shelby spy shots & 2014 Mustang Rumors

[DaTT]

Modern setups are being designed to act like turbos... but the fact remains they are rpm based.

You could say the same about turbo's....their goal is to make boost. Other than that, I don't understand what you mean "designed to act like turbo's"

As far as "RPM based", I think i know where you were going with that, and yes, obviously the faster the engine turns, the faster the SC will turn. However, they are not always putting boost into the engine.

 

[DaTT]

How do you explain the whine from a 8 rib serpentine belt?

The whine from my Kenne Bell is both a combination of gear noise in the drive snout, and the popping of compressed air discharging from the screw lobes into the intake manifold which each pass of the lobes at the discharge port at 10,000+ cycles per second. It's actually that discharge air popping in pulses at thousands of hrz that gives twin screws their characteristic shrill.

Ugg, I can hardly wait to get some sort of Kenne Bell 2.6L blower under the hood of my car.....or a GT500. I would be happy with either.

 

[exdeath]

I believe you to be incorrect about the belt noise. I have owned a Tbird SC, currently a GTP and have driven a '10 GT500. The only time any of these cars (save the GTP because it's SC'er makes zero noise due to noise suppression) whine is when the boost guage come out of vac and into boost.

The only sc whine I have heard at idle is at the drag strip on an 8 sec car

A cog drive belt makes a ton of noise by itself. He's not wrong about the belt noise with a cog belt, but a supercharger will still whine without a cog drive.

 

[Zivic]

You could say the same about turbo's....their goal is to make boost. Other than that, I don't understand what you mean "designed to act like turbo's"

As far as "RPM based", I think i know where you were going with that, and yes, obviously the faster the engine turns, the faster the SC will turn. However, they are not always putting boost into the engine.

a supercharger takes XXXX rpm to make Y boost. In some examples, it may take till redline before the supercharger will hit peak boost.... this is regardless of the load. no matter how you look at it, you are using the motor to drive the blower. this makes it parasitic vs a turbo making power from a waste product.

A turbo will make boost based on load. sure it make take till XXXX rpm before they hit peak boost, but generally that is much sooner than redline.

What I mean about 'acting like a turbo' is that manufacturers are designing them to not boost under lighter loads (like partial throttle, and cruising)

my preference is for a flat power band. get up to peak HP quickly and hold till redline vs what most superchargers offer.... linear

 

[Zenmervolt]

I believe you to be incorrect about the belt noise. I have owned a Tbird SC, currently a GTP and have driven a '10 GT500. The only time any of these cars (save the GTP because it's SC'er makes zero noise due to noise suppression) whine is when the boost guage come out of vac and into boost.

The only sc whine I have heard at idle is at the drag strip on an 8 sec car

You can believe whatever you want, the facts don't change. A gilmer belt whines. Period.

Without much load (e.g. when the bypass valve on the s/c is open) they won't whine much, in fact, most are probably quiet enough that an average person either won't notice it or won't attribute it to belt whine, but a toothed belt will always whine. Hell, the timing belts on my cars whine slightly.

Now, if you're talking about a centrifugal supercharger, you're right and I was wrong. Those are driven by v-belts and generally don't make any noise at idle. I was only thinking about positive displacement superchargers (e.g. Eaton, Kenne Bell, Whipple, etc).

ZV

 

[JackBurton]

Again, I don't think you understand. How old are you?
-I haven't seen any recent Mustangs with racing stripes, except the Shelby.
-The V-6 Mustang starts at 20k. Damn good bargain.
-0-60 isn't everything. Unless you are street light racing from the dig, the Mustang has enough to hold off a Z.
-The Mustang doesn't look like a Japanese anime hero's supercar.

I also do not own a v6 Mustang. But nice try.

Ah, I don't understand. I see. It must be the guy reading C&D that understands, not the guy that actually has driven one.

- I've seen PLENTY in my area.
- It offers good power for the money, but it's still not enough to be a real muscle car.
- It matters quite a bit from a practical perspective. The people that buy V6 Mustangs are VERY unlikely to take it to the track, so what is the point of track numbers? They are generally fat middle aged women or men with NO interest in performance and just want a Mustang shell. The V6 Mustang could have 200hp and it wouldn't matter to them. They just want a Mustang.
- The Mustang is supposed to be a muscle car, and there is no "muscle" in a V6 Mustang. Sorry.
- That's personal preference.

I never said you owned one. Nice try though.

And another option on my pet peeve list is an automatic transmission in a GT. I can understand the auto in a V6, but in a GT? People will argue back and forth about auto and manual, but I'm glad Ford told the auto fans FU with the Boss 302 and GT500. You want a GT500 but you don't want a manual? FU! Go buy another car then. :thumbsup: Ford!

