Should i do this or not ?

Candymancan21

Senior member
Jun 8, 2009
278
3
81
I am at a dilema right now, my current system is fairly new only 8 months old and frankly it runs everything just fine cept for the video card and thats where this question comes into play.

Specs

E8400 CO @ 4.2ghz 1.296v (can reach 4300mhz stable but i prefer the lower voltage)
4GB DDR2-800 G.SKILL
ATI 4850 512mb
Asus P5Q-PRO
Antec 650w Trio TP

As you can see i have a fine system but the video card cant really handle some games i play i get 40ish fps on silent hunter 4 and 40ish fps on fallout3 and few other games. 40fps may seem fine to you guys but i dont like anything lower then 50 and i can see the differance in gameplay. The card is overclocked to the max 700/1050. I game with 1680x1050 and i prefer 4xAA 16xAF or at least 8xAF. For the future the 4850 isnt good enough and frankly the 512mb also shows stuttering when i increase AA in some games.

I have $558 exactly. I was thinking just buy the 4890 1gb i can get one for $200 and its a factory oc one. Now my brother's computer is pretty old and here is where my dilema comes into play. He claims he doesnt care about fps or graphics and he probably really means that, the games he plays for the most part he can play with maxed out because the graphics card isnt stressed at all so lowering graphics details doesnt increase fps at all. World of Warcraft/warhammer online and Command and Conquer 3 his fps starts taking a dive if i go above 1024x768 resolutions (cpu sucks)

His system is a

Opteron 165 duelcore S939 @ 2.6ghz (can reach 2.9ghz but stock hsf is kinda limited)
2gb Ram
8800GTS 640

I know his video card isnt even being used because if i increase AA/AF to the max fps doesnt even drop, the cpu is killing this system.


I could buy all this right now but im not sure if i should.

AMD X4 940 Phenom ll
4GB G,skill DDR2-1066
Gigabyte GA-MA790X UD4P
Asus 4890 OC 1GB

I would use this system myself because its a quadcore and overclocked i could reach the same potential as my e8400 gaming wise. I would give my brother my E8400 and 4850, which would probably set him up for a good 2+ years for what he plays because its way overkill for him. Now me on the otherhand, would this really be worth doing ? Or should i save my money? My mom is telling me to save my money because i upgrade computers to much and waste money. Its my money tho but i understand what she is saying.

Would you guys do this ? I can only do this today tho because newegg has special deal saving me like $50 and they end today. Next month i could buy a 955BE and DDR3 tho but TBH from what iv seen DDR3 doesnt do anything for AMD.

Sorry for a long post but i want to get all the information out there so you guys could suggest what i should do. I feal obligated to upgrade my brothers computer but he said he doesnt care and it runs fine but 25-30fps isnt fine to me. So i could just skip it and get the 4890 and save the $350 from buying the phenom. I dont really care about cheap upgrades like AMD 7750 or whatever they are called, they are basicly crappy X2's no faster then the opteron in terms of speed just clock speed and not by much. If i buy something it will be something worth buying.

 

Denithor

Diamond Member
Apr 11, 2004
6,300
23
81
Welcome to the forums!

What I would do:

Buy 4890 for your computer.
Put 4850 in your brother's computer.

See if that yields the improvements you want, on both sides.

If so, be happy you saved yourself $350.

If not, the special deals on cpus/mobos/etc run every month so don't feel pressured to make a purchase today - there will be just as good of deals tomorrow and next week if you look around a little. And prices decrease over time, they don't go up - waiting will net you better gear for the same cash.

If you do need to upgrade your CPU consider the X3 720 - fine gaming chip and much cheaper than the X4 lineup.

EDIT: You're spot on with your analysis of the Kuma 7750 chips - actually they are a dual core PhI chip - meaning they suck at performance and run hotter than the normal X2 chips.
 

Candymancan21

Senior member
Jun 8, 2009
278
3
81
Well the problem with giving him my 4850 is the 8800GTS he has now is being bottlenecked by the Opteron so he wouldnt get any performance. If i say play a game and its using 0XAA 0XAF, and i slowely raise it up to 2x then 4x 8x ect, the fps will not go down or up telling me his GPU is bottlenecked.

