

On top of that, projectors vary in their ability to go to black. They're getting much better at this, but on my old projector for example, if I tried to show a screen that was totally black, I'd get an image that was at best "dark gray". The LCDs in my old panasonic did their best to not let any light through, but they still let a lot through.

So... I started with a screen that was white... then made the room as dark as I could to make the white screen appear as dark as I could get it... then I turn the projector on that has a certain level of light coming through it even if I project a source image that is pure black.

That color on the screen is the blackest black I'm going to get in any image on my projected screen.

So, when I'm watching a movie that's not 16:9 aspect ratio, I'm going to have gray bars around it that are equivalent to the "black bars" you'd get on a regular TV. Since they are physically large, and your eyes have probably adjusted to a darkened room more... they might be distracting.

Having masking panels that are much, much darker than the original screen color (black velvet instead of white black-out cloth) and are physically structured to capture a lot of light makes the "black bars" appear to be true black.

Having the image framed on all sides by black makes the image appear to have more contrast. It also gives me nice clean edges around the frame. I have overscan disabled on my projector, and occasionally I get a DVD that has a little bit of crappy artifacting going on at one of the edges. By having the image slightly larger than the white area of the screen, I'm able to effectively crop the image just a few pixels on each side and get rid of any artifacts that may be on the disc at the edges.

So basically, the benefits are
- Better perceived contrast
- Not being distracted by gray bars visually
- Able to cut off just the edges of the video to hide any artifacts

That said, my new projector is a whole heck of a lot better at not adding extra light to a black source image. The blackest I can get is still the color of my white screen, but the new projector adds very very little light when it tries to go to true black vs. what my old one did. The distraction of "gray bars" would be minimal when watching a movie.

Still, the other two benefits are still valid in my case.

Along the lines of this topic, I'd also like to mention that I've read that painting your room a dark color can help quite a bit. Unfortunately, I've been in rented places for my entire projector history and haven't been inclined to paint a room a dark color only to have to paint it back to white when I move out a year or two later.

A dark room helps by not having light bouncing off the screen to then hit the wall and bounce off again. A dark colored wall will absorb a lot more light and that will help prevent getting a washed out image due to light reflections.
That said, I have a white room right now (although I have a boat load of black acoustic treatments in it now) and it's still a very good experience. I'd probably be able to get a slightly better black level and more contrast if I were to paint the walls a dark color.

Hmm.... I'd better get ready for work now :p

Sorry for what's probably too much info...
 

YOyoYOhowsDAjello

Moderator<br>A/V & Home Theater<br>Elite member
Aug 6, 2001
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And Im assuming if you switch from watching a hd channel to a sd channel, you'd have to manually rearrange the panels? Sorry, total noob at this.

Oh, I forgot this part.

Yes, if you made a manual system of panels, you'd have to take them down. I only watch movies on my projector, so it's not an issue for me.

If you were going to watch mixed aspect ratio material, you'd just leave the panels off.