Several Upgrade Questions

[brettjrob]

Current Setup:
AMD Palomino 2000+
ABIT KG7 (AMD761 chipset)
512MB PC2100
GeForce4 Ti4200 64MB
WD 80GB 8MB
Antec Sonata Case

I'm looking to upgrade, most likely to an Intel platform. While it's obvious that performance is far from top-of-the-line on my system (especially considering the ancient AMD761 chipset), that isn't even my biggest concern; I am just sick of my AMD CPU generating enough heat to keep my entire bedroom almost 5 degrees F higher than the rest of my house, and the extreme noise associated with my Thermaltake 6Cu+ HSF (and it's not like any other fan that will keep my CPU under 50C is going to be much quieter). It looks like, as usual, a midrange AMD CPU would be significantly cheaper (~$90 for a Barton 2500+ to O/C to 3000+), BUT I need new RAM and motherboard anyway, and those are the same price for either platform, plus the noise and heat issues would not be resolved.

If I do go with Intel, I am planning on picking up a 2.4C w/ HT to pair up with an ABIT IS7. With this combination, and with some good quality RAM, what kind of overclock can I expect with the stock/retail HSF (remember I am looking to eliminate the jet engine sound under my desk)? I have heard some claims of hitting 3GHz without a hitch on stock coolers, while others have required more powerful units to get half that overclock. Of course I expect the 2.4C with dual-channel and hyperthreading to be such a major performance improvement over a 2000+ on an AMD761 that overclocking will not be an absolute necessity, but it would certainly be nice.

[EDIT: the first reply basically answered my question about price cuts]

Thanks in advance for any advice, and apologies for my general cluelessness about hardware

 

[fredtam]

The next price cut will be October 26th.

 

[fredtam]

It is hard to say what speed you will be able to overclock to. The processors are binned at a lower rating if it does not perform at a certain spec. A cpu that fails at 3.0 will be tossed into a lower frequency bin although it may perform very close to the 3.0 spec which would then allow you to overclock that 2.6 or whatever they labeled it to near the 3.0 level. You also stand a chance of getting a cpu that passed at 2.4 but there is very little headroom left which would explain the one you saw with low overclock ability. With the demand for the 2.4 as a midcost solution Intel labels CPUs that are perfectly capable of being labeled a 2.6 or 2.8 as a 2.4 in order to fill that demand which would explain the higher overclocks. I would say that given this demand odds are you will recieve a processor that still has a lot of potential and if I had to guess I would say 2.6-2.8 would be a safe bet with stock cooling. I hope this make sense.

 

[brettjrob]

Thanks for the explanation, a reasonable chance of a 2.6-2.8 overclock sounds good enough to me.

Speaking of stock cooling, for those of you who use the 800FSB P4's, how quiet is the retail HSF?

 

[mechBgon]

FYI, the Palomino 2000+ generates a max thermal output of only 70W, versus approximately 80W for a P4 2.4C (source: www.sandpile.org). If your goal is to reduce the heat production of your system, start with an LCD monitor.

 

[mechBgon]

Oh, and for the noise problem, I'd suggest the Thermalright SK-7 and a Panaflo L1A 80mm fan. 21dB and top-notch cooling

 

[capricorn]

The 2.6C I have with retail/stock cooling is very quiet. It's only running on the order of 2000 rpm. It's in an Antec Sonata case with a couple 120 mm 1,500 rpm fans. I have to pretty much shut everything else off just to hear it. Quietest PC I've built by far. Idle temps at 36c with load temps never above 41-42c.

-cap

 

[fredtam]

Originally posted by: mechBgon
FYI, the Palomino 2000+ generates a max thermal output of only 70W, versus approximately 80W for a P4 2.4C (source: www.sandpile.org). If your goal is to reduce the heat production of your system, start with an LCD monitor.

Would the 2.4 generate less heat on average given that it does not have to work as hard in general? I agree with everything you said I am just curious.

 

[mechBgon]

What kind of 120's do you run in there? This trend toward 120mm fans is nice

 

[mechBgon]

Originally posted by: fredtam

Originally posted by: mechBgon
FYI, the Palomino 2000+ generates a max thermal output of only 70W, versus approximately 80W for a P4 2.4C (source: www.sandpile.org). If your goal is to reduce the heat production of your system, start with an LCD monitor.

Would the 2.4 generate less heat on average given that it does not have to work as hard in general? I agree with everything you said I am just curious.

Someone needs to seal one into a bomb (the laboratory type of bomb, not the other kind), and do some tests to answer that question for us I don't see where the 2.4C has to work any less hard, necessarily. For X amount of work, both CPUs will have to process the same commands. <--- (might not always be true, given P4's have SSE2 instruction set)

To refocus on brettjrob's question: what OC would he get with stock air cooling on a 2.4C? I also want to know where he's looking that they're priced the same as a 2500+

BTW, my work rig is a 2500+ with the Thermalright SK-7 and Panaflo L1A. Even with a 15000rpm SCSI drive, it's barely audible over normal office noise unless the SCSI drive is at work, and I don't mind seek noise when it gets stuff done as quickly as it does I could knock the noise level down by switching to a passively-cooled video card.

 

[brettjrob]

Good info about the heat production, I guess I'll have to stop factoring that into my list of excuses to upgrade .

To refocus on brettjrob's question: what OC would he get with stock air cooling on a 2.4C? I also want to know where he's looking that they're priced the same as a 2500+

If the 2.4C were as cheap as the 2500+ I would have made my decision long ago . In my first post I actually quoted the Barton as being $90 and the 2.4C as $175.

Your suggestion of a good quiet HS and fan combo definitely tempts me to reconsider AMD, as you say "top-notch cooling," but will it really leave me much of overclocking room (which will be necessary given the relatively low performance at default speeds)?

 

[mechBgon]

I think the real question in my mind is what you'll use the system for. In media-encoding scenarios, just get the P4 and be done with it, because it excels at that task and is good at the rest too. In gaming scenarios, an AMD rig may save you enough money to go up the ladder a notch on your video card, resulting in better overall gaming performance at high resolutions.

I've thought about overclocking my 2500+, since I obviously have the equipment for it, but haven't felt the need. And it does do some fairly heavy work at times. The only scenario where I could see an OC paying big dividends is when you've got an ongoing task such as media encoding, and the closest I get to that is creating very large Zip files (I've compressed up to 1.8Gb of data so far). If I wanted to OC using my Thermalright SK-7 and Panaflo L1A, I think it would take me about 70% of the way from stock speed to terminal OC, after which I would need more airflow.

I forgot to say "welcome to the Forums" Hope you find some good firsthand info on the P4 overclock question

 

[fredtam]

Here is a review that compares the XP2500 and the 2.4c. At CPUDatabase you can see what people are being able to do as far as overclocking by specific processors.

 

[brettjrob]

That article was just what I was looking for, thanks.

I was starting to re-consider the AMD, but then I had to consider that this would probably be an upgrade that will most likely need to last me a while (two years), and having the 800FSB and HT would probably make more sense than saving a few bucks and ending up tempted to waste more money on a total overhaul in a year. It's just a shame I have to ditch my 512mb of PC2100 and spend over $100 on a good pair of 256MB PC3200 modules (I guess Corsair for best stability and overclockability).