Should Canada indict Bush?

GreatBarracuda

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
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Should Canada indict Bush?

THOMAS WALKOM

When U.S. President George W. Bush arrives in Ottawa ? probably later this year ? should he be welcomed? Or should he be charged with war crimes?

It's an interesting question. On the face of it, Bush seems a perfect candidate for prosecution under Canada's Crimes against Humanity and War Crimes Act.

This act was passed in 2000 to bring Canada's ineffectual laws in line with the rules of the new International Criminal Court. While never tested, it lays out sweeping categories under which a foreign leader like Bush could face arrest.

In particular, it holds that anyone who commits a war crime, even outside Canada, may be prosecuted by our courts. What is a war crime? According to the statute, it is any conduct defined as such by "customary international law" or by conventions that Canada has adopted.

War crimes also specifically include any breach of the 1949 Geneva Conventions, such as torture, degradation, wilfully depriving prisoners of war of their rights "to a fair and regular trial," launching attacks "in the knowledge that such attacks will cause incidental loss of life or injury to civilians" and deportation of persons from an area under occupation.

Outside of one well-publicized (and quickly squelched) attempt in Belgium, no one has tried to formally indict Bush. But both Oxfam International and the U.S. group Human Rights Watch have warned that some of the actions undertaken by the U.S. and its allies, particularly in Iraq, may fall under the war crime rubric.

The case for the prosecution looks quite promising. First, there is the fact of the Iraq war itself. After 1945, Allied tribunals in Nuremberg and Tokyo ? in an astonishing precedent ? ruled that states no longer had the unfettered right to invade other countries and that leaders who started such conflicts could be tried for waging illegal war.

Concurrently, the new United Nations outlawed all aggressive wars except those authorized by its Security Council.

Today, a strong case could be made that Bush violated the Nuremberg principles by invading Iraq. Indeed, U.N. Secretary-General Kofi Annan has already labelled that war illegal in terms of the U.N. Charter.

Second, there is the manner in which the U.S. conducted this war.

The mistreatment of prisoners at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison is a clear contravention of the Geneva Accord. The U.S. is also deporting selected prisoners to camps outside of Iraq (another contravention). U.S. press reports also talk of shadowy prisons in Jordan run by the CIA, where suspects are routinely tortured. And the estimated civilian death toll of 100,000 may well contravene the Geneva Accords prohibition against the use of excessive force.

Canada's war crimes law specifically permits prosecution not only of those who carry out such crimes but of the military and political superiors who allow them to happen.

What has emerged since Abu Ghraib shows that officials at the highest levels of the Bush administration permitted and even encouraged the use of torture.

Given that Bush, as he likes to remind everyone, is the U.S. military's commander-in-chief, it is hard to argue he bears no responsibility.

Then there is Guantanamo Bay. The U.S. says detainees there do not fall under the Geneva accords. That's an old argument.

In 1946, Japanese defendants explained their mistreatment of prisoners of war by noting that their country had never signed any of the Geneva Conventions. The Japanese were convicted anyway.

Oddly enough, Canada may be one of the few places where someone like Bush could be brought to justice. Impeachment in the U.S. is most unlikely. And, at Bush's insistence, the new international criminal court has no jurisdiction over any American.

But a Canadian war crimes charge, too, would face many hurdles. Bush was furious last year when Belgians launched a war crimes suit in their country against him ? so furious that Belgium not only backed down under U.S. threats but changed its law to prevent further recurrences.

As well, according to a foreign affairs spokesperson, visiting heads of state are immune from prosecution when in Canada on official business. If Ottawa wanted to act, it would have to wait until Bush was out of office ? or hope to catch him when he comes up here to fish.

And, of course, Canada's government would have to want to act. War crimes prosecutions are political decisions that must be authorized by the federal attorney-general.

Still, Prime Minister Paul Martin has staked out his strong opposition to war crimes. This was his focus in a September address to the U.N. General Assembly.

There, Martin was talking specifically about war crimes committed by militiamen in far-off Sudan. But as my friends on the Star's editorial board noted in one of their strong defences of concerted international action against war crimes, the rule must be, "One law for all."

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He has broken every rule in the book, it's about time people of the "free world" enforce some rules on him. None of you can argue with the above facts. According to international law (UN), he has conducted an illegal war and should be held accountable for it.
 

daveshel

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
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Confine him to his compound in Crawford and if he leaves the country, don't let him return.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
53,907
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I guess Canada should come on down and get him.

We've got you when the tank runs out of gas in Philadelphia.;)
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
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While your at it indict Annan and his chronies at the debunk governmental organization otherwise known as the UN.
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
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Thats right my friend. When the UN refuses to hand over key documents in the Oil for Food Embargo as well as finding any resolute solutions to the Congo while a PMO practically does the job for them this is just a sad state of an organization.
 

conjur

No Lifer
Jun 7, 2001
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Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Thats right my friend. When the UN refuses to hand over key documents in the Oil for Food Embargo as well as finding any resolute solutions to the Congo while a PMO practically does the job for them this is just a sad state of an organization.
And this has what to do with the topic of this thread? And, you still didn't explain by what you meant by "debunk governmental organization".
 

