Shootings...This is happening to often...

[FettsBabe]

1 dead in Chicago factory shooting

February 5, 2001
Web posted at: 12:33 p.m. EST (1733 GMT)

MELROSE PARK, Illinois (CNN) -- A gunman opened fire on workers at a truck engine plant in suburban Chicago on Monday, killing at least one person, authorities and witnesses said.

At least three ambulances were on the scene at the sprawling Navistar plant, located about 15 miles west of downtown Chicago. Navistar spokesman Roy Wyley confirmed that a shooting had taken place, but would not confirm any reports of injured.

However, Gottlieb Memorial Hospital spokeswoman Angie Hatfield told CNN affiliate WBBM that two men were brought to the facility, one of whom was pronounced dead on arrival.

A second man was in surgery early Monday afternoon. A third victim was being brought to Gottlieb, Hatfield said, while two more were bound for another hospital.

Gunfire broke out in the factory's administrative offices shortly before 10 a.m. (11 a.m. EST) The company manufactures International diesel-fueled truck and school bus engines at the plant, which was evacuated after the shooting.

 

[Viper GTS]

This is happening to often...

My guess is it is going to grow exponentially. The more it happens, the more people are going to think "Hey, I could do that! I'll teach those bastards a lesson!"

And then crap like this happens.

Viper GTS

 

[Balt]

I know the press has a right to talk about this stuff, and I know a lot of people want to hear about it...

But if they want these shootings to lessen, they need to quit giving them such publicity. Viper is absolutely right, the more people that see/hear about it, the more they think "Hey, that's something I could do!"

 

[FettsBabe]

<< the more people that see/hear about it, the more they think &quot;Hey, that's something I could do!&quot; >>



Thats very sad, but its true. I don't understand how people can act like this.

 

[StageLeft]

It happens because most people in the US are unwilling to do what is necessary to cause it to ocurr less frequently, ie. give up their guns whether they are &quot;my god given right&quot; or not. Such loads of horse dung don't mean much when your kid has just been shot to death.

It still sucks though

 

[FettsBabe]

<< It happens because most people in the US are unwilling to do what is necessary to cause it to ocurr less frequently, >>



I have a gun, but I would never shoot someone unless my life was in danger. Giving up guns is not the answer. Blaming guns isn't the answer either. Don't you think it has a little to do with morals and how society has allowed morals to be depleated?

 

[StageLeft]

Don't you think it has a little to do with morals and how society has allowed morals to be depleated?
Not really no. The reason I say that is because Canada and the states are very similar except that when we have a shooting people actually care. My brother lives in AZ and says it happens so frequently that they hardly even put it on the news. Our morals are no different but we have much less in the way of gun-related crime. This is because getting a gun is hard. I cannot go to the store right now and put in an order for a handgun and have it in my hands in a few days.

You look around the world and the less guns in a country the less gun-related crimes. Gun owners in the states say that giving up guns aren't the answer because afterall _you_ are a law-abiding citizen. Nonetheless countries with less guns like Canada and England (I say these because the culture is simiarl) have far less gun-related crimes.

As everybody knows its impossible to keep guns in law-abiding hands and away from criminals - so why not do what Canada does and make it hard for _anybody_ to get a gun? Sure I can get one if i want to hunt easily enough but you can bet your ass its not easy for me to pick up a handgun. I don't know a single person who owns one and not a one of my direct friends has even a rifle or shotgun.

The state's liberal and easy-go-grab-a-gun laws have meant there is a gun for each person in the country. Its a mess you've gotten yourselves into and the more people go on about their god-given rights the less likely the mess is going to be cleaned up.

 

[Viper GTS]

Nonetheless countries with less guns like Canada and England (I say these because the culture is simiarl) have far less gun-related crimes.

Well duh, but guns aren't the real issue. A gun is merely a tool, like a car. How many crimes involve cars? What about crimes where the perp wore shoes? the real issues is the PEOPLE, not the tools available to them.

