Sex, dating, marriage, and the bible

[JSSheridan]

Here's an interpretation that might work. The intent of the restrictions placed on promiscuous activity is so that we do not treat other people as sexual objects. Rather, we ought to treat all people with respect. As long as you are not using a person as a means for your own pleasure, but your intent is instead that you are doing something that is good and healthy for the other person, then it is not immoral behavior.

I don't necessarily agree with the above interpretation, but I understand the argument.

 

[patentman]

On Easter Sunday the minister at my brothers church gave a wonderful sermon about the meaning of Easter. Seems off topic, but it is not really. He reminded us that "god so loved the world that he gave his only son..." and how this passage of the Bible means that Jesus died on the cross to take away the sins of man. That is, he died and paid the price for man's sin so that we would not have to pay that price ourselves, and so long as we believe in god and accept Jesus in our hearts, that god would love us and not turn us away.

God made us in his image, but it was not a perfect image, else we would all be godly. Thus, while god encourages us through the bible to act in accordance with gods teachings, nothing we do will take us away from god, except not believing in god.

So, is premarital sex/heavy petting a sin? Probably. Will it take you away from god such that god will deny you passage to heaven? Very Very Unlikely.

That is about as outspoken about religion as you will ever hear me get. Feel how you want, believe in what you want. I know the path I am taking.

 

[LEDominator]

so did anyone ever come up with a definative answer?

 

[OpenThirdEye]

Woah... epic resurrection!

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: HotChic
Huh, this is the second time in two days this question has been asked to me, interestingly enough.

I think that you could probably extrapolate a lot from the Old Testament examples if you tried hard enough and took enough things out of context. The problem is, there's simply no wiggle room in the New Testament at all.

NT example:
1 Cor 7:9 But if they cannot control themselves, they should marry, for it is better to marry than to burn with passion.

That's pretty vague... OK, so it's better to marry. Does that make it WRONG to not control yourself, or to burn with passion?

The only thing with no wiggle room is your interpretation.
Remember, there is not a single puritan or Christian fundamentalist in the Bible.

 

[TruePaige]

Originally posted by: LEDominator
so did anyone ever come up with a definative answer?

Of course not.

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: Eli
<blockquote>quote:
Originally posted by: SagaLore
<blockquote>quote:
Originally posted by: rockyct
Matt 5:27 "You have heard that it is said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart." That's Jesus saying this, not Paul, so the issue is pretty clear.</blockquote>

This verse is taken WAY out of context. If you look at the entire passage, he is pointing out the hypocrisy of those condemning others as being sinful. Verse 30 he says, "And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away." Jesus is obviously using metaphor in this entire passage and just making a point.</blockquote>:laugh:

It actually says that in the Bible? Wow. lol

Originally posted by: HotChic
Then come together again so that Satan will not tempt you because of your lack of self-control.[/i]

In other words, get it on!

Eil,

You and I think soo much alike it's scary LOL.

 

[DangerAardvark]

Originally posted by: OpenThirdEye
Woah... epic resurrection!

Does that mean the statute of limitations the whole "not trashing" the thread thing has run out?

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: TruePaige

Originally posted by: LEDominator
so did anyone ever come up with a definative answer?

Of course not.

i found this at fark or slashdot or somewhere a couple of weeks ago, the entire site is a riot.

Text

content is likely NSFW, no pics, but graphic text.

 

[IEC]

Originally posted by: DangerAardvark

Originally posted by: OpenThirdEye
Woah... epic resurrection!

Does that mean the statute of limitations the whole "not trashing" the thread thing has run out?

No.

Amusingly, I just finished writing a paper on the hermeneutical task (i.e. what interpretive strategies do we use to approach scripture, what does it mean to say a passage is authoritative, etc.)

I'll contribute to this thread by posting the four modes of appeal to scripture as presented by Richard B. Hays in The Moral Vision of the New Testament.

1. Rules are direct commandments or prohibitions of specific behaviors.
2. Principles are general frameworks of moral consideration by which particular decisions about action are to be governed.
3. Paradigms are stories or summary accounts of characters who model exemplary conduct or negative paradigms of reprehensible conduct
4. A symbolic world creates the perceptual categories through which we interpret reality.

Examples (from Moral Vision):

1. NT prohibition of divorce (Mark 10:2-12 and parallels)

2. Linking of Deut. 6:4-5 and Lev. 19:18 to form Jesus double love commandment (Mark 12:28-31 + parallels)

3. Parable of Good Samaritan answers "who is my neighbor." Ananias and Sapphira (Acts 5:1-11) are examples of a negative paradigm.

