SFF Gaming PC?

[Thetech]

Sup all. I was checking out some cases because I was thinking about building
a small form factor gaming PC. Using this case or another microATX case.

Somebody once told me that it can't be done because of cooling. Keep in mind
I don't plan on building a $3000 dollar beast (unless someone wants to donate the money to me). But I thought it would be AWESOME! to have a microATX gaming computer. I know for
a small gaming machine I could buy a gaming laptop, but I thought why? I wouldn't be able to repair most of the components myself and one would be expensive compared to a desktop.

Thoughts, opinions, concerns, accomplishments!?

 

[slugg]

Those QPACK cases are actually very HUGE. I really wouldn't recommend it.

Take at look at Shuttle's barebones options and see if there's something you like. Sure, you won't be able to make the FASTEST most ridiculous machine because of cooling, but you can definitely put together something that can play all current games and it'll fit in a tiny little box. Also, there are all sorts of bags and accessories to help with the transportation of those little Shuttle boxes.

 

[Brainonska511]

They aren't that big. They are great though since they use mATX boards. You have a large selection of mATX boards, and it is thus a little more upgradeable. Plus, you can use a standard PSU in the QPack2 (and a standard one in the original if you use a short 170mm optical drive, like a Lite-On).

 

[Skott]

SFF rigs are worth looking into now since ASUS, Gigabyte, ABIT, and DFI made some mATX mobo models that overclock quite well. One thing to realize is that SFF cases have grown in size due to two things mainly. Video card length and cooling. The typical SFF case is something like the Shuttle. Problem with Shuttles are that they are very proprietary in design. Not much upgrading to be done with them compared to the DIY rigs. They are good units however. Yes, the SFF cases have grown in size but they are still much smaller than the ATX desktops and towers. If you are looking to save on some desk real estate space a SFF case is a good option. About 18-24 months ago manufacturers started rolling out mATX mobos that overclock and do it quite well. Today there is even a dual video card mATX mobo made by DFI. This mobo can do 600fsb stable. Thats pretty darn good for a mATX mobo if you ask me.

The biggest drawback the SFF cases have is their cooling abilities. Their second is that some can only fit certain length video cards. SFF cases often come with 80mm fans but some have moved on up to 120mm fans now although often its only one with any extra fans being small like 80mm. SFF cases run warmer inside due to their less cooling abilities and smaller sizes. Also their smaller size only allows for small hsf. This can be problematic for those who want to overclock their rigs. If you do not plan to overclock then hsf size will not be an issue since a retail Intel or AMD hsf will be fine. There are SFF cases that'll allow for bigger fans and any size video cards. They are larger than a typical Shuttle but they are smaller than a ATX mid tower. They'll also fit many full size ATX power supply units and components.

I have a SG03 SFF case. Its like a mini tower case. Doesnt take up much desktop space and runs pretty quiet. It has one supplied 120mm front fan and room for two 120mm fans(which I have). No rear exhaust fan but using a NT06-Lite hsf and a Corsair HX520w working together deals with exhaust problems. This case will fit any size video card. If you are into modding there is even room to mod a 120mm blowhole and fan ontop of it in the top rear back end for better case cooling. The Rogue is another larger than normal SFF case that'll allow for a lot of cooling and video card options. If you want something smaller and more portable and not interested in overclocking then look at the Microfly and the QPack units. Or you can simply get a Shuttle. There are many choices so look around and see what catches your eye. You should have a good idea of what you want to do with your SFF rig and what components you want in it before doing so however. Just like you would before looking at ATX systems.

Edit: The Qmicra I have listed in my sig is also classified as a SFF case but its one of the largest made. Still they take up less desktop real estate than ATX cases. I consider them the Cadillac of the SFF cases because they are of the highest quality and fit so much inside them. The Qmicra are not cheap in price however.

 

[gorobei]

here's my version.

BrundleFly

the main problem is the latest videocards have the PEG sockets on the top edge, which requires you to have a motherboard with the pcie slot lower down the board or you have to cut a hole in the 5.25 drive frame to route the power cable thru to the card.

the other problem is there is very little clearance between the top edge of the videocard and the psu fan grate. no aftermarket video coolers that extend past the top edge of the card will fit (no accelero s1 or s2, thermalrights, zalmans, or zerotherms.)