 

[IcePickFreak]

You can believe whatever you want, the facts don't change. A gilmer belt whines. Period.

Without much load (e.g. when the bypass valve on the s/c is open) they won't whine much, in fact, most are probably quiet enough that an average person either won't notice it or won't attribute it to belt whine, but a toothed belt will always whine. Hell, the timing belts on my cars whine slightly.

Now, if you're talking about a centrifugal supercharger, you're right and I was wrong. Those are driven by v-belts and generally don't make any noise at idle. I was only thinking about positive displacement superchargers (e.g. Eaton, Kenne Bell, Whipple, etc).

ZV

The loudest ones I've heard are Walkinshaws, I'm sure you'd love one of those. :awe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dIgsUlEWwis

 

[Elfear]

And another option on my pet peeve list is an automatic transmission in a GT. I can understand the auto in a V6, but in a GT? People will argue back and forth about auto and manual, but I'm glad Ford told the auto fans FU with the Boss 302 and GT500. You want a GT500 but you don't want a manual? FU! Go buy another car then. :thumbsup: Ford!

Come on now. I love manuals just as much as the next guy but what about the people who have knee injuries (raises hand) or pins in their shoulders (seen that) or any other number of issues that preclude them from driving a manual. Manuals are more fun but not giving the option of an auto would sure suck for a lot of automotive enthusiasts.

 

[DaTT]

You can believe whatever you want, the facts don't change. A gilmer belt whines. Period.

Without much load (e.g. when the bypass valve on the s/c is open) they won't whine much, in fact, most are probably quiet enough that an average person either won't notice it or won't attribute it to belt whine, but a toothed belt will always whine. Hell, the timing belts on my cars whine slightly.

Now, if you're talking about a centrifugal supercharger, you're right and I was wrong. Those are driven by v-belts and generally don't make any noise at idle. I was only thinking about positive displacement superchargers (e.g. Eaton, Kenne Bell, Whipple, etc).

ZV

Your typical supercharged vehicle does not come with those type of belts, roots style or not. I have only seen those in high HP applications....ie race track. My SuperCoupe didn't whine at idle, GTP does not whine at idle, GT500 does not whine at idle. I thought we were talking normal street cars cars.

 

[DaTT]

a supercharger takes XXXX rpm to make Y boost. In some examples, it may take till redline before the supercharger will hit peak boost.... this is regardless of the load. no matter how you look at it, you are using the motor to drive the blower. this makes it parasitic vs a turbo making power from a waste product.

A turbo will make boost based on load. sure it make take till XXXX rpm before they hit peak boost, but generally that is much sooner than redline.

What I mean about 'acting like a turbo' is that manufacturers are designing them to not boost under lighter loads (like partial throttle, and cruising)

my preference is for a flat power band. get up to peak HP quickly and hold till redline vs what most superchargers offer.... linear

You are aware that boosted vehicles have a bypass valve that opens and closes depending on demand, right? Superchargers have always acted this way, the boost is there and ready when you need/want it.

Lets not turn this into a pissing contest about what it better, I know thew pros and cons of both turbo and blower, I happen to prefer superchargers, twin screw to be exact. The Kenne Bell 2.6L blower is sexy as fuck.

 

[JackBurton]

Come on now. I love manuals just as much as the next guy but what about the people who have knee injuries (raises hand) or pins in their shoulders (seen that) or any other number of issues that preclude them from driving a manual. Manuals are more fun but not giving the option of an auto would sure suck for a lot of automotive enthusiasts.

That's part of the driving experience of a car like a GT, 302 or GT500. If you can't drive it the way it is meant to be driven, it's best that you look for another car. I prefer Ford not watering down the experience for people that can't drive the car the way it is supposed to be driven. It's just part of what the car is all about.

Quite honestly though, most people that buy autos are not in your situation. If you bought an auto because you are unable to work the clutch, that's cool. But most people buy an auto because they can't drive a stick or are just lazy, which I find irritating. If you don't know or are too lazy to drive a stick in a GT or above, you don't deserve to drive the car. Keep in mind though, this is just my opinion and has nothing to do with Ford making a buck.

 

[exdeath]

Ill sell you my 2.6 KB when I go twin turbo :awe:

 

[DaTT]

Ill sell you my 2.6 KB when I go twin turbo :awe:

Not sure yours is a bolt on for the 3v 4.6.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Your typical supercharged vehicle does not come with those type of belts, roots style or not. I have only seen those in high HP applications....ie race track. My SuperCoupe didn't whine at idle, GTP does not whine at idle, GT500 does not whine at idle. I thought we were talking normal street cars cars.