4. Romans 1:19-32 offers a diagnosis of the fallen human condition without explicitly articulating moral directives

***

This is but a glimpse into the overall task of interpreting scripture and why sometimes we can't take things out of context or assert them as rules when they are not explicitly rules. So what I'd say is that in a relationship "heavy petting" would probably be questionable at best... since I fail to see how it would not lead to lustful behavior or perhaps be a result of lustful behavior...

 

[IEC]

SO - I invite my fellow christian folk and agnostics whom are biblically literate, to put together a scripture based proposal that sexual activity before marriage is actually okay.

Any such proposal could not be based on scripture, because scripture expressly forbids fornication as a rule and also forbids it in principle.

Why? Because in the past dancing with anyone of the opposite sex was considered immoral, but now many churches consider it okay as long as it isn't promiscuous. Shrimp and pork was bad at one time, but we eat it now without thinking twice. So lets revisit this topic from a fresh perspective.

Principle. What goes into my stomach will not make me unclean, but what comes from my heart can make me unclean. Comparing sexual activity to dietary restrictions is comparing (insert random object) to (insert other random object).

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

SO - I invite my fellow christian folk and agnostics whom are biblically literate, to put together a scripture based proposal that sexual activity before marriage is actually okay.

Any such proposal could not be based on scripture, because scripture expressly forbids fornication as a rule and also forbids it in principle.

Why? Because in the past dancing with anyone of the opposite sex was considered immoral, but now many churches consider it okay as long as it isn't promiscuous. Shrimp and pork was bad at one time, but we eat it now without thinking twice. So lets revisit this topic from a fresh perspective.

Principle. What goes into my stomach will not make me unclean, but what comes from my heart can make me unclean. Comparing sexual activity to dietary restrictions is comparing (insert random object) to (insert other random object).

So how does premarital sex make you unclean??

 

[thecoolnessrune]

Originally posted by: SagaLore
<blockquote>quote:
Originally posted by: angminas
Looking for things in the Bible so you can make things look a particular way is completely against the entire purpose of the book, unless you're doing it to show how somebody else's doing it is foolish. (Proverbs 18:2) Haven't you seen enough people misuse scripture yet? (2Cor11:12-15) Will you follow the example of unwise men rather than righteous men? (Proverbs 12:26) Don't you have more respect for God than to use his gift in this manner? (Proverbs 3:5-7, 24:9)

As you already seem to know, there are plenty of places in the Bible that say sexual activity before marriage is NOT okay. Will you ignore those clear warnings, and invite other Christians to join you? You're playing with fire. (Matthew 5:19) If you really are a Christian, you are being tempted. "Therefore submit to God. Resist the devil and he will flee from you." (James 4:7)

For anyone who actually wants to learn more about what the Bible has to say on the subject, here is a very well-written article on my church's website.</blockquote>

I invite you to put together a solid argument using scripture in its proper context. The verse needs to be direct about what activity is acceptable, and it needs to be spoken by Jesus.

I can't contribute anything right now, as I'm in the middle of class, but I will add this important verse:

John 1:1-2

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

The same was in the beginning with God.

If you choose to detract any part of the Bible because it is not directly spoken by God, then you are denouncing the teachings of the entire Bible.

2 Timothy 3:16-17

All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[KeithTalent]

Wrong forum!

KT

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

SO - I invite my fellow christian folk and agnostics whom are biblically literate, to put together a scripture based proposal that sexual activity before marriage is actually okay.

Any such proposal could not be based on scripture, because scripture expressly forbids fornication as a rule and also forbids it in principle.

Why? Because in the past dancing with anyone of the opposite sex was considered immoral, but now many churches consider it okay as long as it isn't promiscuous. Shrimp and pork was bad at one time, but we eat it now without thinking twice. So lets revisit this topic from a fresh perspective.

Principle. What goes into my stomach will not make me unclean, but what comes from my heart can make me unclean. Comparing sexual activity to dietary restrictions is comparing (insert random object) to (insert other random object).

So how does premarital sex make you unclean??

"Matt 5:27 "You have heard that it is said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

SO - I invite my fellow christian folk and agnostics whom are biblically literate, to put together a scripture based proposal that sexual activity before marriage is actually okay.

Any such proposal could not be based on scripture, because scripture expressly forbids fornication as a rule and also forbids it in principle.

Why? Because in the past dancing with anyone of the opposite sex was considered immoral, but now many churches consider it okay as long as it isn't promiscuous. Shrimp and pork was bad at one time, but we eat it now without thinking twice. So lets revisit this topic from a fresh perspective.

Principle. What goes into my stomach will not make me unclean, but what comes from my heart can make me unclean. Comparing sexual activity to dietary restrictions is comparing (insert random object) to (insert other random object).

So how does premarital sex make you unclean??

"Matt 5:27 "You have heard that it is said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Premarital sex is not adultery....

 

[legoman666]

Why in the hell are you all looking in a 2000 year old book for relationship advice?

