• Guest, The rules for the P & N subforum have been updated to prohibit "ad hominem" or personal attacks against other posters. See the full details in the post "Politics and News Rules & Guidelines."

Shark Fin Ban in California

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,456
21,529
146
What about dolphins such as the killer whale.
I was thinking of Orcas, but they aren't such a ubiquitous predator. They're primary food source is harbor or lion seals afaik, though they have certainly been known to pack up and hunt humpback calves and will gorge on schools of fish.

whale sharks will do that, too, even though plankton represents more than 90% of their diet..
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,385
1,517
126
per discovery:

sharks eat seals
seals eat fish

no sharks means more seals means less fish

ref: shark week 2011
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
Since Killer Whales (Orca's) and Sharks have been discussed in this thread, I thought I would point out that there is a great documentary on the National Geographic channel tonight titled "The Whale That Ate Jaws". The action was filmed off of the Farallon Islands near San Francisco. There is some incredible footage of this never before seen behavior, and the intelligence the whale exhibited to kill the shark is amazing. I am on West Coast time, and it is on at 4:00 PM and again at 11:00 PM.

I highly recommending either watching or recording it for later viewing.
 

Nebor

Lifer
Jun 24, 2003
29,582
11
76
per discovery:

sharks eat seals
seals eat fish

no sharks means more seals means less fish

ref: shark week 2011
But seals are adorable.... so that should count for something.
 

davmat787

Diamond Member
Nov 30, 2010
5,513
24
76
http://www.livescience.com/1814-monster-jellyfish-invade-gulf-mexico.html

http://www.haaretz.com/news/world-s-most-invasive-jellyfish-spreading-along-israel-coast-1.278097

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5876499/Japan-hit-by-invasion-of-giant-Nomuras-jellyfish.html

this is what happens when you over-fish, primarily tuna (serious predator).

monster jellyfish show up and destroy everything. These guys have been raping the Japanese every other year or so, primarily do to Japan's wanton and shameful rape of the oceans to feed their bluefin addiction.

Again, I would cry crocodile tears for these pricks, but this shit is spreading everywhere, now.
QFT. The Japanese often claim it is a cultural right/issue, taking advantage of those in the US who are ultra sensitive to that kind of shit.

First of all, it is taboo for a restaurant in Japan to be out of tuna. Secondly, the prices blue fin and other tuna will fetch are amazing. The main fish market where Japan sources their tuna is in Fiji actually. Early this year, a record was set where a single tuna was sold for just over $400,000.00 US!!!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-12117010

On a positive note, there is good work going on in Australia to breed tuna in captivity. Amazing work is being done identifying what water temps, salinity, and light levels are needed to trigger "Tuna Sex". hehe
 
Last edited:

erikistired

Diamond Member
Sep 27, 2000
9,739
0
0
It's another racist/cultural food law. It can join the other cultural/racist food bans like eating dogs, cats, horses etc.
if you really believe that watch gordon ramsay's doc on it shark finning. it's absolutely disgusting the way the animal is treated, and i'm the farthest thing from an animal rights nut. the waste is absolutely atrocious, and they often cut off the fins while the shark is still alive, then throw what is left back in the ocean.

Never really cared for shark fin soup myself. It has an interesting (and not necessarily good) chew to it and little flavor, and not much else to excite the taste buds.

Won't give a damn if it disappears.

<- Chinese
if i understand it right it's become more of a status thing rather than something people eat because it's good. the reason the shark fin industry has boomed is the price they get for the fin. that's why they toss the rest of the animal away, it's not worth anything compared to the fins.

Yes there is a reason. People like to eat shark fin. Typical liberal attitude. You guys hate liberty, freedom, and prosperity.
i'm not a liberal and i think eating shark fin is ridiculous. people don't eat it because they like to, they eat it to show lesser people that they can afford it. it's not expensive because it's delicious.

it's amusing that people crap all over americans because of "culture" or perceived lack of it, but when it's some ridiculous thing like killing off all the sharks for a status symbol meal that most people agree isn't even good, we're hating on their "culture" and should stop.
 
Last edited:

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
0
0
I'm sure it will be just as effective in stopping shark finning and keeping people from eating shark fin soup as marijuana laws were effective to stop people from smoking weed.
 

Aegeon

Golden Member
Nov 2, 2004
1,809
125
106
I'm sure it will be just as effective in stopping shark finning and keeping people from eating shark fin soup as marijuana laws were effective to stop people from smoking weed.
Actually it should be incredibly effective at least as far as massively reducing any shark fin consumption in California is concerned.

We're not talking about a dish that Chinese in the US prepare at home. Shark fin soup is basically exclusively served as fancy dish at Chinese restaurants and by caterers (who specialize in Chinese food) at banquets. It actually takes a significant amount of skill and time to really produce the dish properly. (As noted its all about the flavor of the broth and like rather than the fin itself.)

Any restaurant or caterer that tries to serve shark fin soup regardless would be potentially looking at some really nasty fines which should remove any economic incentive for risking it. (At most you would be looking at a restaurant or two that would risk quietly offering it to a extremely tiny number of people covertly, rather than the current situation where its relatively readily available.)