 

[IlllI]

if i was going to get something as large as the qpack i'd get this one instead
http://www.newegg.com/Product/...x?Item=N82E16811146043

 

[Thetech]

Awesome!
Some very informative stuff you all have posted. As far as the rig I'd like to build. I want to use an energy efficient psu like the Seasonic I
put in my last rig. I don't plan on overclocking and as far as space goes, like I said I didn't want a laptop nor did I want a mid to full size tower.
As far as cooling goes as long as it's adequate and quite. I'm just getting some good ideas together because I won't be building a rig for a few more months.
It'd be awesome to be able to move my computer from my desk area to my tv area and hook it up to the tv. I guess I want a pc that feels more like a console

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Thetech
Somebody once told me that it can't be done because of cooling.

That somebody is ignorant. Hmmm, reminds me of some guy that was banned from here...

Originally posted by: gorobei
here's my version.

BrundleFly

Ahh yes, I remember that one.

Originally posted by: Thetech
I want to use an energy efficient psu like the Seasonic
...
I don't plan on overclocking
...
As far as cooling goes as long as it's adequate and quite.

I build my LAN party rig in an X-Qpack2.

video card side (no longer have that PSU)

CPU & HDD side

action at an MLC basement LAN

CPU - Xeon E3110 (basically an E8400) overclocked to 3.6GHz cooled by a Thermaltake Golden Orb II. The cooler is barely better than the Intel stock coolers that have copper bases, but it was the best I could do for really cheap without modding like gorobei did. BTW, "cheap" means I got the cooler for free.

Video card - BFG 8800 GTS OC 512MB

motherboard - Asus P5K-VM with stock cooling

RAM OCZ Reaper HPC 4x1GB

optical - random SATA burner

HDD - 500GB SATA and a Raptor X lookin' sweet, case modded so cables run through the front and thus are hidden

PSU - currently an Antec Neo 500W (modular, made by Seasonic), previously had a couple of older BFG PSUs (those old models way too noisy) and an Antec EarthWatts 500W

Thoughts: This case has a lot of potential, and probably the best ventilation of any of the "cube" style mATX cases. The noisiest part of my system is actually the Raptor X hard drive when it seeks, otherwise it is the Thermaltake Golden Orb II. Both noise "problems" can be easily fixed by using other products.

I'm considering doing a massive upgrade to this system - GTX 260/280 card, overclocked quadcore, VelociRaptor HDD, more powerful PSU. Will it fit and work? Sure!

Of course I'm also considering rebuilding my even smaller SFF gaming rig. Just earlier today I ordered a Seasonic 350W SFX PSU from Newegg. It supposedly puts out a whopping 26A on the +12v and is a modern APFC design with 80% efficiency. I've got a Gigabyte GA31M-S2L board to go in it and some random Wolfdale CPU, random CPU HSF (maybe a Thermaltake Big Typhoon!), random HDD and the 8800 GTS from my other gaming rig. Oh yeah, I'd also do a custom front panel and use a notebook optical drive to save weight. I wonder if I can shoehorn a 9800 GTX+ in there with only 26A of power? The original rig only weighed 14 pounds! It eventually had an A64 4000+ (San Diego core) overclocked to 3.12GHz with a 7900 GTO video card.

 

[Thetech]

Originally posted by: Zap

Originally posted by: Thetech
Somebody once told me that it can't be done because of cooling.

That somebody is ignorant. Hmmm, reminds me of some guy that was banned from here...

Originally posted by: gorobei
here's my version.

BrundleFly

Ahh yes, I remember that one.

Originally posted by: Thetech
I want to use an energy efficient psu like the Seasonic
...
I don't plan on overclocking
...
As far as cooling goes as long as it's adequate and quite.

