Severed fingers of 5 hostages delivered to U.S. officials in Iraq

[brandonb]

Originally posted by: JD50
Just for the record, here are the disgusting pieces of filth that are making excuses for the torture of some security guards, and some actually seem a little happy about it.

Originally posted by: brandonb

I'm sure there's plenty more to come.

Sure, I'll make it clear for you. Since you had to quote people who you disagree with, and make personal attacks against them. Let me reiterate for you in case you don't understand.

I believe people who invade another country deserve to be shot at and lose fingers, even if those invaders come in with uniform (military) or plain clothes (civilians/mercenaries). They are not there for the interests of the natural born citizens of the country, they are there for profit. To rape, pillage, and steal. I don't care if these invaders are from Go-Go Good Team USA, Muslims in Kosovo, Hugo Chavez, Illegal Immigrants in the USA. No matter how you want to package up this invasion as a good thing and give it to the Iraqi's with a Bow on top, its still an invasion, and the people who are suffering are Iraqi's. If a few people get caught in the middle (be it security contractors) which also from time to time shoot up market places leaving 21 Iraqi's dead "on accident", I couldn't care less if those people got kidnapped and lost a few fingers.

Call me a dirt bag, filth or whatever, to me, if you support the Iraqi war, then its my opinion you are the idiot whos brainwashed by the neocon controlled media outlets. But lets not take it to personal attacks. Ok?

 

[Socio]

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: JD50
Just for the record, here are the disgusting pieces of filth that are making excuses for the torture of some security guards, and some actually seem a little happy about it.

Originally posted by: brandonb

I'm sure there's plenty more to come.

Call me a dirt bag, filth or whatever, to me, if you support the Iraqi war, then its my opinion you are the idiot whos brainwashed by the neocon controlled media outlets. But lets not take it to personal attacks. Ok?

ROFL!
You make a personel attack "you are the idiot" then say: "But lets not take it to personal attacks"

Seriously times like these I wish I had the power to split the US in half and move all the US military hating, illegal immigrant loving, terrorist sympathizing socialism supporting Democrats to the left side of the nation and all the US sovereignty loving, freedom desiring, kiss no ones butt ever Republicans on the right side. Which of course includes the entire US military force since it is seen by so many as a right winger terrorist organization.

This way, these Democrats can tax to death, cower, appease and kiss the butt of anyone that tells them to like they wish and we can at least have right half of the US remain strong, free and sovereign.

 

[brandonb]

Originally posted by: Socio

ROFL!
You make a personel attack "you are the idiot" then say: "But lets not take it to personal attacks"

Seriously times like these I wish I had the power to split the US in half and move all the US military hating, illegal immigrant loving, terrorist sympathizing socialism supporting Democrats to the left side of the nation and all the US sovereignty loving, freedom desiring, kiss no ones butt ever Republicans on the right side. Which of course includes the entire US military force since it is seen by so many as a right winger terrorist organization.

This way, these Democrats can tax to death, cower, appease and kiss the butt of anyone that tells them to like they wish and we can at least have right half of the US remain strong, free and sovereign.

I didn't call him an idiot. I said if he supports the war, then he's an idiot. I have no idea if he supports the war or not.

Also theres more than just those two groups to seperate. I happen to be a conservative nationalist. I couldn't live with either group because:

Republicans aren't freedom loving. They are freedom loving if you happen to agree with them and their ways, but if you don't, well, they'll send in the Apache to take care of you. Democrats are no different. Freedom is just a smokescreen. What they really mean to say is you are free to work, pay taxes, watch football on Sunday and STFU while we do what we want.