We're not talking about a situation like with marijuana where once you have possession of the material in question its easy enough to create a blunt to smoke it or otherwise do what you want with it.

You might still have a few people of Chinese ancestry go over to Nevada to buy a little bit of dried shark fin for general consumption due to its perceived medicinal value, (it actually doesn't do anything but possibly give you a bit of mercury poisoning) but if this actually became a noteworthy phenomenon that would put a huge amount of pressure on Nevada to ban the trade and sale of shark fins as well. (And this is not the primary way that shark fins are consumed regardless.)

The law certainly should basically stop sharks being caught for their fins in California waters. The fact fisherman can no longer sell their fins in California as well as Oregon and Washington State should also reduce the incentive to catch sharks commercially period (and even if they tried to sneak down to Mexico to sell them, shark fishing is going to be outright banned in Mexico soon.)

Its simply an extremely different situation than something like marijuana where enforcement can be such a problem.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,456
21,529
146
I'm sure it will be just as effective in stopping shark finning and keeping people from eating shark fin soup as marijuana laws were effective to stop people from smoking weed.
No one likes to eat shark fin soup, though. There is nothing about the dish where people actually want to eat it.

the moral argument between what you do to yourself vs the animals you choose to murder, and thus eliminate food sources for everyone else are not interchangeable.

You have not made a single legitimate argument in defense of this false "culture."

you never answered if you think chewing on tiger penis is defensible "culture."
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
0
0
No one likes to eat shark fin soup, though. There is nothing about the dish where people actually want to eat it.

the moral argument between what you do to yourself vs the animals you choose to murder, and thus eliminate food sources for everyone else are not interchangeable.

You have not made a single legitimate argument in defense of this false "culture."

you never answered if you think chewing on tiger penis is defensible "culture."
Shark fin soup is part of Chinese culture as pointed out by the article from AP. Eating dog, cat and horse is also part of peoples culture that has been made illegal in the U.S.A., it's not my culture, but I find it racist and bigoted that you feel you should be able to outlaw other peoples choices on what they eat. You throw a tantrum over apex predators, but tuna or swordfish aren't part of this ban. As for tiger penis, if you want to chew on them, as far as i'm concerned, knock yourself out.
 

UglyCasanova

Lifer
Mar 25, 2001
19,275
1,355
126
Shark fin soup is part of Chinese culture as pointed out by the article from AP. Eating dog, cat and horse is also part of peoples culture that has been made illegal in the U.S.A., it's not my culture, but I find it racist and bigoted that you feel you should be able to outlaw other peoples choices on what they eat. You throw a tantrum over apex predators, but tuna or swordfish aren't part of this ban. As for tiger penis, if you want to chew on them, as far as i'm concerned, knock yourself out.
Female circumcision is part of the culture in certain muslim countries. Condemning people to a life of slavery based on the color of their skin used to be the culture in this country. Not every custom and belief is suited for the modern world that we live in.

Cutting the fin off of a shark can hardly be compared to holding down a girl and slicing off part of her genitals so that sex will always be an excruciatingly painful experience or growing rich off the backs of other human beings whom have been dehumanized and turned into your farm equipment, but it is still a practice which is having a negative impact and should be stopped. For all of Chinese history this may have been customary and a delicacy, but only in recent years has the wealth, technology, and size of China reached a point where this can have very systemic long lasting consequences. In a world of 6 - 7 billion inhabitants, "Just because I want to" doesn't cut it any longer. If humans are to survive we have to stop thinking solely on the present and start thinking about what the impact of our actions/customs/way of life has on the future.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,456
21,529
146
Shark fin soup is part of Chinese culture as pointed out by the article from AP. Eating dog, cat and horse is also part of peoples culture that has been made illegal in the U.S.A., it's not my culture, but I find it racist and bigoted that you feel you should be able to outlaw other peoples choices on what they eat. You throw a tantrum over apex predators, but tuna or swordfish aren't part of this ban. As for tiger penis, if you want to chew on them, as far as i'm concerned, knock yourself out.
Tuna and swordfish are highly regulated. Shark Fin is akin to poaching--take the animal, rip it's fin off, toss it in to die and waste everythign about the animal.

You have addressed nothing regarding this practice--how completely pointless it is.

You seem to think that "torture and waste + destruction of ecosystem" is culture. That is not culture. Seriously: go fuck yourself if you want to defend this bullshit fake culture. There is nothing spiritual, social, or religious regarding sharkfin. It's just so some shrimpy asshat can have a few ror's with his buddies about an expensive a dish they can purchase.

lol culture. you don't even believe that.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
0
0
"Rors".....? Fking bigot. Sorry if you don't like my opinions about culture and racism, but bigot assholes like you usually don't.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,456
21,529
146
"Rors".....? Fking bigot. Sorry if you don't like my opinions about culture and racism, but bigot assholes like you usually don't.
why is wantonly chewing on endangered, apex species whilst destroying the environment in which you live in order to do, considered precious culture?

you have yet to define the use of tiger penis, rhinoceros horn, or shark fin as some sort of culture.

