Shader model 3.0 (a civilized discussion)

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Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,170
13
81
Then just stick to the discussion and keep the "Ambigously Gay Duo for ATI" comments to yourself.
 

housecat

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
1,426
0
0
Originally posted by: Creig
Then just stick to the discussion and keep the "Ambigously Gay Duo for ATI" comments to yourself.

Can't you take a joke?
Geesh. I figured you were capable of chucking a bit at your own expense.. if you made a zinger about me I would laugh.. I have that ability.

But if you are insecure sexually I understand and will refrain from anything related to homosexuality.
There really isnt anything wrong with being homosexual you know. Seriously.
 

Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,170
13
81
Originally posted by: housecat
Originally posted by: Creig
Then just stick to the discussion and keep the "Ambigously Gay Duo for ATI" comments to yourself.

Can't you take a joke?
Geesh. I figured you were capable of chucking a bit at your own expense.. if you made a zinger about me I would laugh.. I have that ability.

But if you are insecure sexually I understand and will refrain from anything related to homosexuality.
There really isnt anything wrong with being homosexual you know. Seriously.


Here's hoping you go on "vacation" again. Permanently.

 

Pete

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
4,953
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Originally posted by: hans030390
so, it CAN be a must have. but i'm tired of people who say it is completely pointless, and the last link mentioned that the 6600gt would run UE3 games fine, because of SM3.0
I don't feel like wading through yet another of these opinion-heavy threads, but let me just say this. Mark Rein may be a stand up guy, but remember how Gabe Newell plugged ATi to kingdom come b/c of Valve's marketing relationship to ATI? Well, Epic has been an nVidia TWIMTBP member for quite some time.

Anyway, SM3 is doubtless a nice improvement over SM2, apparently makes some effects feasible (b/c branching allows for nice speedups), and will be the baseline for Xbox2. So, it's got a good future ahead of it. The question is (similar to the 9700/5900 SM2 chicken/egg conundrum), do you buy SM3 cards now for games that are at least a year away, and that current cards will probably be too slow (for us fans who even know about UE3 and some engine details, like its baseline shader model, a year ahead of time) to enjoy? I'm not so sure. I believe it's been noted that the (very early, of course) UE3 demos were running about 15-30fps on a 6800U. I wouldn't expect miracles out of a 6600GT, but I guess it'll be playable at low res, and perhaps with some of the fancier (SM3) effects disabled.

Then again, HL2 is pretty playable with both the high end and midrange cards of the first DX9/SM2 tech, the 9700P and 9500P, so maybe the 6600GT will be more playable than I think.
 

VIAN

Diamond Member
Aug 22, 2003
6,575
1
0
Until PS3 can do something that PS1.1 can't do visually, without losing half the performance. PS1.1 is alright with me.
 

biostud

Lifer
Feb 27, 2003
18,647
5,369
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Originally posted by: Lonyo
On the subject of Unreal Engine 3:
Unreal Engine 1 came with Software, Direct X and Open GL renders.

unreal 1 also had 3Dfx glide support :p

Anyway, we all know that both nvidia and ATi will support SM3.0 with their next cards, and the very least you'll need to run Unreal 3 with good quality is a GF6800GT. But most likely the next generation cards will be the ones needed to run this optimally. SM3.0 is widely used in current games and the games that come out in two years will use PS3.0 but will probably only run "decent" on current hardware.
 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
Originally posted by: Creig
Originally posted by: housecat
Originally posted by: Creig
Then just stick to the discussion and keep the "Ambigously Gay Duo for ATI" comments to yourself.

Can't you take a joke?
Geesh. I figured you were capable of chucking a bit at your own expense.. if you made a zinger about me I would laugh.. I have that ability.

But if you are insecure sexually I understand and will refrain from anything related to homosexuality.
There really isnt anything wrong with being homosexual you know. Seriously.


Here's hoping you go on "vacation" again. Permanently.