Viper GTS

 

[StageLeft]

Viper, when was the last time you saw somebody take out a small crowd of people with a baseball bat or a buck knife? When was the last time a kid came to school with a pellet gun and killed a dozen people?

Obviously people are the problem - and the more powerful the tool the more destruction these people can cause. If guns are not the answer and its the people how come its illegal for people in the states to buy fully automatic machine guns or grab a six pack of grenades at the gun store? Why not a bazooka? Afterall you say its the people, not the tool so why can't I defend my house with an RPG? Its because the more destructive the tool the more descutruction these people can cause.

 

[warcleric]

Skoorb: show me the statistics for crimes committed with LEGALLY REGISTERED firearms. Criminals are criminals, they will not follow any anti-gun legislation ever. All a ban on guns will do is disarm LAW ABIDING citizens. Not the scum that is out there committing these violent acts.

P.S. How did I know you were Canadian before I looked in your profile



<< My brother lives in AZ and says it happens so frequently that they hardly even put it on the news. >>

God how much BS is this statement. I live in a large city and this does not occur frequently. Just another product of that anti-US propoganda that you Canadians constantly spew.

 

[StageLeft]

I don't have those stats

they will not follow any anti-gun legislation ever Thats not entirely true because, as I said, if its hard to get guns its hard for everyone to get guns. I know that criminals in Canada have them but not nearly as many as criminals in the states because if its easy for legal ownership its easier for criminals too.

God how much BS is this statement. I live in a large city and this does not occur frequently. Just another product of that anti-US propoganda that you Canadians constantly spew. Lets put it this way. How many times does the average cop in the US draw his firearm during his career? As I said I don't have the stats but I'll bet my life on the fact its far more often than the frequency of gun-draws by cops in Canada, even after taking into account other factors like number of cops, etc.

 

[BiggieN]

just a bit more info, there are at least 4 dead confirmed by the mayor of melrose park. the gunman had an ak-47 assualt rifle and a .38 handgun. so that makes 4 dead and at least 3 injured. shooter himself is either one of the dead or the injured.

 

[StageLeft]

I won't say its impossible to get an AK-47 in Halifax but you'd never hear of it being used in a crime.

 

[BDawg]

Warcleric- You want stats that compare registered to unregistered gun crimes?

I don't think you need them. In Canada, guns are hard to get period. By your logic, the crime rates would be the same as the US since the &quot;Criminals are criminals, they will not follow any anti-gun legislation ever.&quot;

So why the disparity? Apparently limiting guns also limits illegal guns.

 

[madthumbs]

There are more common causes of death like.....

car accidents -don't drive a car
second hand smoke -don't smoke second hand

 

[warcleric]

I believe the disparity stems from vast cultural differences. Often times seemingly unrelated legislation or economic conditions create this violent crime. I do not think that the guns are the cause of it. Mass killings are rare and make up a tiny percentage of all homocide in this country, they just tend to get more media coverage than normal homocide. Banning guns may cut down on mass killings but then cyanide is hard to get too, and it wasnt long ago we had cyanide laced Tylenol on the shleves.

 

[Kosugi]

Statistically though, these events are down overall, however, when one happens we do hear about it.


There really isn't a single reason for the US's rate of murder and crime. What is interesting though, is how we target the supposed causes. A little while back, (I can't source the article for this, sorry) politicians and the NRA singled out violent movies and violent video games as the cause to violence on the streets and in schools. A group based out of Canada then responded by comparing Toronto with [i forget the US city] which had roughly equivalent populations and demographics, and found that though the Canadians were watching the same US exported movies, and playing the same US exported video games, the violent crime rate was 15 times lower! Kind of shoots a hole in the idea that there is one single cause to this nations violence problems.

