Should fuel economy standards be raised? POLL

2cpuminimum

Senior member
Jun 1, 2005
578
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0
Background reading:
http://www.40mpg.org/

Vehicle weight is not correlated with safety:
http://www.citizen.org/autosafety/fuelecon/nhtsacafe/articles.cfm?ID=8264
http://www.aceee.org/pubs/t013.htm

example of a ~100mpg car: http://www.indiacar.com/index2.asp?page...w.indiacar.com/infobank/ntech_audi.htm

Also the toyota eco spirit three:
http://www.carpages.co.uk/toyota/toyota...7_10_02.asp?switched=on&echo=708472472

It seems that it is no great feat to design a diesel/electric hybrid that would get greater than 100mpg, yet no one is taking them to market yet. What will it take to bring these to dealerships? Why do foreign automakers refrain from making biodiesel and e85 vehicles, while US automakers refrain from making efficient vehicles?
So post your favorite high mpg vehicle here.
 
Mar 19, 2003
18,289
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I personally don't care...I won't be in a position to buy a new car any time in the even remotely near future...so it wouldn't affect me either way.
 

klah

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2002
7,070
1
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Originally posted by: SynthDude2001
I personally don't care...I won't be in a position to buy a new car any time in the even remotely near future...so it wouldn't affect me either way.

Sending $$Billions every year to fascist dictators in the Middle East and South America affects all of us, that is why CIA director Woolsey is involved with that org.
 
Mar 19, 2003
18,289
2
71
Originally posted by: klah
Originally posted by: SynthDude2001
I personally don't care...I won't be in a position to buy a new car any time in the even remotely near future...so it wouldn't affect me either way.

Sending $$Billions every year to fascist dictators in the Middle East and South America affects all of us, that is why CIA director Woolsey is involved with that org.

Fine, raise the standards then...I'd still be driving the same car though :p
 

2cpuminimum

Senior member
Jun 1, 2005
578
0
0
If they raised the standards now, then by the time you could afford to replace your car, you could get one with decent mileage used. As opposed to the used market being flooded with poor mileage suv's as it is now.
 

cavemanmoron

Lifer
Mar 13, 2001
13,664
28
91
Why not put a solar collector on the roof of an electric/hybrid car,to recharge the batteries,while I am at work for 8 hours?
 

2cpuminimum

Senior member
Jun 1, 2005
578
0
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Because the average lifetime of solar panels=30years and the average life of a car=10 years, this would be a waste of solar panels unless they were easily salvageable and reused at the end of life of the vehicle. Of course it would make sense to include this as a luxury item for extended range.
 

loic2003

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2003
3,844
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Yes, in america.

Here in europe we have smaller, economical cars, we have joined the kyoto agreement and there's lots of tax on fuel which encourages people to buy smaller cars and save energy. America still refuses to join the agreement even though they push out 1/4 of the world's pollution. Cars also commonly have much larger capacity engines.

Politicans in the US aren't up for encouraging these environmental issues as it'd be political suicide (bad for their career) and it goes against the american way to have smaller, more conservative lifestyles. I don't see anything changing dramatically anytime soon.
 

SearchMaster

Diamond Member
Jun 6, 2002
7,791
114
106
Originally posted by: loic2003
Yes, in america.

Here in europe we have smaller, economical cars, we have joined the kyoto agreement and there's lots of tax on fuel which encourages people to buy smaller cars and save energy. America still refuses to join the agreement even though they push out 1/4 of the world's pollution. Cars also commonly have much larger capacity engines.

Politicans in the US aren't up for encouraging these environmental issues as it'd be political suicide (bad for their career) and it goes against the american way to have smaller, more conservative lifestyles. I don't see anything changing dramatically anytime soon.
America is very much a free market society, and the rising gas prices are having an effect on the automotive economy. SUVs are going out of fashion, and smaller more efficient cars are becoming the rage (see Toyota Prius).
 

Kelemvor

Lifer
May 23, 2002
16,928
8
81
I just wish they'd use test to come up with the average MPG that were anywhere near real driving conditions and not some guy driving around a track or on an indoor spinner. And of course MPG ratings should go up every year. Technology should be continuously advancing. They can go fast, look neater, have disappearing seats, etc... but they still get crappy gas mileage.
 

psteng19

Diamond Member
Dec 9, 2000
5,953
0
0
Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
I just wish they'd use test to come up with the average MPG that were anywhere near real driving conditions and not some guy driving around a track or on an indoor spinner. And of course MPG ratings should go up every year. Technology should be continuously advancing. They can go fast, look neater, have disappearing seats, etc... but they still get crappy gas mileage.

Gas mileage won't increase if cars get bigger engines and more weight/larger chassis generation after generation.
 

shilala

Lifer
Oct 5, 2004
11,437
1
76
Originally posted by: loic2003
Yes, in america.

Here in europe we have smaller, economical cars, we have joined the kyoto agreement and there's lots of tax on fuel which encourages people to buy smaller cars and save energy. America still refuses to join the agreement even though they push out 1/4 of the world's pollution. Cars also commonly have much larger capacity engines.

