Should Democrats take Manchin's small ball deal?

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Dec 10, 2005
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Yep. We've had his verbal before and he backed out.

If it's true, I'm wondering if Joe is reading tea leaves here.
If I recall, it seems like unlike other times, this time Manchin is spearheading the announcement of the deal, instead of others announcing they reached a deal with him.

Still leaving room for disappointment, but hopeful something will pass.
 

Paratus

Lifer
Jun 4, 2004
15,817
11,303
146
For those of us not paying attention can someone sum up how they managed to get potentially get this passed?
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
69,641
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Did somebody find photos of Manchin with goats?
You just have to do a search on the internet for pictures of goats. I leave the rest up to your imagination. But no matter which you pick to be Manchin you won't be far wrong. Look for one with a goat hair suit and direct deposit into his savings account from the coal and pharmaceuticals.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
41,888
23,221
136
For those of us not paying attention can someone sum up how they managed to get potentially get this passed?
Apparently Ds got Larry Summers to phone Manchin and explain, presumably very very slowly, that the deficit reducing package he had crafted with Schumer was in fact non-inflationary. It is comical but that's apparently what it took.

Everybody in the know (and this was not many people) also waited for the GOP to pass the CHIPS+ bill which Mitch had threatened if reconciliation was still on the table. It is no coincidence that Manchin announces the deal hours after CHIPS passes having been rather annoyed at the threat.
 
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Fenixgoon

Lifer
Jun 30, 2003
30,028
7,200
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Exactly.
That IF is a freaking mount Everest. Plans to scale it are one thing. Commitment and accomplishment is quite another.
Manchin only proves himself if he follows through.
Considering how many times he's done the Lucy/Charlie Brown football gag...
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
20,295
9,931
136
So .. Manchin is voting with his wallet right?
Why not bribe him? Give his company exclusive rights to coal mining in the US in exchange for, well, everything?
I am just going to assume this is what happened. Maybe there is fight in the underdog after all.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
15,078
11,896
136
I saw some commentary on the news, but now cannot recall which station, which said that Schumer got McConnell to support the chips bill by assuring him that reconciliation was dead for this year. Then made this deal with Manchin that surprised everyone. And that now McConnell is so pissed, he is lobbying House repugs to vote against the chips bill.

The story also said that progressives had initially opposed the chips bill (Sanders voted against it) as a corporate giveaway, but now are supporting it because they are happy with this new bill. If so, then they don't need repug support in the House to pass the chips bill. So it may be that the dems have successfully played some hardball here.

However, neither bill has passed yet. We still don't know how Sinema will react to the reconciliation bill.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
41,888
23,221
136
I saw some commentary on the news, but now cannot recall which station, which said that Schumer got McConnell to support the chips bill by assuring him that reconciliation was dead for this year. Then made this deal with Manchin that surprised everyone. And that now McConnell is so pissed, he is lobbying House repugs to vote against the chips bill.

The story also said that progressives had initially opposed the chips bill (Sanders voted against it) as a corporate giveaway, but now are supporting it because they are happy with this new bill. If so, then they don't need repug support in the House to pass the chips bill. So it may be that the dems have successfully played some hardball here.

However, neither bill has passed yet. We still don't know how Sinema will react to the reconciliation bill.
The Republicans got so mad they voted against medical care for veterans in a truly self defeating display of petulance.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
77,816
35,892
136
I saw some commentary on the news, but now cannot recall which station, which said that Schumer got McConnell to support the chips bill by assuring him that reconciliation was dead for this year. Then made this deal with Manchin that surprised everyone. And that now McConnell is so pissed, he is lobbying House repugs to vote against the chips bill.

The story also said that progressives had initially opposed the chips bill (Sanders voted against it) as a corporate giveaway, but now are supporting it because they are happy with this new bill. If so, then they don't need repug support in the House to pass the chips bill. So it may be that the dems have successfully played some hardball here.

However, neither bill has passed yet. We still don't know how Sinema will react to the reconciliation bill.
I do wonder if Sinema will try to sabotage it - it would get her a lot of attention which seems to be what she's primarily after.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
15,078
11,896
136
I do wonder if Sinema will try to sabotage it - it would get her a lot of attention which seems to be what she's primarily after.
Yes that could be. What we know of her past positions is that she supports clean energy legislation but doesn't support a corporate tax increase, or allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices. Both of which are needed to fund the bill. And if they can't fund it, Manchin will drop support.
 

dullard

Elite Member
May 21, 2001
24,180
2,401
126
I'm quite interested in seeing if this bill passes or not.