No, if I'd have to make a guess, I'd say about 50% of the US's problem is the easy availability of guns, and spread the other 50% around to families that don't raise their children well, violence on televsion, and drug motivated robberies and murder. Also, you have to include the &quot;wacko&quot; factor. The bigger a population, the higher the probability you will get some wackos. Remember, wackos don't just work for the postal service!

Fettsbabe, more than likely, people like you are the ones we want to have guns. It is completely within your rights to own one, and I hope you never have to use it. Still, the ease at which criminals, especially the hardcore repeat offenders, can get guns scare me. Gun control laws need to be strenghtened. I know some people can't differentiate between Gun-Control and Gun-Grabbing, but there is a difference. Maybe that difference would have saved that guys life in michigan.

 

[FettsBabe]

<< You look around the world and the less guns in a country the less gun-related crimes. >>



So, the criminals don't use guns (very much), so what do they use? I'm sure they have something! Just because you outlaw guns doesn't mean that another &quot;tool&quot; won't be the next big weapon.

People are the problem. Some people have a problem valuing life. Lack of morals.

 

[Viper GTS]

Bertha will be the next weapon of mass destruction.

Please, everyone, prepare yourselves by downloading &amp; printing your very own Bertha Antidote. Don't be caught unprepared.

Viper GTS

 

[FettsBabe]

Good call Kasugi. Gun's should be controlled...license, serial number, etc, but people should still be allowed to own them. In fact, a law abiding citizen, in my opinion, can own several or as many as they want. Some people collect them while others show them off in their gun case. Thats no big deal. However, when &quot;Puffy&quot; gets one then we have a problem. Whats his record again? He should have never had one.:|

 

[Luchini]

I have not read much about the motives behind this shooting but I gather this factory was a place where car engines were made. Does anybody think it has anything to do with the slowing economy, especially in the automobile industry (chrysler layoffs)? Maybe this guy was about to lose his job or something. Still no excuse to go crazy and shoot people. But tell me what would banning guns do to stop this crime? Drugs are illegal and people still get their hands on them. And even if there were no drugs on this planet, people would still find ways to get high. The same can be said with guns, eliminate guns if you like, but people will still find ways to kill.

 

[KameLeon]

<< when was the last time you saw somebody take out a small crowd of people with a baseball bat or a buck knife? When was the last time a kid came to school with a pellet gun and killed a dozen people? >>



I agree with skoorb. Eliminating guns could be a FIRST STEP to solving this problem, It doesn't have to be a solution to the whole problem...



<< And even if there were no drugs on this planet, people would still find ways to get high. The same can be said with guns, eliminate guns if you like, but people will still find ways to kill. >>



There wouldn't be as many people using them as there are now..So It does solve the problem, although not eliminate it completely..

 

[FettsBabe]

Your comments about drugs are wrong. Crack and Cocaine were invented by a person. It just didn't grow on a tree! In fact, Marijuana can be a great product for medication, etc. but some person smoked it, and isn't it amazing how many people followed his lead?

 

[warcleric]

The best solution I can come up with in gun control is fingerprint scanners built in to the grips, that way a gun could in no way be fired by anyone except the registered owner. Stolen legal guns would be worthless, likewise children couldnt harm themselves or others by playing with their irresponsible parents guns. Beretta has been testing a design like this that would add less than $50 to the price of a new handgun, and can be transferred from one owner to the next. The government could have strict control over such transfers to ensure that the wrong people dont get these weapons. As far as guns made before this technology, well they would eventually die out. This can solve the problem of illegal guns and continue to give us our constitutionally guaranteed right to bear arms. I dont know about you but I am uncomfortable in relying on any government to provide my safety and well being. Hell for all we know the government itself might be the next enemy we face. <and no I am not a militia member >

 

[pamchenko]

MOD PLZ LOCK THIS ... THERE ARE ALREADY TOO MANY CS related threads
anyways, I guess the CT's won this one, but some of the hostages were taken out... I bet there were some awp whores on and stuff