 

[Sinsear]

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: DarkThinker


But beyond that scope...Muslims here and elsewhere have jack sht of an obligation to go face anyone. We are supposed to go tell the extremists "Don't fight this and don't do that just be peaceful...." while the powerful nations of the world wield their hi-tech weapons and massive armies in and around their countries while they install a puppet regime here and another there?... How would you feel about an Arabic army in your town, in your country?
So I don't think so buddy....let the European countries and this country stop their meddling in the ME and pull all their troops altogether, ONLY THEN maybe the Muslims of this country and other countries would have an incentive to preach peace to their brethren in the ME...but as long as there are foreign troops and people by force on Arabic and Muslim land.....no one is moving a finger from whom I know.

LMAO; We all pull out from ME affairs they'll be further back in the stone age than they already are. Yeah, ME lands were once the center of civilization and a beacon of wisdom, invention, and life. Now they are nothing but a shit hole that happens to have oil.

LOL....you know what? If we want to go into the stone or even the Ice Age ...just leave us the fsck alone and mind your own God damn business...we do what ever we want on our land and countries.

Stop flying airpalanes into our buildings.

 

[DarkThinker]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: DarkThinker


But beyond that scope...Muslims here and elsewhere have jack sht of an obligation to go face anyone. We are supposed to go tell the extremists "Don't fight this and don't do that just be peaceful...." while the powerful nations of the world wield their hi-tech weapons and massive armies in and around their countries while they install a puppet regime here and another there?... How would you feel about an Arabic army in your town, in your country?
So I don't think so buddy....let the European countries and this country stop their meddling in the ME and pull all their troops altogether, ONLY THEN maybe the Muslims of this country and other countries would have an incentive to preach peace to their brethren in the ME...but as long as there are foreign troops and people by force on Arabic and Muslim land.....no one is moving a finger from whom I know.

LMAO; We all pull out from ME affairs they'll be further back in the stone age than they already are. Yeah, ME lands were once the center of civilization and a beacon of wisdom, invention, and life. Now they are nothing but a shit hole that happens to have oil.

LOL....you know what? If we want to go into the stone or even the Ice Age ...just leave us the fsck alone and mind your own God damn business...we do what ever we want on our land and countries.

Stop flying airpalanes into our buildings.

:disgust:
Why don't you just do this forum a big favor and go flying out of a window? It would be appreciated...

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: Skoorb
A massive percentage of Iraqis do not want the US there and consider it a mistake.

source?

May 9, 2007 - More than half of the members of Iraq's parliament rejected for the first time on Tuesday the continuing occupation of their country. The U.S. media ignored the story.

.
.
.
Iraq's separatists also oppose setting a timetable for ending the U.S. occupation, preferring the addition of more American troops to secure their regime. They favor privatizing Iraq's oil and gas and decentralizing petroleum operations and revenue distribution.

But public opinion is squarely with Iraq's nationalists. According to a poll by the University of Maryland's Project on International Public Policy Attitudes, majorities of all three of Iraq's major ethno-sectarian groups support a unified Iraq with a strong central government. For at least two years, poll after poll has shown that large majorities of Iraqis of all ethnicities and sects want the United States to set a timeline for withdrawal, even though (in the case of Baghdad residents), they expect the security situation to deteriorate in the short term as a result.

That's nationalism, and it remains the central if unreported motivation for many Iraqis, both within the nascent government and on the streets.

Hmmm, I guess you nave no argument or sources to contradict these sudies? Then I can only assume you agree.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74
Mercenaries, by definition, are also civilians.

It's amazing that so many of you condone the kidnap, torture, and maiming of American security guards; but then you cry foul when Osama bin Fvckwad doesnt get enough sleep in Gitmo.

It's also disgusting.

Selective convictions are anything but...

Your so obviously the one whose convictions are selective.

In the strictest techinal sense a mercenary may be a civilian, but they are there to directly support the military effort for no other reason then their own monetary benifit.

I'm not going to get excited and send my sons and daughters to war to protect what you think are the rights of mercenaries. They knew the risks going in, but their greed got the better of them.