I am on the fence about installing solar panels on my house. I have the perfect roof for it, but my electricity rates are so low that it just doesn't quite make financial sense. There is a 26% federal tax credit and everything needs to be installed by Dec 31, 2022 to get that credit (the credit drops to a value that makes this a bad idea on Jan 1, 2023). Thus, I realistically have about a month to get the panel installation going if I want it installed this year. Looks like this compromise has upped the federal credit to 30% this year and that 26% lasts until the end of next year. That change, while small, just barely puts the solar panels into the good idea column.
 
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K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
41,888
23,221
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I do wonder if Sinema will try to sabotage it - it would get her a lot of attention which seems to be what she's primarily after.
Except for maybe the carried interest component most analysis I've seen indicates there is not a lot for her to complain about.

If she sinks this she'll be hit with megaton range political nukes. This is I think more heat than she's interested in.
 

K1052

Lifer
Aug 21, 2003
41,888
23,221
136
Yes that could be. What we know of her past positions is that she supports clean energy legislation but doesn't support a corporate tax increase, or allowing Medicare to negotiate drug prices. Both of which are needed to fund the bill. And if they can't fund it, Manchin will drop support.
She previously ok'd a 15% min corp tax and a package of drug pricing. As long as the bill conforms to that objections should be minimal but we'll see.
 

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
15,078
11,896
136
She previously ok'd a 15% min corp tax and a package of drug pricing. As long as the bill conforms to that objections should be minimal but we'll see.
Wasn't aware of that. If so, then maybe she gets on board. Very excited about this bill.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
20,295
9,931
136
I saw some commentary on the news, but now cannot recall which station, which said that Schumer got McConnell to support the chips bill by assuring him that reconciliation was dead for this year. Then made this deal with Manchin that surprised everyone. And that now McConnell is so pissed, he is lobbying House repugs to vote against the chips bill.

The story also said that progressives had initially opposed the chips bill (Sanders voted against it) as a corporate giveaway, but now are supporting it because they are happy with this new bill. If so, then they don't need repug support in the House to pass the chips bill. So it may be that the dems have successfully played some hardball here.

However, neither bill has passed yet. We still don't know how Sinema will react to the reconciliation bill.
Schumer out-turtled the turtle? Color me pleasantly surprised.
 
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kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
23,110
23,764
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Some bill. I just read the part about electric vehicle subsidies, wow. The incentive for producers and consumers both could really turn things around sounds like.

Now I too am wondering, what happened? The Manchin family has ripping people off in their DNA. Joe himself loves coal, is thoroughly in the pocket of the energy lobby. Someone get caught smoking hog in a Maserati? Or is this him trying to gain back some good will after helping Moscow Mitch fuck over the US and the planet, because he knows it's all meaningless when Sinema jumps up for some more limelight?

I struggle with believing it's merely goodwill and some heatwaves that we can thank for this change in attitude. Will reserve my applause for when it's done, and not another failure and blatant FU to the American people.

 

repoman0

Diamond Member
Jun 17, 2010
4,005
2,622
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Sounds like a big deal if it passes. I've been thinking about adding more panels and a battery backup on to my rooftop solar, as well as replacing my heat pump condenser with a bigger one and adding a couple more wall units .. wasn't expecting any help with that from the feds but makes it all a no-brainer if it's real.

I read that the EV credits as currently planned subsidize SUVs and pickups more than sedans and coupes, which is stupid. Big dumb vehicles are still wasteful and unnecessary EV or not, and make driving worse for everyone else. Oh well, still a net win.
 

cytg111

Lifer
Mar 17, 2008
20,295
9,931
136
Sounds like a big deal if it passes. I've been thinking about adding more panels and a battery backup on to my rooftop solar, as well as replacing my heat pump condenser with a bigger one and adding a couple more wall units .. wasn't expecting any help with that from the feds but makes it all a no-brainer if it's real.

I read that the EV credits as currently planned subsidize SUVs and pickups more than sedans and coupes, which is stupid. Big dumb vehicles are still wasteful and unnecessary EV or not, and make driving worse for everyone else. Oh well, still a net win.
Yea but if the cultural thing does not factor into your equation you're probably coming up with a subpar formula.
 

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