That computer was mine before the E8400 and when i upgraded to the E8400 i saw a like 200% fps increase. So its kinda like uhg i dunno should i or shouldnt i. I kinda also want to buy the Phenom just t have another computer to mess with "evil snicker" and because its a quad. I could buy a Q9550 or something but then my brother wouldnt get a upgrade and id be wasting money like that. If i get the Phenom he can have my computer.

I just dunno, originally i was thinking the X3 but for costs $139 for the 720 vs $189 for a quad the diff isnt much. The thing thats making me hesatate is the X4 in terms of gaming from benchmarks iv seen isnt any faster then my E8400 at least when they are both on stock. So besides the obvious benefits from 4 cores i wouldnt really be getting an "upgrade" so to say. The 4850 40fps in some game i suppose could last me for awhile and down the road i could use the $558 to get something better then whats out now. The problem is if anything new comes out it will be at prices i cant afford. So its kinda a lose/lose situation.

Would you personally buy the system i mentioned or skip it and wait ? I just get so antsy everytime i have money i have to spend it... You can probably see how trigger happy i sound right now. Im going crazy trying to decide "yes" or "no"
 

lopri

Elite Member
Jul 27, 2002
13,209
594
126
Another friendly welcome to a new member. It's good to see a thoughtful post from a young (at least it sounds like) member. We need some fresh blood in here. ;)

Let me start by saying that your CPU is one of the finest, if not the finest, CPU for gaming as of summer 2009. And you already wisely diagnosed the 'bottleneck' in your gaming experience. As good as HD 4850 may be, it can't make up for what it doesn't have - in this case extra memory. Go for a GeForce GTX 275/285 or a Radeon HD 4890. You'll have one of the fastest gaming systems money can buy.

Upgrading to a Phenom II (or any other quad-core CPU) will not help you with games, unfortunately. Not only Phenom II is slower than Wolfdale at the same clock frequency, but it'll not likely reach the same clock frequency to begin with. If it your intellectual curiosity that attracts you to quad-cores, then I'd say by all means go for it. But if your goal is as stated (gaming performance) then there is no faster CPU for gaming than what you currently have.

Now on the other system, I am a bit confused by your description because you stated:

1) FPS drops when resolution is raised beyond 1024x768
2) Changing visual quality (such as AA/AF) doesn't affect performance

1) is a GPU-bound situation and 2) is (typically) a CPU-bound situation. Having said that, games that your brother play are known to be hard on CPU so an upgrade might help - except that there isn't anything he can upgrade to. But there is one possible upgrade I could see for the system: add more memory. Adding 2x512MB or 2x1GB will give his system a bit more breathing room. And maybe improve cooling to get 2.80GHz out of the 165?

DDR3 does help AM3 CPUs, and that's what I'd get if I were to build a PII system from scratch today. The reason why you don't see improvement from DDR3 in reviews is because all benches are performed with PII's stock NB frequency (2.0GHz). It is not unfair for reviewers to run benches that way because they are only following AMD's spec. But if you get into overclocking you will definitely want to play with the integrated memory controller, and that's where you'll see the difference. When overclocked properly, DDR3 will be always faster than DDR2 for AM3 CPUs and depending on application the difference can be quite big.
 

Candymancan21

Senior member
Jun 8, 2009
278
3
81
No im not too young 22 years old, my brother is 15 so im quiet abit older then him. I have a JOB but its hard for me to save up money due to helping pay bills and stuff "reason why my mom said to save it"so the $560 i saved up was over the course of 3 months $20 here $20 there.

Yea the FPS doesnt drop when i use 0xAA vs 8xAA its wierd, but the fps drops if i go from 1024x768 to 1280x1024. I assume it is the CPU because his fps sucks at 1024x768 to start with. When i had that computer i couldnt even play warhammer online it was so bad. You are right there is nothing he can upgrade too, so if were to just buy him a cheap computer to save me money like say the X3 it just doesnt sound like a wise upgrade when the X4 isnt much more. If i get the X4 tho i would want to use it due to the 4 cores so i would give him my system.