Sigh. Some people should be more concerned about hardware and less concerned about how many times they can tattle to mods like a snitch on a schoolyard.

 

nRollo

Banned
Jan 11, 2002
10,460
0
0
IMO this whole thread is getting far too emotional over what should be a simple point.

Either you don't think SM3 will make a difference over the life of these cards, or you do. It's pointless to speculate as only time will tell. We know there are a couple cases where developers have implemented nV40 only features (Riddick, Far Cry) and at least one instance where there will be a SM3 only game. (Splinter Cell)

To me, this is evidence a person is safer going with a nVidia card until the R520 cards are released, as all you "miss" is slightly higher fps at a few games.

To you, these few instances may be evidence of nothing and you may prefer the slightly higher frames at some games.

The world won't end either way, the worst that can happen is the value of your investment in X850s may drop faster if SM3 proves to be a factor.
 

Creig

Diamond Member
Oct 9, 1999
5,170
13
81
Originally posted by: Rollo
Originally posted by: Creig
Originally posted by: housecat
Originally posted by: Creig
Then just stick to the discussion and keep the "Ambigously Gay Duo for ATI" comments to yourself.

Can't you take a joke?
Geesh. I figured you were capable of chucking a bit at your own expense.. if you made a zinger about me I would laugh.. I have that ability.

But if you are insecure sexually I understand and will refrain from anything related to homosexuality.
There really isnt anything wrong with being homosexual you know. Seriously.


Here's hoping you go on "vacation" again. Permanently.

Sigh. Some people should be more concerned about hardware and less concerned about how many times they can tattle to mods like a snitch on a schoolyard.


Typical statement coming from a guy who has been permanetly banned from one website forum and was recently given a two week ban from this one.

And no, I didn't PM the Mods about housecat. But I wouldn't mind not seeing him around here anymore. I'm here to talk about computer hardware, not to be called a homosexual by some immature kid.
 

gsellis

Diamond Member
Dec 4, 2003
6,061
0
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Originally posted by: xtknight
Originally posted by: hans030390
...constant 30fps is playable...you all just think you can tell the difference, (30 and 60 you can) but did you know that movies and tv shows don't go above 30fps? yeah.

that's because movies were made to run at 24 fps. there's a difference between controlling 30 fps and watching 30 fps. watching it isn't nearly as bad as controlling it.
Fixed that for you. 24fps progressive. A pet peeve of mine with the video guys trying to emulate film all the time. ;)

 

Ackmed

Diamond Member
Oct 1, 2003
8,487
532
126
Originally posted by: housecat
Originally posted by: Ackmed
Originally posted by: housecat

A lot of risk. Needless to say, I will be selling ATI stock and buying Nvidia stock.

The fact of the matter is, ATi released the card. Making a decision on which card to buy already, is just plain silly. You dont have any clue to which will be faster. Just a bunch of guesses. You dont have any facts as to which will be better, but your bias already made up the choice for you.

Ackmed.
Another unbiased individual. LOL

Give me a break guys!!! Ackmed and Creig are like the Ambigously Gay Duo for ATI!!
Don't even pretend to act like some poor, pathetic soul being beaten down by the "mean NV crew"..

You may be getting beaten down.. like Rodney King.. but you also appear to be high on crack like him as well. ;)

I see you cant refute my comments. Instead you do what you always do, resort to personal attacks. Imagine that.

Re-read what I said, it makes sense. Its silly to make an decision NOW on what card will be faster, when you have NO idea which one will. Making a comment about how you will be selling ATi stock, and buying NV stock because the NV50 will be faster is just ignorant.

And then a few posts down you make fun of someone for already making up their mind, when you have done the same thing. :sigh:

And then you post this?

Originally posted by: housecat

OH, zing!!!!

Go Creig, go creig!

When you have nothing to say and am out of ammo, resort to childish tactics.

Seriously man..

