What the hell would you know about working unless you are counting your effort to try to collect unemployment across State lines?
What the hell would you know about working unless you are counting your effort to try to collect unemployment across State lines?
If you are disagreeing with what I posted, and I'll give you more credit than that for now, provide your evidence.
Regarding New Orleans, it's one of my favorites. Commander's Palace is a nice restaurant; I love red beans and rice; the best bread pudding ever is there; the best bananas foster is there where it was invented at Brennan's; beignet's are nice; the best chicken sauce I have had was at K-Paul's, where I met Paul Prodhomme. I still stand by what I said.
sactoking
Diamond Member
- Sep 24, 2007
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There are problems with this, and I'll illustrate two of them:
1) Let's assume that everyone lives in the municipality in which they work (so that the live/work dichotomy completely applies to the minimum wage). What makes a place like San Francisco so expensive? The ultimate, root cause is lack of land. San Francisco exists on a smallish peninsula and cannot expand beyond its borders like a city in New Mexico can.
Given the climatic appeal and concentration of tech jobs this lack of real property drives real property prices sky high. With astronomical real property prices workers have to earn a commensurate wage to afford to live. Not only are mortgages and rent higher as a direct result but things like food, gas, and entertainment are also more expensive as a secondary result of the lack of land.
Let's assume, for the sake of academic thought, that the minimum wage would need to be $25 per hour for a Carl's Jr worker to afford to live in SF. If fast food is paying people off the street with little appreciable skill $25/hr there's no way they'll be able to sell that Famous Star for $2.99. Food prices will rise as a result, which will precipitate a need to increase the minimum wage again to compensate. It's a self-perpetuating cycle, though one that theoretically should eventually equilibriate.
2) Let's assume that everyone does not live in the municipality in which they work. How would you propose the minimum wage be regulated? If San Francisco has a minimum wage of $25/hr and Richmond has a minimum wage of $10.24/hr what should someone who lives in Richmond but works in San Francisco be paid? Do you pay them the San Francisco minimum wage? If you do you'd be incentivizing people to live in less-expensive outlying areas which not only would deprive those municipalities of workers, creating a self-perpetuating cycle, but it would also give them impression that a wealthy town like San Francisco "imports" its menial and low-skill labor.
Do you pay them the Richmond minimum wage instead, since that's what their cost of living should reflect? Not only is that "unfair" since two people working side-by-side would have two different minimum wages rates but you'd also be encouraging an increase in wasteful government as every municipality would need payroll inspectors to ensure that all businesses are paying a minimum wage commensurate with each individual employee's minimum wage at their residence. If you're a tech company in San Jose (or the San Jose "insector") how do you keep up with employees coming from San Francisco, Sunnyvale, Richmond, Palo Alto, Oakland, Half Moon Bay, Walnut Creek, Benicia, Martinez, Napa, Lodi, Stockton, Manteca, Tracy, Hayward, Fremont, Pleasonton, Dublin, Santa Clara, San Mateo, Vacaville, and a multitude of other places?
halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
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Originally Posted by dmcowen674
At $10hr he is doing $6hr better than someone working for Federal $7 min wage.
How's that?
Two jobs at $7hr he is making $14hr.
Two jobs at $10hr he is making $20 for a net difference of $6hr
No wonder you Republicans are so screwed up, you all fail basic math.
It's the fact that you may be borderline retarded, rather than rich people, that is your main impediment in life.
If i work 1 hour at $10/hr and 1 hour at $20/hr, my hourly rate at the end is $15/hr.
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halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weighted_mean
The fact you don't realize the idiocy of what you put forth is truly astounding.
A fallacy in your argument is that minimum wages and low wages are only a small fraction of wages. Even if that burger doubled in price, it's not a problem for buyers.
But the burger doesn't double in price. Instead, Carl's Jr. competes with a burger bar in Macy's that charges $10 to $60 (for a burger with foie gras and shaved truffles).
Let's make it even simpler for the pea sized brains out there.
If he only worked one job for one hr for $3 he has $3
He is working two jobs so he has $6
What is wrong with Republican brains?
Fallacy? My point was simple. San Fran, at it's current unemployment level (which is above the national metropolitan average) should not be doing anything to encourage further unemployment. This decision does this IMO.
I further commented on how many Californian cities have the worst unemployment in the country, with no more point than "that's interesting." But being the proud fanatic you are you probably saw an implied jab at Democrats where there was none. Supposed I should have expected this, you historically are that predictable.
You also provided a very obvious fallacy of apples to oranges when you pointed out the completely irrelevant fact that those areas happen to be Right-leaning. I pointed out said fact was irrelevant, as many right-leaning areas also have the lowest unemployment in the nation. Now you say I'm trolling.
And just to be absolutely clear, my point in this post is that you're utterly full of shit.
You're right about one thing - it doesn't matter that some of the other areas are conservative. However, the point you are trying to make is dubious at best. The topic of the thread is a high minimum wage in the city of San Francisco, not the entire region that your data refers to. The fact is, a $10 minimum wage affects very few jobs in the actual city of San Francisco. Of the few jobs affected, the bulk would be in retail businesses, but commercial space is still at a premium in SF (retail vacancy rates are among the lowest in the US), so any business going under will promptly be replaced by another. If the high minimum wage were to be extended to other areas, especially certain parts of the east bay, it might actually increase unemployment, but it's highly doubtful that it would do so in SF. In any event, your data certainly doesn't prove it because it's apples to oranges.
