She was impressively composed, definitely has talent... But she lied repeatedly

[Thump553]

This has been reported before I believe, but two thirds (actually 68%) of pay no federal income tax whatsoever No taxes. Personally when I advise small companies, if they are paying more than nuisance level state income (franchise) taxes, I suggest they reevaluate who they are using for an accountant. To a large extent corporate taxes today are a GOP boogieman, much like the so-called "death tax."

Personally I'd be pretty outraged and felt put upon if I found out two thirds of the people on my street weren't paying taxes, but the business community has done a superlative job with their PR front to reduce their taxes, supposedly to promote job growth.

And don't even get me started on public subsidies to businesses to lure them to a region.

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: Thump553
This has been reported before I believe, but two thirds (actually 68%) of pay no federal income tax whatsoever No taxes. Personally when I advise small companies, if they are paying more than nuisance level state income (franchise) taxes, I suggest they reevaluate who they are using for an accountant. To a large extent corporate taxes today are a GOP boogieman, much like the so-called "death tax."

Personally I'd be pretty outraged and felt put upon if I found out two thirds of the people on my street weren't paying taxes, but the business community has done a superlative job with their PR front to reduce their taxes, supposedly to promote job growth.

And don't even get me started on public subsidies to businesses to lure them to a region.

If you're looking at the same report I think you are, it doesn't take into account all the businesses that pay their "income tax" through the owner's, or partners, or private shareholders personal income tax.

 

[Thump553]

The businesses that pay their income taxes through their owners do so through special provisions of the internal revenue code whereby nothing is taxed at the corporate level and all the income or loss is passed through directly to the owners. This is to avoid "double taxation" on mom & pop businesses, like mine or my wifes.

The net result is say, a doctor whose Subchapter S solo practice (passes thru tax liability to the individual) nets $150k per year. That doctor pays the same income tax that an employee doctor who makes $150k pays, and his corporate pays nothing. In essence, the feds get all the income tax they would have from that individual that they would have without regard to corporate structure of his or her business, no more or no less. (Note-the self employed or Sub S doctor pays more in social security tax-but less than the employee and his employer corp pay together-but that is a different issue).

The article I linked noted that 68% of foreign corporations doing business in the US don't pay any federal income tax either. It also pointed out that 25% of the large corporations (defined as more than $250,000,000 in assets or $50,000,000 in receipts) did not pay any federal income tax. I think it is safe to conclude that those corporations are not the local plumber, doctor, lawyer, baber shop, etc. who has a partnership, LLC or Sub S corporation.

I'm am still not convinced that our tax structure places an unfair burden on employers but rather, quite the oppostie is true. I think what we are dealing with here is a very successful lobbying effort to avoid payment of fair taxation. Please note further that with very limited exceptions (mostly oil companies) Obama does not propose to increase corporate taxes at all. The real argument is that the GOP wants to lessen an already low rate of taxation.

Disclosure-I am self-employed, and my wife is a member of an LLC in her own business.

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: Thump553
The businesses that pay their income taxes through their owners do so through special provisions of the internal revenue code whereby nothing is taxed at the corporate level and all the income or loss is passed through directly to the owners. This is to avoid "double taxation" on mom & pop businesses, like mine or my wifes.

The net result is say, a doctor whose Subchapter S solo practice (passes thru tax liability to the individual) nets $150k per year. That doctor pays the same income tax that an employee doctor who makes $150k pays, and his corporate pays nothing. In essence, the feds get all the income tax they would have from that individual that they would have without regard to corporate structure of his or her business, no more or no less. (Note-the self employed or Sub S doctor pays more in social security tax-but less than the employee and his employer corp pay together-but that is a different issue).

The article I linked noted that 68% of foreign corporations doing business in the US don't pay any federal income tax either. It also pointed out that 25% of the large corporations (defined as more than $250,000,000 in assets or $50,000,000 in receipts) did not pay any federal income tax. I think it is safe to conclude that those corporations are not the local plumber, doctor, lawyer, baber shop, etc. who has a partnership, LLC or Sub S corporation.

