Should AMD include a better stock cooler on the Athlon x 4 860K?

[cbn]

Intel includes the 95 watt copper bottom heat sink fan with the 54 watt Pentium G3258. This helps overclocking greatly as some folks are able to get 4.5 Ghz (the sweet spot on the frequency/voltage curve) when using a dGPU. However, AMD only includes the standard 95 watt cooler on its 95 watt Athlon x 4 860K limiting overclocking to a point well below the frequency/voltage curve sweet spot. Should AMD instead include the 125 watt TDP cooler from the AM3+ line-up to help DIYers get more mileage out of this chip?

It would seem to me that larger 125 watt AM3+ HSF would be a minimal cost adder to AMD, but potentially save the end consumer the cost of upgrading to an aftermarket cooler.

 

[PPB]

Problem is that the 125W heatsink isnt that better than the 95W one. Both vendors should redesign their stock heatsinks as currently they barely can keep their shipping CPU from throttling on very heavy loads and stress tests.

 

[MiddleOfTheRoad]

The 125W heatsink that comes with the FX 8350 is pretty strong for a stock fan -- it would be an improvement over the garbage cooler that currently is included with the 860K. I'm surprised that AMD doesn't make a Black Edition with something like a Hyper 212. I know it would add some cost, but I think a lot of people would stay with air cooling if it was as good as the Hyper 212.

 

[monstercameron]

Lol you guys are funny, Linus just made a video about this and every amd cooler is better than intels stock cooler.

 

[Jovec]

The Pentium AE is a one off. One that Intel can afford but AMD cannot. If AMD gets their power consumption in check I'm sure they'll be dropping the 125w cooler from whatever SKU they can.

I do think they should include it with the 95w/100w top APU K SKUs though.

 

[cbn]

Linus just made a video about this and every amd cooler is better than intels stock cooler.

Great video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8IgbfFJ0tI

An interesting question he asked at 3:48 into the video, "Is aftermarket cooling worth it for price/performance in early 2015...and if so how much should you invest?"

 

[NTMBK]

No. They should sell it with no cooler at all, and shave £5-10 off the price.

 

[frozentundra123456]

Lol you guys are funny, Linus just made a video about this and every amd cooler is better than intels stock cooler.

Which begs the point, why would somebody want to use an AMD cooler with an Intel cpu or vice versa. Would you not either use the stock cooler or an aftermarket one?

In any case, the 4790k with the stock cooler still runs cooler than the AMD with the best one, so that hardly seems an endorsement of AMDs cooling and thermal properties.

 

[monstercameron]

Which begs the point, why would somebody want to use an AMD cooler with an Intel cpu or vice versa. Would you not either use the stock cooler or an aftermarket one?



In any case, the 4790k with the stock cooler still runs cooler than the AMD with the best one, so that hardly seems an endorsement of AMDs cooling and thermal properties.

Well you are comparing 32nm highly clocked parts vs industry leading 22nm finfet chips...one is bound to have higher thermal characteristics.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Why should they bundle a more expensive cooler when people are not willing to pay more.

 

[jihe]

You know, it's called the stock cooler for a reason...... It's for running at stock.

 

[cbn]

Why should they bundle a more expensive cooler when people are not willing to pay more.

That is a good question.

It depends on how much extra overclocking the AM3+ cooler would allow vs. how much extra it would add to the price.

P.S. Looking at my 65 watt FM2 cooler vs. my 95 watt FM2+ cooler, I've been thinking the price differential is negligible between those two coolers (so if the decision ever came to package 95 watt coolers with future 65 watt or lower processors it would no doubt be a lot easier)........but that 125 watt AM3+ cooler does have the copper pad and heatpipes.

 

[EliteRetard]

Which begs the point, why would somebody want to use an AMD cooler with an Intel cpu or vice versa. Would you not either use the stock cooler or an aftermarket one?

In any case, the 4790k with the stock cooler still runs cooler than the AMD with the best one, so that hardly seems an endorsement of AMDs cooling and thermal properties.

I recently made a thread about this, I was very space constrained so almost no aftermarket coolers would fit...and the stock Intel cooler was horrific bad. I honestly cant believe the temps in that vid, no way in hell they got a 4790 @ 60c under load with ANY air cooler...let alone some puny stock ones. I had massive, near instant, throttle with the stock cooler as it shot up over 95c. I assumed (correctly) that the AMD cooler was far superior...and since I have plenty of stock coolers laying around wanted to find a way to use one. I did, and it was better...but still not enough. I tried the largest best rated after market cooler that would fit, and found that due to a serious design flaw it too was unable to cool a stock 4790k. After much modding and swearing I finally got an ancient 150w phase change chamber cooler in there and temps are mid 70's under stress load. Again, this is 100% stock...4.0-4.4 turbo ~1.2v.

