Serviceman goes on shooting spree in Afghanistan.

[Hayabusa Rider]

The mild form of TBI is commonly referred to as a concussion. Basically we don't know very much based on the information provided so far. Sounds like it may be a preview of his defense at trial though, whatever its merit.

I wouldn't read too much into this incident with respect to generalizing about the US military or its mission in Afghanistan. Anecdotes aside, I see nothing to support a generalization of bad conduct on the part of our military there. I think we should leave, but that is a different thing entirely.

Medically this can account for a drastic change in control. The accumulating evidence is that these sorts of injuries cause a greater range of lasting issues than had been thought. Unfortunately stressful situations are often encountered which trigger problems before they can be detected. In any case this fellow was in service for over a decade and yet there were no like incidents until just 4 months after his injury. His action is inconsistent with past history.

 

[woolfe9999]

Medically this can account for a drastic change in control. The accumulating evidence is that these sorts of injuries cause a greater range of lasting issues than had been thought. Unfortunately stressful situations are often encountered which trigger problems before they can be detected. In any case this fellow was in service for over a decade and yet there were no like incidents until just 4 months after his injury. His action is inconsistent with past history.

Right, but IIRC a single, mild TBI is unlikely to produce dramatic changes in behavior, like a severe TBI or repeated mild TBI's. Also, from your link, the TBI happened in 2010 right?

I understand the eagerness for an explanation for this kind of tragedy, but the sad truth is that often we never have a satisfactory one. I will say this, however - legal insanity is unlikely. The vast majority of even mass murderers end up not meeting the legal definition. If he had severe emotional problems brought on by external stressors and/or head trauma, it might militate against capital punishment, but not guilty by reason of insanity is usually a long shot.

- wolf

 

[Ninjahedge]

It may just be a contributing factor Woolfe.

That is why we need to investigate this a bit more. I do not think the car roll was all of the reason for his spree. It just does not seem to fit. This is almost like the beginning of a conspiracy plot type movie......

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

Right, but IIRC a single, mild TBI is unlikely to produce dramatic changes in behavior, like a severe TBI or repeated mild TBI's. Also, from your link, the TBI happened in 2010 right?

I understand the eagerness for an explanation for this kind of tragedy, but the sad truth is that often we never have a satisfactory one. I will say this, however - legal insanity is unlikely. The vast majority of even mass murderers end up not meeting the legal definition. If he had severe emotional problems brought on by external stressors and/or head trauma, it might militate against capital punishment, but not guilty by reason of insanity is usually a long shot.

- wolf

You are right about the year. As far aTBI goes heres a better link. http://news.discovery.com/human/soldier-brain-injury-120313.html

 

[woolfe9999]

You are right about the year. As far aTBI goes heres a better link. http://news.discovery.com/human/soldier-brain-injury-120313.html

If I were prosecuting him, the first thing I'd point out is that there were over "30,000 cases of TBI" among the troops, yet only one went on a shooting spree.

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

If I were pr ofosecuting him, the first thing I'd point out is that there were over "30,000 cases of TBI" among the troops, yet only one went on a shooting spree.

Don't worry, this guy hasn't a chance, but while you may point out your statistic, the body of current medical knowledge holds that this is a bigger problem than generally known. You might be surprised what a single game of football can do to a high school kid at impacts of a fraction of that thought to be needed to produce the mildest concussion. The study was so well done and damning that my son will not playing that sport. Does this meet the legal oydefinition of outright insanity? I doubt it, but a medical practitioner who has kept up with the subject would immediately suspect this of being a serious contributing factor. A thorough battery of tests would be required to make a determination, but such a finding if true is something the service would be highly motivated to discredit for obvious reasons. It may be that he was not impaired, but serious antisocial behavior usually shows tangible signs long before something like this. Unfortunately his base has an abysmal record of getting these things right.

 

[woolfe9999]

Don't worry, this guy hasn't a chance, but while you may point out your statistic, the body of current medical knowledge holds that this is a bigger problem than generally known. You might be surprised what a single game of football can do to a high school kid at impacts of a fraction of that thought to be needed to produce the mildest concussion. The study was so well done and damning that my son will not playing that sport. Does this meet the legal oydefinition of outright insanity? I doubt it, but a medical practitioner who has kept up with the subject would immediately suspect this of being a serious contributing factor. A thorough battery of tests would be required to make a determination, but such a finding if true is something the service would be highly motivated to discredit for obvious reasons. It may be that he was not impaired, but serious antisocial behavior usually shows tangible signs long before something like this. Unfortunately his base has an abysmal record of getting these things right.

I don't necessarily doubt a causal link between TBI and violent behavior. However, IIRC the studies done so far are largely correlational without a definite causal link. One concern is that people who receive head injuries might statistically have been more likely to be violent before receiving the injury, i.e. those who get into fights.

Even with proof of causation in a statistically significant sample, it is nigh impossible to prove causation in an individual case. The milder brain injuries don't show up on scans so you can't point to something still definitely being there when the later violent incident occurs, like you can with a tumor. The fact is, we do not know enough about the brain to definitely say that a TBI contributed to a particular violent outburst. Also, IIRC the studies show 5-15% increase in likelihood of violent behavior for those with TBI's, and this isn't good enough to meet a legal standard to say that he had a head injury that slightly increased his chances of doing something violent. It remains the case that most people with TBI's aren't violent and most violence comes from people without TBI's.

Some day we will probably understand the brain well enough to make more definitive determinations. However, I think the science as is can be torn apart in an individual case, even if it's pretty solid on the larger population scale.

- wolf

 

[Hayabusa Rider]

There are cognition tests which could provide insight, however as you know such defense puts the burden of proof on the defendant. Having a TBI is akin to saying your car has a problem. Thats great that you know it but hardly useful. Anatomy dictates the most likely sites of injury and the frontal lobed where "we" live in, that part that houses our judgment and sense of right and wrong, are among the most likely to suffer injury. Unfortunately the mind isn't all on our off. A cursory or casual examination may note no change, however that does not mean that thresholds for antisocial behavior aren't lowered due to the impaired physiologic response of the brain. If the stress is sufficient behavior not seen before can manifest with tragic consequences.

 

[Zebo]

This dude will walk after a couple years in a rubber room. You can't try and execute crazy and he has a history or repeated brain injuries and combat stress.

 

[Jaskalas]

This dude will walk after a couple years in a rubber room. You can't try and execute crazy and he has a history or repeated brain injuries and combat stress.

I don't think anyone who commits such cold and calculated, premeditated mass murder should ever walk.

His crimes have forfeited his life regardless of reasoning.

 

[Stayfr0sty]

Then we wonder why most of the world hate americans.
Jackass nuts like this. Really ticks me off.
Was this a Marine or a regular GI that pulled of this stupid rampage?