 

[xSauronx]

Originally posted by: legoman666
Why in the hell are you all looking in a 2000 year old book for relationship advice?

this is OT, search for archived YAGT threads and you'll see why

 

[Fenixgoon]

just as a minor comment (because i don't intend on getting into this thread.

the term "heavy petting" absolutely *cracks* me up!!! :laugh:

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

SO - I invite my fellow christian folk and agnostics whom are biblically literate, to put together a scripture based proposal that sexual activity before marriage is actually okay.

Any such proposal could not be based on scripture, because scripture expressly forbids fornication as a rule and also forbids it in principle.

Why? Because in the past dancing with anyone of the opposite sex was considered immoral, but now many churches consider it okay as long as it isn't promiscuous. Shrimp and pork was bad at one time, but we eat it now without thinking twice. So lets revisit this topic from a fresh perspective.

Principle. What goes into my stomach will not make me unclean, but what comes from my heart can make me unclean. Comparing sexual activity to dietary restrictions is comparing (insert random object) to (insert other random object).

So how does premarital sex make you unclean??

"Matt 5:27 "You have heard that it is said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Premarital sex is not adultery....

Having sex with a woman who is not your wife is the definition of adultery.

edit: correction, it's the biblical definition of adultery.

 

[rockyct]

Originally posted by: xSauronx

Originally posted by: legoman666
Why in the hell are you all looking in a 2000 year old book for relationship advice?

this is OT, search for archived YAGT threads and you'll see why

if only someone could bump a skywalker66 thread up.

 

[LEDominator]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

SO - I invite my fellow christian folk and agnostics whom are biblically literate, to put together a scripture based proposal that sexual activity before marriage is actually okay.

Any such proposal could not be based on scripture, because scripture expressly forbids fornication as a rule and also forbids it in principle.

Why? Because in the past dancing with anyone of the opposite sex was considered immoral, but now many churches consider it okay as long as it isn't promiscuous. Shrimp and pork was bad at one time, but we eat it now without thinking twice. So lets revisit this topic from a fresh perspective.

Principle. What goes into my stomach will not make me unclean, but what comes from my heart can make me unclean. Comparing sexual activity to dietary restrictions is comparing (insert random object) to (insert other random object).

So how does premarital sex make you unclean??

"Matt 5:27 "You have heard that it is said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

I always wondered about that. Did he mean it figuratively or literally; ie some sort of an in principle thing to make people think about their actions?

 

[thepd7]

Originally posted by: LEDominator

Originally posted by: thepd7

"Matt 5:27 "You have heard that it is said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

I always wondered about that. Did he mean it figuratively or literally; ie some sort of an in principle thing to make people think about their actions?

haha good question, you could ask that about 90% of the gospels. Jesus said to cut off your arm if it causes you to sin (as someone mentioned earlier). He also said to forgive someone 70x7 times. Obviously we are called to forgive more tha 490 times if it comes to that.

I believe it's about the heart. If you have lust in your heart it is a pollution. Just like saying "I wanted to kill this person but I didn't" still means you had a lot of hate in your heart a situation where you lust after someone but don't necessarily act on it doesn't absolve you of wrongdoing.

God is love, not lust. Hatred toward someone so much that you want to kill them is obviously sinful as well. I would say that the inner thoughts/desires very much affect a relationship with God.

note: I am certainly not an expert and completely fallible, this is all how I feel about that particular verse, I would love to hear any other viewpoints whether they agree or disagree with mine.

 

[Throckmorton]

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: thepd7

Originally posted by: Throckmorton

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner

SO - I invite my fellow christian folk and agnostics whom are biblically literate, to put together a scripture based proposal that sexual activity before marriage is actually okay.

Any such proposal could not be based on scripture, because scripture expressly forbids fornication as a rule and also forbids it in principle.

Why? Because in the past dancing with anyone of the opposite sex was considered immoral, but now many churches consider it okay as long as it isn't promiscuous. Shrimp and pork was bad at one time, but we eat it now without thinking twice. So lets revisit this topic from a fresh perspective.

Principle. What goes into my stomach will not make me unclean, but what comes from my heart can make me unclean. Comparing sexual activity to dietary restrictions is comparing (insert random object) to (insert other random object).

So how does premarital sex make you unclean??

"Matt 5:27 "You have heard that it is said, 'Do not commit adultery.' But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

Premarital sex is not adultery....

Having sex with a woman who is not your wife is the definition of adultery.

edit: correction, it's the biblical definition of adultery.

According to who?

 

[SagaLore]

Originally posted by: Spartan Niner
Any such proposal could not be based on scripture, because scripture expressly forbids fornication as a rule and also forbids it in principle.

Show us where. If its expressly forbidden, then it will be a clear statement. Please provide a sample of verses from the same chapter.