Anyway, if I get another Intel system that's not as insanely hot I probably will use my new-fangled AMD/Intel adapter to utilize the far superior AMD cooler. No way in hell the one Intel includes now (one in the video) is a 65w unit, it's clearly a 35w unit at best. The older much larger core 2 coolers were 65w units.

 

[ShintaiDK]

That is a good question.

It depends on how much extra overclocking the AM3+ cooler would allow vs. how much extra it would add to the price.

Not really. Most will replace the cooler anyway with an aftermarket in the case of overclocking. And for those that dont overclock. Its just a complete waste.

There is no business case.

 

[Tsavo]

Lol you guys are funny, Linus just made a video about this and every amd cooler is better than intels stock cooler.

3lbs AMD coolers vs postage stamp cooler, no wonder.

 

[Tsavo]

Great video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8IgbfFJ0tI

An interesting question he asked at 3:48 into the video, "Is aftermarket cooling worth it for price/performance in early 2015...and if so how much should you invest?"

What a joke of a test. Zip tied coolers.

 

[DrMrLordX]

No. They should sell it with no cooler at all, and shave £5-10 off the price.

I'll go one further: they should sell at least some 860ks delidded. Include the IHS, but don't epoxy the thing on or include TIM on the die. Let the end user do it. Maybe put a thin bit of epoxy on the PCB so that it's easier to stop the IHS from moving around when mounting the HSF . . .

Hell Intel should have sold some 4790ks and 4690ks like that too.

 

[Ramses]

In any case, the 4790k with the stock cooler still runs cooler than the AMD with the best one, so that hardly seems an endorsement of AMDs cooling and thermal properties.

Giant negatory on that in any way I'm capable of measuring after having replaced a 9590 with a 4790k, both under a NH-D15.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Giant negatory on that in any way I'm capable of measuring after having replaced a 9590 with a 4790k, both under a NH-D15.

And in what way did you measure?

One is a 88W TDP part the other is a 220W TDP part.

Temperature? Completely different readings on both if you use any inbuild. Your 9590 may be hotter than the 4790K if measured the same way.

An example could be IDCs observations that the thermtrip is triggered at 87C on the AMD (AMD doesnt officially report thermtrip temperatures). And to compare we know its 130C on the Intel.

 

[Ramses]

Like I said, every way in which myself being an average guy, is able to measure. The usual half dozen software tools I've used the last fifteen years including crosschecking in the bios. HWinfo64 is my favorite.

The most universal and base is my sense of touch on the top of the heatsink after running a stress test for a bit, I've only ever felt the d15 warm to the touch with the 4790k under it. This was my first clue and surprise since I expected the i7 to not only consumer less power and be faster(which it does and is), but to run cooler.

I can't tell you anything about how accurate reported temps are via software or how comparable they are, all I can do is read what I'm given. If one assume the FX is reading 20 degrees lower than it actually is at any point(though I have no reason to assume that), then they are about even.

In in fact thermal throttling is 40 some odd degrees lower on the FX as you say, then that indicates it is not spec'd to operate at nearly as high a temperature as the i7 is and fits my observations.

Also please note it is not inherently "wrong" or "bad" that the i7 runs hotter since it was clearly designed to do so, it just does in every way in which I'm able to observe it. From what I've read, those that remove the IHS end up with temps much more inline with what I saw reported from the 9590. If you can suggest a better way to measure I'm all ears, though I no longer have the FX to test.

 

[cbn]

And for those that dont overclock. Its just a complete waste.

Maybe instead of putting the 125 watt AM3+ cooler on the 95 watt unlocked Athlon x4 860K, AMD could release a faster stock clocked Athlon x4 with 125 watt TDP.

 

[cbn]

I'll go one further: they should sell at least some 860ks delidded.

So you are mentioning bare die, I would actually take a BGA Processor with an unlocked multiplier.

Then let the various OEMs (ASUS, Gigabyte etc.) provide a large enough cooler for tweaking.

With the bare die (BGA) processor, I even wonder if the OEM would be able to make a 125 watt cooler smaller and/or cheaper due to the direct contact of HSF to processor die. (Apparently AMD APUs also use TIM now, not solder)

P.S. The processor could even be Carrizo (although I don't know if the HDL Excavator core scales well to higher TDPs)

 

[Stuka87]

No, AMD should NOT put better coolers. If people want to over clock, they can go buy a better cooler. There is ZERO reason either AMD or Intel should include a cooler intended for over clocking on these low end chips.

 

[sm625]

They should ditch the cooler and knock $7 off the price tag.

 

[ShintaiDK]

Maybe instead of putting the 125 watt AM3+ cooler on the 95 watt unlocked Athlon x4 860K, AMD could release a faster stock clocked Athlon x4 with 125 watt TDP.

No they cant. The platform is 95W and would trigger a nightmare.