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It's already obvious how much you Republican lackeys love fuzzy math, links to it not necessary.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
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Nothing, it is the fact that you're an ignorant idiot who keeps getting called on his stupidity and then you try to shift the argument trying to cover your tracks. In the end, you end up looking like an even bigger jackass than you are, which is quite a feat.
halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
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A fallacy in your argument is that minimum wages and low wages are only a small fraction of wages. Even if that burger doubled in price, it's not a problem for buyers.
But the burger doesn't double in price. Instead, Carl's Jr. competes with a burger bar in Macy's that charges $10 to $60 (for a burger with foie gras and shaved truffles).
I don't think you'll win arguing about relative merit of small min wage increases - this is still going on back and forth in academia. Generally you'll see a decrease in total hours worked for the people whose wage goes up as the result. The big question is what's the impact on total income of the people affected - i.e. is the increase in wage enough to offset the decrease in hours worked.
(previous min wage + increase) * (previous hours worked - hours cut) ?> (previous min wage) * (previous hours worked)
Generally the target of the policy is to increase the incomes of the people affected, so you'll be looking for strictly greater in the above. From the papers I've read, it depends.
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halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
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Wow you either just went off deep end trolling or your IQ is literally double digits, as not to grasp the concept of weighted average.
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halik
Lifer
- Oct 10, 2000
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Ok - first off - you did not specify how long he worked at the second job. If we are to assume he worked the same amount of time at the other job - 1 hour - then, yes he has $6. However - this has nothing to do with your original claim and has no frame of reference in terms of a wage increase.I am not disagreeing that he will make more money I am PROVING that the minimum wage increase of $3 an hour does not net him an increase of $6 an hour if he is making minimum wage
Don't you think it's telling that no one will help support your claim? We do have other well known Democratic supporters in this thread.
Hell - lets even call on a couple
Craig234 and Ausm - do you think dmcowen's claim is correct as stated below:
If you can find ANY poster here that agrees with you, feel free to involve them
rudder
Lifer
- Nov 9, 2000
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Do you look down on people who don't earn $10 an hour? If I made $10/hour and it wasn't enough... I would do something about it. Namely move out of one of the most expensive cities in the U.S. I certainly wouldn't skate thought live hoping the government keeps raising minimum wage so I can earn more money.
sactoking
Diamond Member
- Sep 24, 2007
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The problems in your argument are many, but here's just two:
1) It's not a problem for wealthy buyers but it sure as hell is a problem for minimum wage buyers. Someone with $100,000,000 is a hell of a lot less likely to eat at McDonald's than someone living paycheck-to-paycheck at minimum wage.
2) Places like Carl's Jr and McDonald's only compete with that Macy's insofar as they both serve hamburgers. They serve completely different demographics in reality. Ask the folks at Fleur de Lys, Absinthe, La Folie, Wexler's, or Gary Danko if they compete with Burger King and you'll get laughed at.
My god, really? Took you all day to realize it.
Like I said, there is the problem, you guys have never had to work one job much less two so you have no clue.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
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I'm willing to bet I earned more than you while taking advantage of overly generous (to the point of ridiculous) government programs which pay people not to work. And now that I am working again because those greedy government bastards cut off my unemployment, I'm willing to bet I make a lot more than you, shit-eating moron.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,563
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- 81
If the price of consumer goods doubling is not a problem for buyers, why do Democrats care so much about the cost of living?
Again, D: at Craig's absolute stupidity.
BoberFett
Lifer
- Oct 9, 1999
- 37,563
- 9
- 81
Yes, actually, Democrats despise the people they claim to be respresenting. The reason they are so liberal is because they believe the poor and downtrodden need their help because they cannot fend for themselves. It's extremely demeaning, and serves the dual purpose of providing the elitist liberal with power and feeding their massive egos.
JSt0rm
Lifer
- Sep 5, 2000
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A fallacy in your argument is that minimum wages and low wages are only a small fraction of wages. Even if that burger doubled in price, it's not a problem for buyers.
But the burger doesn't double in price. Instead, Carl's Jr. competes with a burger bar in Macy's that charges $10 to $60 (for a burger with foie gras and shaved truffles).
Is that seriously a slab of foie gras on top of that burger? I'm going there...
All day? This is a compeltely new claim and is completely different from your original claim. This claim is that he now has $3 more. Your original claim was that he was making $6 an hour more.If you want to take your more recent example he is still only making $3 an hour more
Edit: Actually you are simply doubling the amount of time he worked. The amount of time he worked has 0 bearing on the $ per hour earned so this example has even less to do with your original claim than I initially thought
I also find it interesting how you constantly resort to insults and generalizations in your posts towards mine. Is that how you support arguments? Seriously I want to know. At no point did I insult you or demean you or make unsubstantiated claims about your past. Are you so incsecure about your claims that you instantly resort to mud flinging when someone challenges your claim?
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I make more money just posting back to worthless ass then what you whore off the Gubermint in a week..GUARANTEED.
IndyColtsFan
Lifer
- Sep 22, 2007
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As I mentioned earlier, Dave keeps shifting his argument as he gets called out on his incredible stupidity and owned for the previous "points" he tried to make. This is nothing new and is par for the course for him. There's a reason his nickname here is "McOWNED" and there's also a reason he has a list of people he ignores in his sig -- those are the people (I'm one) who constantly called him on his crap.
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