As if what you said to me wasnt childish, and just plain rude? Wow, just wow. You call others hypocrites.. but you seem to be the most hypocritical of any posted here.

Originally posted by: Rollo

Sigh. Some people should be more concerned about hardware and less concerned about how many times they can tattle to mods like a snitch on a schoolyard.


It would be much easier to "concerned about hardware" if people didnt, a) name call, b) attack someone personally, and c) be a general @ss to people. Dont you think?
 

Drayvn

Golden Member
Jun 23, 2004
1,008
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Just wanted to bring everyones attention. Housecat, just wanted you to know how much of a hypocrit (cant spell i know :p ) you are.

On another thread here about half way down.
http://forums.anandtech.com/messageview...&STARTPAGE=3&FTVAR_FORUMVIEWTMP=Linear

"This product is too expensive and has too much advanced technology.

Why DXNext support when we barely have DX9C technology??

You are paying for technology that will be very slow when DXNext games are released!
And there probably wont be any visual difference from DX9C to DXNext.. and anything that can be done under DXNext can be done under DX9C with more passes.

I'd suggest sticking with older technology, because when this card can use its features, it will be too slow. "

"You dont need next gen cards.

Nvidia has you covered.

Pop in another 6800GT.
Can't complain when you can get next gen performance... today with SLI."

LOL ok, if you say so.

He says that DXNext is pointless and not useful (which really he means not to future proof yourself) This happens to be rumours this is supported on the next gen ATi cards, And DXNext wont probably be used for another year i think.

While on this one he says its better to be future proofed with SM3 and DX9C compatible cards, meaning nVidia and saying ATi are crap.

So wheres the fanboy?
 

hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
76
um....ok, i like how we're off topic...This isn't about DXnext and WGF2.0 and future cards ;)

Just to clear this up for some of you (as it still seems some are posting without reading alot on SM3.0) that SM3.0 does offer quite a bit more than SM2.0 does...some can't get the SM2.0=3.0 (just 3.0 is more efficient.) No, SM3.0>2.0....i think the higher number gives that away ;)

And yes, it is silly to base your buying decision on if it has SM3.0 or not...that is, unless you feel like playing all future games in SM2.0 and don't have money all the time to upgrade...and i like really had to buy a card now

Also, many say the 6600gt won't run UE3 that great (or many future games, since UE3 is signed with nvidia) BUT, i think it will do OK...I have always grown up with lower end systems, so to me, getting a constant 25fps on at least 800x600 is great...but i like more, don't need more...I do feel however that my 6600gt on future games (with sm3.0) will be comparable to how well a radeon 9200 (or lower) performs on HL2. (i would know, i had that setup). For the x800 cards on future games, i see them running comparable to maybe faster than a 6800, but that is because they are generally faster, and will be running in a less "pretty" SM2.0 mode.

About UE3 running bad with the 6800...understand that that is a DEMO....there are wonders what a whole YEAR can do with coding and optimizing. believe me, i've seen it done ;)

lets try to get away from the flame war, and housecat, i appreciate your support, but you aren't helping prevent the "war"...
 

Pete

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
4,953
0
0
hans, with all due respect, there's no such thing as "scientific proof" that you can't feel the difference above 60fps (in the twitch games), and there's also no such thing as a "constant" framerate in modern games.

Also, I suppose it's a bit pedantic, but don't confuse the SM3 spec with what nV packed into the GF6, which is beyond SM3 (namely, FP blending/buffering for HDR).
 

hans030390

Diamond Member
Feb 3, 2005
7,326
2
76
actually there is, but i admit that no game runs at a constant framerate...so thats a problem

um...and i wasn't confusing that...i actually read up on alot of sites about what SM3.0 was, and what it included that 2.0 didnt
 

bradr

Junior Member
Mar 10, 2005
4
0
0
Well I just bought all of my computer parts and received everything today and will put it together. I got a 6800 Ultra Pci-e video card and will look forward to it's 3.0 shading capabilities. *Evil Laugh*