I'm am still not convinced that our tax structure places an unfair burden on employers but rather, quite the oppostie is true. I think what we are dealing with here is a very successful lobbying effort to avoid payment of fair taxation. Please note further that with very limited exceptions (mostly oil companies) Obama does not propose to increase corporate taxes at all. The real argument is that the GOP wants to lessen an already low rate of taxation.

Disclosure-I am self-employed, and my wife is a member of an LLC in her own business.

I don't think you realize how many "big businesses" are not corporations. Many huge companies are partnerships, sub-chapter S, or LLCs. The article does not say 2/3 of C-corporations aren't paying taxes, it says corporations (which are C-coprs, S-coprs, and LLCs). From your article:

"Half of all business income in the United States now ends up going through the individual tax code," Edwards said.

If half the businesses go through individual tax codes, that means that 75% - ~50% = ~25% of corporations get away without paying taxes... and I find it easy to believe that 18%* - 20%* of corporations probably come close to breaking even after paying employees and the cost of doing business. So 5%* - 8%* are getting through loopholes and paying no taxes is not that bad, considering those businesses probably aren't generating that much extra income anyway if they can get away with that.

(just because 25% of corps in the US (doesn't specify C, S, or LLC) are considered large corps, it doesn't mean that they didn't match their receipts/assets in expenses).

*denotes a guesstimation.

 

[MadRat]

When Palin finished her speech and John McCain came out onto the stage, why did Palin suddenly move away from him? The whole body language between the two looked as warm as an Alaskan summer.

 

[Bowfinger]

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
I don't think you realize how many "big businesses" are not corporations. Many huge companies are partnerships, sub-chapter S, or LLCs. The article does not say 2/3 of C-corporations aren't paying taxes, it says corporations (which are C-coprs, S-coprs, and LLCs). From your article:

"Half of all business income in the United States now ends up going through the individual tax code," Edwards said.

If half the businesses go through individual tax codes, that means that 75% - ~50% = ~25% of corporations get away without paying taxes... and I find it easy to believe that 18%* - 20%* of corporations probably come close to breaking even after paying employees and the cost of doing business. So 5%* - 8%* are getting through loopholes and paying no taxes is not that bad, considering those businesses probably aren't generating that much extra income anyway if they can get away with that.

(just because 25% of corps in the US (doesn't specify C, S, or LLC) are considered large corps, it doesn't mean that they didn't match their receipts/assets in expenses).

*denotes a guesstimation.

Your math is faulty. It says half of all business income, i.e., total dollars, not half of all businesses.

 

[pstylesss]

Originally posted by: Bowfinger

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
I don't think you realize how many "big businesses" are not corporations. Many huge companies are partnerships, sub-chapter S, or LLCs. The article does not say 2/3 of C-corporations aren't paying taxes, it says corporations (which are C-coprs, S-coprs, and LLCs). From your article:

"Half of all business income in the United States now ends up going through the individual tax code," Edwards said.

If half the businesses go through individual tax codes, that means that 75% - ~50% = ~25% of corporations get away without paying taxes... and I find it easy to believe that 18%* - 20%* of corporations probably come close to breaking even after paying employees and the cost of doing business. So 5%* - 8%* are getting through loopholes and paying no taxes is not that bad, considering those businesses probably aren't generating that much extra income anyway if they can get away with that.

(just because 25% of corps in the US (doesn't specify C, S, or LLC) are considered large corps, it doesn't mean that they didn't match their receipts/assets in expenses).

*denotes a guesstimation.

Your math is faulty. It says half of all business income, i.e., total dollars, not half of all businesses.

Well then that still doesn't help you. It doesn't help either of us, because it doesn't tell us the number or percentage of businesses make up that half... which was probably done on purpose to sensationalize the report. I'd bet a larger number of smaller businesses make up that half of the business income which goes through the personal tax code, but it's just a guess at this point.

We need the text of the report, not the article with a reporters take on the report.