Try as you might to imply ohterwise, this has no connection to our goverments use of torture.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: DarkThinker


But beyond that scope...Muslims here and elsewhere have jack sht of an obligation to go face anyone. We are supposed to go tell the extremists "Don't fight this and don't do that just be peaceful...." while the powerful nations of the world wield their hi-tech weapons and massive armies in and around their countries while they install a puppet regime here and another there?... How would you feel about an Arabic army in your town, in your country?
So I don't think so buddy....let the European countries and this country stop their meddling in the ME and pull all their troops altogether, ONLY THEN maybe the Muslims of this country and other countries would have an incentive to preach peace to their brethren in the ME...but as long as there are foreign troops and people by force on Arabic and Muslim land.....no one is moving a finger from whom I know.

LMAO; We all pull out from ME affairs they'll be further back in the stone age than they already are. Yeah, ME lands were once the center of civilization and a beacon of wisdom, invention, and life. Now they are nothing but a shit hole that happens to have oil.

No I disagree. A country needs to be able to control its own land, its own resources by its OWN people. When the ME countries were the center of civilization they controlled their own destiny.

China isn't becoming more and more powerful because it is hosting US military bases, or foreign bases from other country. Interestingly enough, the 90ish years of foreign concessions that they had to give European countries didn't help advance them in the way you think.

I know you may come up with three counter examples of Korea Japan and Germany. Here is a hint - they don't have oil to the level that the Middle East does. Our interest in the middle east is controlled by our desire to control resources. Any desire to "help" them is secondary to this. And IMO its better that people help themselves.

The day the Middle East becomes a force in on an international level is the day that Arab countries control their own land and does not host any foreign bases.

 

[magomago]

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: DarkThinker

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Originally posted by: DarkThinker


But beyond that scope...Muslims here and elsewhere have jack sht of an obligation to go face anyone. We are supposed to go tell the extremists "Don't fight this and don't do that just be peaceful...." while the powerful nations of the world wield their hi-tech weapons and massive armies in and around their countries while they install a puppet regime here and another there?... How would you feel about an Arabic army in your town, in your country?
So I don't think so buddy....let the European countries and this country stop their meddling in the ME and pull all their troops altogether, ONLY THEN maybe the Muslims of this country and other countries would have an incentive to preach peace to their brethren in the ME...but as long as there are foreign troops and people by force on Arabic and Muslim land.....no one is moving a finger from whom I know.

LMAO; We all pull out from ME affairs they'll be further back in the stone age than they already are. Yeah, ME lands were once the center of civilization and a beacon of wisdom, invention, and life. Now they are nothing but a shit hole that happens to have oil.

LOL....you know what? If we want to go into the stone or even the Ice Age ...just leave us the fsck alone and mind your own God damn business...we do what ever we want on our land and countries.

Stop flying airpalanes into our buildings.

He didn't do that at all. Furthermore, I doubt he was good friends with those who did that. I doubt he had any idea at all. I doubt he crossed paths with them randomly. That is such a stupid comment.

Should I walk up to a white American solider and say "stop blowing up our buildings and refer to our children as collateral damage?"

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Socio
The really scary part is some members on this forum as well as a good portion of the American public are starting to sympathize, even support terrorism against us and others, it is like a mass Stockholm Syndrome pandemic!

I task you, or anyone here, to find any evidence that someone supports terrorism against us.

Trust me, you'll be searching for a good long time.

9/11 = terrorism

al-Qaeda suicide bombing a market = terrorism

IED bombing a Humvee = not terrorism

Destroying enemy convoys = not terrorism

Capturing American soldiers/mercenaries = not terrorism

We are invaders in a foreign land. Chalk up those dead soldiers to casualties of war, not terrorism.

Face the facts: we're occupying Iraq illegally. When our own President has committed crimes directly resulting in a conflict that has claimed trillions in wealth and tens of thousands of lives, I find it scary anyone would support him. Yet half the country did in 2004. You may think people like me are scary, but I think far lower of many of you.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: brandonb
Sure, I'll make it clear for you. Since you had to quote people who you disagree with, and make personal attacks against them. Let me reiterate for you in case you don't understand.