You are right on my cpu tho at 4.2 or 4.3ghz if i push it i doubt a phenom x4 would be able to keep up with me. I can almost do 4.4ghz stable, iv gotten it stable up to 1+ hour on orthos at 4.4ghz. I guess the smart thing would be just get the 4890 save my $350 for later and later i will have more money and do a real upgrade then. I just feal sorry for him you know lol. He said he doesnt give a hoot tho so i guess it doesnt matter. You are right again on the quad curiosity tho iv never had one and wouldnt mind actually having one. I just couldnt get the DDR3 phenom because of costs right now anyway.
 

Candymancan21

Senior member
Jun 8, 2009
278
3
81
lopri: You are right man iv decited im just going to buy the 4890 and skip the 940 Phenom. I looked at Anandtech's review again and the E8500 on gaming was on top of almost every benchmark even over the I7 at least on Fallout 3 and stuff not overclocked. So the 940 i guess would be a bad choice. Even if it does allow my brother to have a good system. I should probabably wait for another 8 months and see what is it out then and then make a decision.

Ordering the Sapphire 4890 OC right now.
 

deimos3428

Senior member
Mar 6, 2009
697
0
0
Good choice. You can even play with CF if you want -- the 4890 will drop waaay down to meet the overclocked 4850, but it'll still perform better than the single 4890 for some things. Best of both worlds.
 

Candymancan21

Senior member
Jun 8, 2009
278
3
81
Yea i was thinking about that just now, im not going put the 4850 in my brothers computer because iv tried it before and it didnt help his fps so im not gonna bother with drivers and stuff. I could sell the 8800GTS or 4850 tho, but i could crossfire it.

I might try the crossfire just to peak at what its like but i doubt ill ever use it because of the 512mb of the 4850. You know whats funny ? I just checked the order and it gone through and while looking at the card on newegg they just now raised the price $30 like 1 hour after i ordered it. Glad i got it when it i did, it was $40 off normal price and had a $20 promo code and a $15 rebate, so only $200 or $185 ar for a factory overclocked 4890 which is cheaper then the normal 4890. Now its back to $240 heh

Btw i have a question are you able to change the fan speed on the 4890 on ati's CCC like i am my 4850 ?



edit: Could someone tell me how do i make a URL with text in it. I forgot how to do it, isnt it something like [url= then the link ? But what else
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,226
9,990
126
Originally posted by: Candymancan21
I just feal sorry for him you know lol. He said he doesnt give a hoot tho so i guess it doesnt matter.
I think that you made the right decision. You have the upgrade bug bad, I can tell. Even wanting to upgrade your brother's rig, even though he doesn't seem to want/need that.

If he's happy with his current rig, so be it. Technology is a very poor investment, so purchasing a new rig when you don't need one is just going to be a waste of money.

I would save my money, and wait for the Core i5 chips later on this year or early next year. Wait for the gaming benchmarks on those rigs.

 

Alienwho

Diamond Member
Apr 22, 2001
6,766
0
76
As a stockholder in both AMD and Intel I say upgrade away! You should go ahead and buy your brother a new CPU as a matter of fact!

As a guy with common sense I say ARE YOU CRAZY? Don't upgrade, you have a great computer already. It's not worth upgrading until another computer generation has passed. Save your money, move out of your moms house and go to college. You only have the upgrade bug because you have so much free time.
 

z1ggy

Lifer
May 17, 2008
10,004
63
91
Hey!! I have an upgrade bug too and I work full time as an EE and still go to college :(
 

Candymancan21

Senior member
Jun 8, 2009
278
3
81
Originally posted by: Alienwho
As a stockholder in both AMD and Intel I say upgrade away! You should go ahead and buy your brother a new CPU as a matter of fact!

As a guy with common sense I say ARE YOU CRAZY? Don't upgrade, you have a great computer already. It's not worth upgrading until another computer generation has passed. Save your money, move out of your moms house and go to college. You only have the upgrade bug because you have so much free time.


I dont think some of you get what i was trying to do. I wasnt trying to upgrade so to speak my computer, i was trying to build myself another equal computer and give my brother mine. I didnt think it was worth building him one sepretly when anything i build would most likely be a tripple or quad you get it ? Iv had this "upgrade" bug as you call it since i was 14 years old and bought my first hardware

Whats wrong with living with my mom and brother ? It saves me money on rent and i dont have to work 2 or 3 Jobs just to pay a $900 apartment rent not including utilities, and who says im not already in college ? You ever heard of online scooling ? Im going to the University of Arizona. Computer Science http://www.cs.arizona.edu/

Thanks for your concern tho.....
 

yh125d

Diamond Member
Dec 23, 2006
6,907
0
76
Take a gander at this...