Politicans in the US aren't up for encouraging these environmental issues as it'd be political suicide (bad for their career) and it goes against the american way to have smaller, more conservative lifestyles. I don't see anything changing dramatically anytime soon.
:music:America, fvck yeah!!!:music:
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
25,637
4,152
126
Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
I just wish they'd use test to come up with the average MPG that were anywhere near real driving conditions and not some guy driving around a track or on an indoor spinner.
Actually I think the gas mileage on the car stickers is done even worse than that. They use a formula without actual testing. If the formula is within 5 MPG of the actual tests, they use the formula instead of the actual test. If not, then they adjust the formula results to be within 5 MPG of the actual test.

There is a push to change the formula, since it is working less and less with newer types of vehicles. I say, why not use the actual test results? :confused:

Back to the original topic. Yes they should be increased in my opinion. Fuel consumption (and conversely pollutant emmision) affects us all. Thus it is the governments duty to protect us. Although, I would do a slow gradual increase in MPG. How about 0.5 MPG per year.

In reality, though, I'd rather see a price incentive rather than a forced MPG number. I'd like to see a new federal tax added to all new vehicle sales which is equal to 3 years of gas if that vehicle was used with the current average usage. Then take that money collected and split it evenly as a rebate to all car consumers. The net effect is that all vehicles with less than the average MPG cost more, and vehicles with higher than the average MPG cost less (average vehicles are unaffected). Free markets would then raise average MPG for us without a set federal MPG requirement. It will never happen though. Just my own dream.
 

Linflas

Lifer
Jan 30, 2001
15,395
78
91

mercanucaribe

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
9,763
1
0
Ummm... Where's the option for "40mpg is too high". I don't understand how it's either "40mpg" or "the government has no business". What is wrong with you?
 

FoBoT

No Lifer
Apr 30, 2001
63,084
14
81
fobot.com
do you know the definition of "standards " ?

An acknowledged measure of comparison for quantitative or qualitative value; a criterion. b. An object that under specified conditions defines, represents, or records the magnitude of a unit.
A degree or level of requirement, excellence, or attainment.

so what does that have to do with vehicles in a free market system?

car makers can make whatever they can sell. let the market drive the "standards". if more than 13 tree huggers agreed with this garbage, then it would be reflected in vehicle sales
 

Vich

Platinum Member
Apr 11, 2000
2,849
1
0
It would be great to increase fuel efficiency. However, no one really likes little tin can cars that cant go over 75mph. What we need is a new fuel source that can get alot of HP and mileage!

<-- wishes.

-Rich
 

Phoenix86

Lifer
May 21, 2003
14,644
10
81
Market > Gov't.

SUV sales are declining Hybrids are up. I don't see a need for government action since the desired result is already happening.
 

klah

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2002
7,070
1
0
Originally posted by: 2cpuminimum
A majority of americans are in favor of increasing standards, so it is questionable as to whether supporting this change would be harmful politically.

Have you seen the shape GM and Ford are in? 80% of their profits are from SUVs and Pickups(source). Higher CAFE = Lower SUV sales = GM/Ford Chapter 11. Most of those jobs are in MI/OH/IN and the last time a president was elected without winning one of those states was not during my lifetime.






 

BigJ

Lifer
Nov 18, 2001
21,330
1
81
Originally posted by: loic2003
Yes, in america.

Here in europe we have smaller, economical cars, we have joined the kyoto agreement and there's lots of tax on fuel which encourages people to buy smaller cars and save energy. America still refuses to join the agreement even though they push out 1/4 of the world's pollution. Cars also commonly have much larger capacity engines.

Politicans in the US aren't up for encouraging these environmental issues as it'd be political suicide (bad for their career) and it goes against the american way to have smaller, more conservative lifestyles. I don't see anything changing dramatically anytime soon.

Don't fault us for not joining the Kyoto Agreement. It's a sh!tty plan, with unrealistic goals, even for the countries that agreed to it. Russia, for example, agreed to it and has no chance or want to actually try to meet its goals. It's all political BS.
 

Kelemvor

Lifer
May 23, 2002
16,928
8
81
Originally posted by: psteng19
Originally posted by: FrankyJunior
I just wish they'd use test to come up with the average MPG that were anywhere near real driving conditions and not some guy driving around a track or on an indoor spinner. And of course MPG ratings should go up every year. Technology should be continuously advancing. They can go fast, look neater, have disappearing seats, etc... but they still get crappy gas mileage.

Gas mileage won't increase if cars get bigger engines and more weight/larger chassis generation after generation.

That's what I mean. Instead of just making the bigger and faster they should make them lighter and more efficient. But then you end up with a Metro which will just get crushed if hit by an SUV. So there's also the safety issue that can't be left out.

But really, who needs to go from 0-60 in 6 seconds on their way to work. That's what On-Ramps are for. :)
 

klah

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2002
7,070
1
0
Originally posted by: BigJ

Don't fault us for not joining the Kyoto Agreement. It's a sh!tty plan, with unrealistic goals, even for the countries that agreed to it. Russia, for example, agreed to it and has no chance or want to actually try to meet its goals. It's all political BS.

Russia and Germany are allowed to increase CO2 emmissions under Kyoto. The baseline is 1990 which includes thousands of soviet factories that closed with the fall of the USSR in 1991.