I believe people who invade another country deserve to be shot at and lose fingers, even if those invaders come in with uniform (military) or plain clothes (civilians/mercenaries). They are not there for the interests of the natural born citizens of the country, they are there for profit. To rape, pillage, and steal. I don't care if these invaders are from Go-Go Good Team USA, Muslims in Kosovo, Hugo Chavez, Illegal Immigrants in the USA. No matter how you want to package up this invasion as a good thing and give it to the Iraqi's with a Bow on top, its still an invasion, and the people who are suffering are Iraqi's. If a few people get caught in the middle (be it security contractors) which also from time to time shoot up market places leaving 21 Iraqi's dead "on accident", I couldn't care less if those people got kidnapped and lost a few fingers.

Call me a dirt bag, filth or whatever, to me, if you support the Iraqi war, then its my opinion you are the idiot whos brainwashed by the neocon controlled media outlets. But lets not take it to personal attacks. Ok?

:thumbsup: Well said.

 

[palehorse]

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Try as you might to imply otherwise, this has no connection to our governments use of torture.

you're right... after all, if it did, you would have condemned it right away... but, since they are "teh evul 'merrkin sekyourtee kontractTORZ," they deserve it, right?

bah...

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: brandonb

Originally posted by: JD50
Just for the record, here are the disgusting pieces of filth that are making excuses for the torture of some security guards, and some actually seem a little happy about it.

Originally posted by: brandonb

I'm sure there's plenty more to come.

Sure, I'll make it clear for you. Since you had to quote people who you disagree with, and make personal attacks against them. Let me reiterate for you in case you don't understand.

I believe people who invade another country deserve to be shot at and lose fingers, even if those invaders come in with uniform (military) or plain clothes (civilians/mercenaries). They are not there for the interests of the natural born citizens of the country, they are there for profit. To rape, pillage, and steal. I don't care if these invaders are from Go-Go Good Team USA, Muslims in Kosovo, Hugo Chavez, Illegal Immigrants in the USA. No matter how you want to package up this invasion as a good thing and give it to the Iraqi's with a Bow on top, its still an invasion, and the people who are suffering are Iraqi's. If a few people get caught in the middle (be it security contractors) which also from time to time shoot up market places leaving 21 Iraqi's dead "on accident", I couldn't care less if those people got kidnapped and lost a few fingers.

Call me a dirt bag, filth or whatever, to me, if you support the Iraqi war, then its my opinion you are the idiot whos brainwashed by the neocon controlled media outlets. But lets not take it to personal attacks. Ok?

I really have no problem personally attacking someone that cheers on the torture of someone else, especially US citizens.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: JD50
I really have no problem personally attacking someone that cheers on the torture of someone else, especially US citizens.

Strange, I didn't figure you for a Bush-basher.

 

[JD50]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: JD50
I really have no problem personally attacking someone that cheers on the torture of someone else, especially US citizens.

Strange, I didn't figure you for a Bush-basher.

Strange, I've said plenty of times that I can't stand Bush. Just because I don't blame him for every bad thing that has happened doesn't mean that I like the guy or support him. But really, who cares about terrorists being tortured? They knew the risks when they became a terrorist, amirite????

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
LMAO; We all pull out from ME affairs they'll be further back in the stone age than they already are. Yeah, ME lands were once the center of civilization and a beacon of wisdom, invention, and life. Now they are nothing but a shit hole that happens to have oil.

I would consider that a favorable outcome, for them to wallow in their own oppression.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: brandonb
I believe people who invade another country deserve to be shot at and lose fingers

:thumbsup: Well said.

Alright then,

You round up the illegals, I'll find a blade.

 

[1EZduzit]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
Try as you might to imply otherwise, this has no connection to our governments use of torture.

you're right

QFT

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: rasczak

Originally posted by: palehorse74

Originally posted by: ZeroIQ
Last I checked those locations are in the US of A. It doesn't matter who they are or work for, they are serving our country and were taken captive. They are prisoners of war and are obviously being tortured and the only thing you can do you sick fuck is say it's their own damn fault.