Inuit are allowed to harvest whale because, not only do they do so in a sustainable manner--every bit of the whale is harvested and used by the entire community, the hunting process is strictly tied to the community as a spiritual and community-defining practice.

lopping off a piece of an animal and tossing it back to die, and doing so in mass numbers to feed some fat dipshit's notion of "culture" whilst destroying the ecosystem around is not culture.

lol. I'm no racist or bigot--but if you want, you can consider me a bigot against idiots.

why have you yet to provide real evidence for culture, or the fact that you actually care about this mediocre food? I and others have provided evidence to show what happens when you remove apex predators, yet all you do is counter with examples that are in no way analogous to the harvesting of shark fin.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
0
0
What you do with tiger penis is up to you, hopefully you'll try it while the tiger is still alive, it doesn't have anything to do with the complete banning of a food that's popular with a culture..... as pointed out by the AP article. You're perfectly fine with the taking of apex predators (tuna, swordfish) as long as reasonable care is taken with numbers. Yet you seem to think that Calif. can't pass the same type of sensible regulations to cover the taking of sharks to make shark fin soup. My take is that because shark fin soup is not a part of Western culture, it was banned.
http://news.sky.com/home/strange-news/article/16085330
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,385
1,517
126
What you do with tiger penis is up to you, hopefully you'll try it while the tiger is still alive, it doesn't have anything to do with the complete banning of a food that's popular with a culture..... as pointed out by the AP article. You're perfectly fine with the taking of apex predators (tuna, swordfish) as long as reasonable care is taken with numbers. Yet you seem to think that Calif. can't pass the same type of sensible regulations to cover the taking of sharks to make shark fin soup. My take is that because shark fin soup is not a part of Western culture, it was banned.
http://news.sky.com/home/strange-news/article/16085330
you don't take the fins off of tuna and swordfish and throw the rest back into the ocean.

and WTF does that link you have prove? FFS there's a ton of information regarding the negative effects of declining shark populations

srsly stop with this "it was banned because it's not part of western culture" bullshit. I can still go down to my local egg shop and buy duck eggs in varying stages of growth (eg 14 day balut, 21 day balut, etc)

 
Last edited:

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
0
0
you don't take the fins off of tuna and swordfish and throw the rest back into the ocean.

and WTF does that link you have prove? FFS there's a ton of information regarding the negative effects of declining shark populations
Do you really think that the only way people use shark is by cutting off their fins and tossing them back? I mean really ?
http://www.oceanpowermagazine.net/2010/10/11/sustainable-shark-fishing-to-be-studied-by-australias-james-cook-university/
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
0
0
The link was to show that it would be possible to farm shark the same way we do salmon/shrimp/trout etc.
 

Ns1

No Lifer
Jun 17, 2001
55,385
1,517
126
Last edited:

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
0
0
do you really think that the people harvesting shark fin soup are doing anything else?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shark_fin_trading_in_Costa_Rica
So why didn't Calif. pass a law that only "approved" or "sustainable" fins are legal instead of a blanket ban of all of them? From fair trade coffee to conflict-free diamonds there are ways to ensure that products are properly taken, my opinion is that this step wasn't taken because most Americans don't eat shark fin soup, but they do drink coffee, eat tuna and wear diamonds. This was a cultural ban, not a practical one.
 

Capt Caveman

Lifer
Jan 30, 2005
34,547
651
126
So why didn't Calif. pass a law that only "approved" or "sustainable" fins are legal instead of a blanket ban of all of them? From fair trade coffee to conflict-free diamonds there are ways to ensure that products are properly taken, my opinion is that this step wasn't taken because most Americans don't eat shark fin soup, but they do drink coffee, eat tuna and wear diamonds. This was a cultural ban, not a practical one.
Incorrect. Chinese and in favor of the ban.
 

GoSharks

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 1999
3,057
0
76
No one likes to eat shark fin soup, though. There is nothing about the dish where people actually want to eat it.
Wtf? I like it, it tastes good. That said, I'm in favor of banning shark finning where the shark is only used for its fins. I have no problem if the entire shark is used and not discarded, in a sustainable manner.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
0
0
Incorrect. Chinese and in favor of the ban.
Just curious Capt Caveman, do you also agree with this statement by zinfamous?
"It's just so some shrimpy asshat can have a few ror's with his buddies about an expensive a dish they can purchase."
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,456
21,529
146
What you do with tiger penis is up to you, hopefully you'll try it while the tiger is still alive, it doesn't have anything to do with the complete banning of a food that's popular with a culture..... as pointed out by the AP article. You're perfectly fine with the taking of apex predators (tuna, swordfish) as long as reasonable care is taken with numbers. Yet you seem to think that Calif. can't pass the same type of sensible regulations to cover the taking of sharks to make shark fin soup. My take is that because shark fin soup is not a part of Western culture, it was banned.
http://news.sky.com/home/strange-news/article/16085330
how are tuna and swordfish harvested and used?

stop ignoring reality to put forth a failed defense of this created culture.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
106,456
21,529
146
seriously. lol. we don't hate "the others" as much as you think we do.

this injection of racism on your part is the most racist BS in this thread, mononeuron.
 

ASK THE COMMUNITY