Czar

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
28,510
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Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Thats right my friend. When the UN refuses to hand over key documents in the Oil for Food Embargo as well as finding any resolute solutions to the Congo while a PMO practically does the job for them this is just a sad state of an organization.

since you seem to have a strong opinion on this and I guess you think you base your opinions on facts, tell me, how does the UN work in basic princibles?
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
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I certianly do not recall equating opinion with fact. Nevertheless, I am working on my Ph.D in poly sci thus I am informed and passionate about the subject. What pull does the UN really have anymore? Any? I think not. When the UN is up tothe neck in scandle and has no real arm in resolving diplomatic matters I would call that "debunk".
 
Sep 12, 2004
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More stupidity from our "friends" to the north?

Apparently the author of this article didn't actually read Canada's Crimes against Humanity and War Crimes Act. If he had he'd know that Bush wouldn't be subject to the criteria laid out by the IOG for considering who is charged under that act. Primarily, it wouldn't be in Canada's national interest to try Bush, nor did Bush specifically commit the crimes nor can he be tied to authorizing occurances such as the abuse at Abu Ghraib.

Good job on the silly wishful thinking though. They'd probably have a much easier time trying Kerry for war crimes than Bush. Kerry actually admitted to committing atrocities by his own hands.
 

phillyTIM

Golden Member
Jan 12, 2001
1,942
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Bush definately needs to be charged with War Crimes, by the World (let alone, by Canada).

If our friends in Canada can take the lead on this, then so be it!

Would be *GREAT* to see Bush behind bars with a big moose sniffing his #ss!
 

bozack

Diamond Member
Jan 14, 2000
7,913
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Originally posted by: jlmadyson
I certianly do not recall equating opinion with fact. Nevertheless, I am working on my Ph.D in poly sci thus I am informed and passionate about the subject. What pull does the UN really have anymore? Any? I think not. When the UN is up tothe neck in scandle and has no real arm in resolving diplomatic matters I would call that "debunk".

uugh...one would hope that ANYONE earning their PHD in "poly sci" would know that it is POLI SCI...sad, just sad...this comming from a former "Poly Sci" major however I only got my BA.
 

daveshel

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
5,453
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Originally posted by: conjur
Originally posted by: jlmadyson
Thats right my friend. When the UN refuses to hand over key documents in the Oil for Food Embargo as well as finding any resolute solutions to the Congo while a PMO practically does the job for them this is just a sad state of an organization.
And this has what to do with the topic of this thread? And, you still didn't explain by what you meant by "debunk governmental organization".

I think jlmadysin learned the word 'debunk' from a Seinfeld episode.
 

skyking

Lifer
Nov 21, 2001
22,889
6,056
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Originally posted by: jlmadyson
I certianly do not recall equating opinion with fact. Nevertheless, I am working on my Ph.D in poly sci thus I am informed and passionate about the subject. What pull does the UN really have anymore? Any? I think not. When the UN is up tothe neck in scandle and has no real arm in resolving diplomatic matters I would call that "debunk".

I am sorry, but you need to spend some time composing your post if you are to be taken seriously. If this is the level of english composition you have attained in your education, I wonder where you are getting your PHD.
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,767
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Congrats on the Poli-Sci track - now go take some more English courses so in the future you can hopefully distinguish between 'debunk' and 'defunct.'

 

maddogchen

Diamond Member
Feb 17, 2004
8,903
2
76
yes do that please do.

the only downside is that I'll probably be drafted into the military as fodder in its war against Canada to rescue our president and kill all the liberals there.

 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,268
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I would be terribly suprised and amused. :p


Power is King. If Bush slaughtered a million in the name of anti-terrorism, no one would lay a finger on him, and he knows it.
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
2,201
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Originally posted by: kage69
Congrats on the Poli-Sci track - now go take some more English courses so in the future you can hopefully distinguish between 'debunk' and 'defunct.'

Webster New Riverside:eek:ffice Edition

debunk: To expose fallacy or fradulence of.

Guess that was not the whole point of what I said? Nice try buddy. Guess it's time for you to enroll in some reading courses yourself. lmao
 

kage69

Lifer
Jul 17, 2003
31,767
48,610
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It's a VERB Einstein!

his chronies at the debunk governmental organization otherwise known as the UN.


Now try it with 'defunct.' Laugh your ass off all you want, your the tard here buddy.
 

jlmadyson

Platinum Member
Aug 13, 2004
2,201
0
0
Oh I'm sorry you word monger let me rephrase that for you since supposedly I'm writing my dissertation here with the english police.

"his chronies at the exposed and fraudlent governmental organization otherwise known as the UN."

Is that better for you... ah I hope so.