ASUS M4A78 Plus/Phenom II X3 720 combo at newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/...ItemList=Combo.198673) - $209
4GB DDR-2 (take your pick) - $45
4890 1gb - $200


Give the Asus/PHII combo to your brother, and the DDR, take the 4890 for yourself and give him the 4850. This will set him up with a good tri-core which will be loads faster than that opty, and fast enough to keep up with the 4850. He will also get a modern motherboard with modern memory. You will still have the same system except for GPU, but to be honest theres really no reason to upgrade from an e8400 thats stable at 4.2gHz. That computer is gonna be lightning fast at everything

Also, you could just get the mobo/ram/cpu now to give your brother. Give him a couple weeks with that setup and the 8800 to see if he even needs a gpu upgrade. If he does, go ahead with the plan and get a 4890 and pass yours down (by this time in a few weeks prices will be lowered by ATI as well). If even with the new setup you two are happy with the card he has, you can (instead of getting the 4890) get a second 4850 for xfire, and have a faster setup than the 4890 would be. Actually, now that I think about it you could buy two 4850s instead of a 4890. two for you and one for him
 

Candymancan21

Senior member
Jun 8, 2009
278
3
81
Originally posted by: yh125d
Take a gander at this...


ASUS M4A78 Plus/Phenom II X3 720 combo at newegg (http://www.newegg.com/Product/...ItemList=Combo.198673) - $209
4GB DDR-2 (take your pick) - $45
4890 1gb - $200


Give the Asus/PHII combo to your brother, and the DDR, take the 4890 for yourself and give him the 4850. This will set him up with a good tri-core which will be loads faster than that opty, and fast enough to keep up with the 4850. He will also get a modern motherboard with modern memory. You will still have the same system except for GPU, but to be honest theres really no reason to upgrade from an e8400 thats stable at 4.2gHz. That computer is gonna be lightning fast at everything

Also, you could just get the mobo/ram/cpu now to give your brother. Give him a couple weeks with that setup and the 8800 to see if he even needs a gpu upgrade. If he does, go ahead with the plan and get a 4890 and pass yours down (by this time in a few weeks prices will be lowered by ATI as well). If even with the new setup you two are happy with the card he has, you can (instead of getting the 4890) get a second 4850 for xfire, and have a faster setup than the 4890 would be. Actually, now that I think about it you could buy two 4850s instead of a 4890. two for you and one for him


The X3 is what i was originally was thinking of, i already bought the 4890 tho itll be here tomarow. I didnt want to go to 4850 CF becase of the 512mb my card has, it already shows stuttering when AA is increased in certain games. Lack of memory. Im going to sell the 8800 i think. Because right now im going to have a extra card laying on my desk. Or i could sell the 4850 because its worth a little more.

Thanks for all your suggestions guys it really helps out when you become scatter brained lol
 

Golgatha

Lifer
Jul 18, 2003
12,639
1,481
126
Originally posted by: z1ggy
Hey!! I have an upgrade bug too and I work full time as an EE and still go to college :(

I get bitten often too. I have two young boys and a full time job.
 

VirtualLarry

No Lifer
Aug 25, 2001
56,226
9,990
126
Is it bad when you start planning to build new rigs, even before you've really used your current rigs, just because you find a hot deal on a part, and want to build a new rig around it?

I'm going to have something like 11 computers in my small apt when I'm done. :(
Good for DC, I guess, but bad for the electric bill.

Edit: Two DFI X48 boards, with Q6600s, two Gigabyte X48 boards, with Q9400s (hopefully I can get all of my quad-cores to 3.6Ghz), two Gigabyte P35 boards with E2140s @ 3.2Ghz, an AMD64 3800+ single-core micro-ATX on NV6150, an E2200 (stock) on a 865G, an AMD64 BE-2400 on a 780G, and my planned storage server, a Norco 4020 case with 21 HDs, a Foxconn G31 ATX board, and an E5200. Ok, that's 10 computers, don't know how I figured 11. I sold two PCs recently too. Oh yes, I own a P4/845P board, that I'm loaning out to someone right now too.