Correction: They are hostages, not prisoners of war; and they were kidnapped, not captured.

They are innocent United States civilians who were trying to earn a living by escorting civilian supply caravans around the war-torn countryside. They were NOT serving the United States at the time of their kidnapping. The supplies in their trucks were not even destined for US or Coalition troops. The trucks contained building supplies and various perishables.

The only crimes here are the kidnapping and torture of innocent US and Austrian citizens by persons unknown.

I think ironwing and notorious are just a little bit... slow.

to these men (terrorists to us) these civilians are not innocent. they are part of a larger scope which they deem evil. their country has been invaded and they want all vestiges of u.s. occupation removed at all costs. we would do the same thing if we were in their position, actually I think we did. it was called the revolutionary war.

we cut of the Brits' fingers and mailed them to their government?!

How can any of you falkers actually sit there and justify the actions of the criminals who kidnapped, tortured, and maimed these American civilians!?

It disgusts me that any of you would compare their actions to the fathers of this country... it also saddens me when I realize just how fvcking stupid some people are.

I don't agree with the use of torture myself, but the fact remains that it was and always be of war. we say we don't condone it, but the government has practiced torture and will continue to practice torture to either gain more information or intimidate the enemy. the terrorists are doing what every other nation fighting for their country, their ideals has done for centuries and millenia. it's just more sensationalized because of human rights and it's being done to our own people.

 

[rasczak]

Originally posted by: Craig234

Originally posted by: rasczak

Originally posted by: Rainsford

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: Sinsear

Still unsure of these personnel are alive or dead at this point.

Severing fingers; serves as a reminder that the enemy is real, and willing to go to extremes, yet we decry some waterboarding.

That's because waterboarding is such a terrible physical act that renders the bearer terrible lasting pain and disfigurement that it shouldn't ever be done by anyone.

Also because the ones who have a mindset that chopping fingers off civilians will obviously break and tell you everything you want to know when they're sitting in the air conditioned interrogation cell and know you can't do sh1t to them.

You should know that...

Chuck

I'm still amazed that people seriously suggest we should model our behavior on what the terrorists do...just be "better" enough to still maintain the moral high ground, and we're OK. But somehow I just can't get behind the concept of morals being a relative concept.

agreed. are there really morals to throw around when it comes to war? aren't we in this to win this? history of war has always been a bloody one and will remain so. torture although inhumane has always been a way of gathering information or intimidating your opponent. during the dark ages wouldn't armies throw the heads of the fallens soldiers back over the castle walls in order to intimidate them it's how you win wars. sick as it may sound the less humane you get the more results you get.

And it's wrong and we should not do it. Sheesh you frickin' barbarian monsters.

as i stated in a previous post i don't condone it. but torture is a reality of war whether we like it or not.

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Stop flying airpalanes into our buildings.

What does Iraq have do to with 9/11?

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Stop flying airpalanes into our buildings.

What does Iraq have do to with 9/11?

Muslim fanatics influenced by Muslim fanatics killed 3,000 of your own countrypeople, who happened to be civilians?

Chuck

 

[jpeyton]

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Stop flying airpalanes into our buildings.

What does Iraq have do to with 9/11?

Muslim fanatics influenced by Muslim fanatics killed 3,000 of your own countrypeople

Can you be a little more specific? There are lots of resources available to help you research the facts.

 

[chucky2]

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: chucky2

Originally posted by: jpeyton

Originally posted by: Sinsear
Stop flying airpalanes into our buildings.

What does Iraq have do to with 9/11?

Muslim fanatics influenced by Muslim fanatics killed 3,000 of your own countrypeople

Can you be a little more specific? There are lots of resources available to help you research the facts.