On a side note...I'm going from a Ti200 to this card. Can't wait.
 

housecat

Banned
Oct 20, 2004
1,426
0
0
Originally posted by: hans030390
um....ok, i like how we're off topic...This isn't about DXnext and WGF2.0 and future cards ;)

Just to clear this up for some of you (as it still seems some are posting without reading alot on SM3.0) that SM3.0 does offer quite a bit more than SM2.0 does...some can't get the SM2.0=3.0 (just 3.0 is more efficient.) No, SM3.0>2.0....i think the higher number gives that away ;)

And yes, it is silly to base your buying decision on if it has SM3.0 or not...that is, unless you feel like playing all future games in SM2.0 and don't have money all the time to upgrade...and i like really had to buy a card now

Also, many say the 6600gt won't run UE3 that great (or many future games, since UE3 is signed with nvidia) BUT, i think it will do OK...I have always grown up with lower end systems, so to me, getting a constant 25fps on at least 800x600 is great...but i like more, don't need more...I do feel however that my 6600gt on future games (with sm3.0) will be comparable to how well a radeon 9200 (or lower) performs on HL2. (i would know, i had that setup). For the x800 cards on future games, i see them running comparable to maybe faster than a 6800, but that is because they are generally faster, and will be running in a less "pretty" SM2.0 mode.

About UE3 running bad with the 6800...understand that that is a DEMO....there are wonders what a whole YEAR can do with coding and optimizing. believe me, i've seen it done ;)

lets try to get away from the flame war, and housecat, i appreciate your support, but you aren't helping prevent the "war"...

We are kind of like the ambigously gay duo man.. but I'm pitching and you are recieving dude!!! ;)

Hopefully the mood can be lightened around here..
ITS SM3! It IS a good thing!
All I'm saying is that downplaying it is just retarded.

Simple fact: having SM3 is better than not having it.
The level of significance of it, is debatable.. but given equal HP, I'll take DX9C hardware.
 

Pete

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 1999
4,953
0
0
Can't ... help wading into ... the catfight....
Originally posted by: housecat
We are kind of like the ambigously gay duo man.. but I'm pitching and you are recieving dude!!! ;)

Hopefully the mood can be lightened around here..
[...]
All I'm saying is that downplaying it is just retarded.
Yeah, those comments should lighten the mood right up to surface of the sun bright.

I mean, hot.

Scratch that: flaming. (See how it all wraps around to the AGD?)

hans, mind referencing the scientific proof? Now I'm curious.
 

morulis

Member
Mar 5, 2005
89
0
0
Suppose that I can afford a X850XT PE. I think that this card will continue to play for many years regardless of Shader Model. It would be silly such an expensive card to stop playing because the xxxxx game is built on SM3 only. From this example I think that Shader Model doesn't play any role in choosing your GPU.
 

trinibwoy

Senior member
Apr 29, 2005
317
3
81
The problem with these types of threads is that the majority of people do not know how to differentiate PS3.0 from VS3.0 and generally lack any understanding of the topic at hand. Nearly everything in PS3.0 can be done in PS2.0. The same cannot be said for VS3.0. Whether or not the NV40 will be fast enough to accelerate advanced VS techniques in future titles is anybody's guess. One thing is for sure - R420 users won't have a chance to find out but if you're going to be upgrading often it doesn't matter squat.

And for those who keep saying that HDR/soft-shadowing/tone-mapping etc are part of any spec please get a clue. My advice to you is to go read some articles on TechReport, Beyond3D and 3dcenter.de before joining these threads.
 

Jeff7181

Lifer
Aug 21, 2002
18,368
11
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I still want to see a game exploit the other two features the 6800 series brought. Geometry instancing and displacement mapping. Displacement mapping seems to be very intense, so a game that makes heavy use of it probably wouldn't run very well... but I'd love to see an RTS put a relatively large amount of crap on the screen at once.