I've had friends with GTPs and I've seen GT500s running around at the track. Both have distinct supercharger whine. Never been around a SuperCoupe, so I can't comment on those, but a GT500 abso-friggin'-lutely has supercharger whine.

ZV

 

[Throckmorton]

The Falcon doesn't have an unequal length control arm IRS. It has Control Blade, like the Focus and Escape.

It could end up being worse than what the engineers wanted in the first place (which was the reason the current Mustang isn't on the Falcon platform), a rear subframe and short/long arm.


Control Blade has the hub mounted rigidly on a trailing arm, combined with lateral links. The trailing arm handles forward/backward forces, and the lateral links handle side forces. As the suspension cycles and camber changes, the blade has to bend. The disadvantage though is that the wheels get pulled inward as the suspension compresses or unloads, causing toe out.

 

[Ronstang]

Superchargers are fine and all, but if i had a choice i will choose a turbo

That is because you drive a shitbox that does not make enough HP to even turn a supercharger so you are stuck with a turbo.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

Sounds better than a turbo...but even still, I prefer all engine cars sound wise. I'm not saying I wouldn't get a SC for performance reasons, but straight muscle with a good sounding exhaust sounds amazing. One of the main reasons I want to get a cam job in my Camaro is the sound.

All engine cars sound beastly. Nothing like a fat lope.

 

[TakeNoPrisoners]

From my understanding of forced induction they usually sound like stock cars until you mash the gas. All engine cars sound mean at every throttle position. Overall you lose drivability to an extent when taking that path.

 

[exdeath]

Not really. A good blown setup will just feel like a 700 cube engine that you wouldnt even known was blown if not for the whine.

 

[thedarkwolf]

- It matters quite a bit from a practical perspective. The people that buy V6 Mustangs are VERY unlikely to take it to the track, so what is the point of track numbers? They are generally fat middle aged women or men with NO interest in performance and just want a Mustang shell. The V6 Mustang could have 200hp and it wouldn't matter to them. They just want a Mustang.

The people with V8s are very unlikely to take their cars to a track either so you can say the same about them. There was a 22 year old girl today at my autox event tearing the hell out of her stock all season tires in her new v6 5speed camaro. Doing more than most of those macho v8 guys will ever do to their car. She is good too since she has been autoxing her dad's z06 vette for years.

 

[Zap]

There was a 22 year old girl today at my autox event tearing the hell out of her stock all season tires in her new v6 5speed camaro.

Pics?

Of her smokin' hot Camaro, I mean. :sneaky:

 

[DaTT]

I've had friends with GTPs and I've seen GT500s running around at the track. Both have distinct supercharger whine. Never been around a SuperCoupe, so I can't comment on those, but a GT500 abso-friggin'-lutely has supercharger whine.

ZV

At idle? Never heard it...especially the GTP....at full boost?...goddam right A GT500 screams. My (wife's) GTP is stock and still has the air silencer so it doesn't make any SC noise.

 

[foghorn67]

Ah, I don't understand. I see. It must be the guy reading C&D that understands, not the guy that actually has driven one.

- I've seen PLENTY in my area.
- It offers good power for the money, but it's still not enough to be a real muscle car.
- It matters quite a bit from a practical perspective. The people that buy V6 Mustangs are VERY unlikely to take it to the track, so what is the point of track numbers? They are generally fat middle aged women or men with NO interest in performance and just want a Mustang shell. The V6 Mustang could have 200hp and it wouldn't matter to them. They just want a Mustang.
- The Mustang is supposed to be a muscle car, and there is no "muscle" in a V6 Mustang. Sorry.
- That's personal preference.

I never said you owned one. Nice try though.

And another option on my pet peeve list is an automatic transmission in a GT. I can understand the auto in a V6, but in a GT? People will argue back and forth about auto and manual, but I'm glad Ford told the auto fans FU with the Boss 302 and GT500. You want a GT500 but you don't want a manual? FU! Go buy another car then. :thumbsup: Ford!

Pony car, not muscle car. Muscle is there if you option for it.
Seeing how the v6 Mustang is more powerful then 95% of the Mustangs ever made, it's enough muscle for most.

 

[Pariah]

At idle? Never heard it...especially the GTP....at full boost?...goddam right A GT500 screams. My (wife's) GTP is stock and still has the air silencer so it doesn't make any SC noise.

I don't know which GTP you are referring to, but I owned a 2004 Grand Prix GTP (series III 3800/eaton SC) a few years ago, and that had no SC whine at idle. If it does, it either isn't stock, or isn't running right. You really had to lay into it before the SC whine became prominent.

 

[zerocool84]

That is because you drive a shitbox that does not make enough HP to even turn a supercharger so you are stuck with a turbo.

Meh I prefer turbos as well.