Sure, let me try and be a little more specific:

First, Iraq got invaded by the US for three main reasons:
1.) They ignored 14 UN resolutions (remember now, they shouldn't have been breaking 1, let alone 14), and
2.) We weren't F'ing around with anyone after 9/11, and
3.) Saddam thought he was going to jerk everyone around like he had the past 13 times, and ran into reason #2. Whoops.

People can argue the WMD and 9/11 thing all day long, and it only boils down to which side of the argument you want to try and argue. No one is going to win it, because a.) no one at all but the highest levels has the real facts, and b.) the people at the highest levels most likely didn't even have the real facts.

People can argue the oil angle, and of course (at a minimum) they are right because if that part of the world had no oil, then generally no one (that's the whole world, including the US) would give two F's what those people did to each other and how they lived. Witness Africa and other horrifically depressed countries and how little The World collectively did for them. So was it about just oil? Well, what do you want that answer to be? Because you're just as right as the person who has an opposite view...there's absolutely no way to truly know.

So now we get down to the here and now:

1.) The here and now is that the US is in Iraq, and it's not going to be leaving anytime soon.
2.) The here and now is that the Iraqi's (and foreign fighters) themselves are the ones - by far and large - killing each other, not US/Contractor security forces.
3.) The here and now is that most Iraqi's just want to live in peace, with the US gone (no one wants strangers imposing order in a country not their own).
4.) The here and now (and from the get go) is that the US wants Iraq to succeed so it's stable, and not an unstable ME sh1thole (go look at the Palestinians if you want an example of what happens when a people continually in sh1thole conditions...).
5.) The here and now is that to accomplish #3 and #4, you need to rebuild the F'd infrastructure that is Iraq's infrastructure. To do that you need to move men and material around. When that happens, you should probably have some type of security in a war zone, that sounds like a reasonable idea to me. So when some of those security folks are kidnapped and then mutilated (that's real torture in case you're wondering, not some it's over in 30 seconds torture and nothing is physically wrong with you torture...and to cap it off, it's on average joe security person, not POS hardcore terrorist), it strikes me as somewhat odd that it would need to be explained to people like yourself on just why this is a bad thing to have happened, and it shouldn't be condoned at any level.

But, it's not odd in your case jpeyton, because in so many instances, in so many threads, it is readily apperant that you like it when the US has a problem somewhere, you want us to fail in Iraq, you want the hardliners in Iran to get what they want, you enjoy when the US has a setback somewhere.

I really don't know what happened to make a US citizen think and behave in such a way, all I know is it really makes me sick at a core level. Even more so than Macro, because it's just BDS there...you though, it's more than BDS, it's something else...

Chuck

 

[magomago]

Chucky - most countries in this world ignore UN resolutions. Countries only follow the Un when it suits their needs. Look no further than the USA for this. Using UN resolutions is a piss poor example as there are countries who've violated WAAAAY more than UN resolutions. It doesn't matter whether you support the UN or are opposed to it - there is no way to deny that this is what actually goes on.
Furthermore, referring to point number 3. what the hell did Saddam do after 9/11! Your entire "we don't f with anyone" argument is not valid. Tell me, why didn't we invade North Korea if your argument holds true? They are the ones with an entire government dedicated towards being anti American , purposely seeking nuclear weapons while it is 100% clear that they were never fully disarmed the way Saddam was. Hell Saddam actually had relations with "the west" as the country was modernizing. Before you deny that - there are UN documents clearly stating that they believe Saddam's capacity to produce WMD (you know - the things we use on others but never call it that) is non existant.

lets hope 1 happens soon. Lets hope 2 is resolved when 1 occurs. 3 is entirely true and i agree with you...4 is also true. 5 is problematic. to rebuild their infrastructure we are not hiring Iraqis to do a lot of work. Instead we bring over American truckers to the tune of 10,000 a month. Furthermore, we never established good security in the beginning, and short of another full scale invasion and tripling or quadrupling troops levels it isn't going to happen. We CAN leave and let them duke it out....which is probably the best idea.