I build my LAN party rig in an X-Qpack2.

video card side (no longer have that PSU)

CPU & HDD side

action at an MLC basement LAN

CPU - Xeon E3110 (basically an E8400) overclocked to 3.6GHz cooled by a Thermaltake Golden Orb II. The cooler is barely better than the Intel stock coolers that have copper bases, but it was the best I could do for really cheap without modding like gorobei did. BTW, "cheap" means I got the cooler for free.

Video card - BFG 8800 GTS OC 512MB

motherboard - Asus P5K-VM with stock cooling

RAM OCZ Reaper HPC 4x1GB

optical - random SATA burner

HDD - 500GB SATA and a Raptor X lookin' sweet, case modded so cables run through the front and thus are hidden

PSU - currently an Antec Neo 500W (modular, made by Seasonic), previously had a couple of older BFG PSUs (those old models way too noisy) and an Antec EarthWatts 500W

Thoughts: This case has a lot of potential, and probably the best ventilation of any of the "cube" style mATX cases. The noisiest part of my system is actually the Raptor X hard drive when it seeks, otherwise it is the Thermaltake Golden Orb II. Both noise "problems" can be easily fixed by using other products.

I'm considering doing a massive upgrade to this system - GTX 260/280 card, overclocked quadcore, VelociRaptor HDD, more powerful PSU. Will it fit and work? Sure!

Of course I'm also considering rebuilding my even smaller SFF gaming rig. Just earlier today I ordered a Seasonic 350W SFX PSU from Newegg. It supposedly puts out a whopping 26A on the +12v and is a modern APFC design with 80% efficiency. I've got a Gigabyte GA31M-S2L board to go in it and some random Wolfdale CPU, random CPU HSF (maybe a Thermaltake Big Typhoon!), random HDD and the 8800 GTS from my other gaming rig. Oh yeah, I'd also do a custom front panel and use a notebook optical drive to save weight. I wonder if I can shoehorn a 9800 GTX+ in there with only 26A of power? The original rig only weighed 14 pounds! It eventually had an A64 4000+ (San Diego core) overclocked to 3.12GHz with a 7900 GTO video card.

One word: SWEEEEEEET!

 

[Zap]

Originally posted by: Thetech

Originally posted by: Zap
Of course I'm also considering rebuilding my even smaller SFF gaming rig. Just earlier today I ordered a Seasonic 350W SFX PSU from Newegg. It supposedly puts out a whopping 26A on the +12v and is a modern APFC design with 80% efficiency. I've got a Gigabyte GA31M-S2L board to go in it and some random Wolfdale CPU, random CPU HSF (maybe a Thermaltake Big Typhoon!), random HDD and the 8800 GTS from my other gaming rig. Oh yeah, I'd also do a custom front panel and use a notebook optical drive to save weight. I wonder if I can shoehorn a 9800 GTX+ in there with only 26A of power? The original rig only weighed 14 pounds! It eventually had an A64 4000+ (San Diego core) overclocked to 3.12GHz with a 7900 GTO video card.

One word: SWEEEEEEET!

I'm aiming for 12 pounds or less, and am taking a holistic approach. Since I'll be using the Big Typhoon, I gutted the rear fans as the pressure would force air out that way regardless. I'm also going to change the fan on the Big Typhoon because it is heavy from a metal fan controller built in.

I'm ditching the entire front face of the case because it weighs maybe a pound or two, and will be replacing it with a sheet of thin aluminum.

I will be using a notebook optical drive instead of a desktop drive. This should shave some decent weight off.

I'm even paying attention to the RAM. My X-Qpack2 gaming rig has four sticks of OCZ Reaper HPC memory. While that memory is visually impressive with copper heatpipes and secondary heatsinks, they are the heaviest DDR2 modules I have ever encountered. The whole set of four probably weighs 1½ pounds or so. I got some Kingston ValueRAM that has no heat spreaders (memory doesn't need them unless you are super-overvolting them) and the PCB is about half the height of normal ones. This 4GB dual channel kit weighs less than almost any single module with heatspreaders (perhaps excepting for Ballistix, which are really lightweight).

Maybe after I'm done I'll bring it in to work to weigh on the digital shipping scale, for accuracy.