JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
- 986
- 126
Their bread and butter SUV and fullsize truck sales are down too. They don't make much money on their cars.
Their bread and butter SUV and fullsize truck sales are down too. They don't make much money on their cars.
I dont think it has as much to do with their pricing and vehicle quality as it does their employee pension retirement plan.
TraumaRN
Diamond Member
- Jun 5, 2005
- 6,893
- 63
- 91
Yea, my family too. Dad drives an 00 Explorer with 160K miles on, sister drives 95 Taurus with 250K on it, mother drives 03 explorer with 60K on it, i drive an 02 Taurus with 95K on it, We have a 93 F-150 with 200K on it, we used to have a Crown Vic with 200K on it.
All the cars just needed the routine stuff changed, oil, headlight bulbs, trans fluid, new brakes, except the 95 Taurus which was in an accident so we had to rebuild the front end....thats bout it. Build quality is there, they just need to snag people with styling and good MPG
JulesMaximus
No Lifer
- Jul 3, 2003
- 74,586
- 986
- 126
You sure you don't mean GM?
Oooh, a clutch failed. Next you'll be telling me that a Ford vehicle needed a brake job or the oil changed. :roll:
iamwiz82
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2001
- 30,772
- 13
- 81
I think it's incredibly stupid to force a company to pay medical benefits to retirees and their spouses. Pretty much every elderly retired person in SE Michigan is being supported by the big three. My wife's grandmother is still receiving a pension and medical benefits from GM and her grandfather passed away almost 15 years ago. How is a business supposed to support that kind of weight?
There are many reasons, health cost for older workers like someone mentioned. Ford, GM, Chrysler make a lot of money selling SUVs and trucks, but more people are looking for fuel efficient cars. The Ford Focus is great in Europe and the rest of the world but it's an older model in the US, and can't even compete with the Koreans. The Ford Rangers, one of the most successful Ford model, is abandoned and given up to Toyota and Nissan midsize pickups. Ford put into a lot of effort and money into the Ford GT (a car I would get if I ever win the lotto) to compete with Ferraris, instead of coming up with RWD model to compete with the Chrysler 300, or something sporty like the Nissan/Infinity G35.
PricklyPete
Lifer
- Sep 17, 2002
- 14,582
- 162
- 106
People who make blanket quality statements are just ignorant. All car makers have there share of poorly designed/built vehicles. Ford has made some real clunkers (and still do make some crappy cars), but they also make a lot of really great cars...along with their other divisions (Mazda, Volvo, Jaguar, etc.). No, as a company, they are not Toyota/Honda quality...but they are damn close. I would have no problem owning a number of their vehicles...especially the cars they sell in Europe.
The problems they are having are not centered on one single cause. They need to restructure/adjust a number of issues to regain profitability:
1) Too much overhead (management, healthcare costs, pension)
2) Over paid Union Workers with outrageous benefits
3) Unprofitable divisions (Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin, etc)
4) Too much reliance on SUVs/Trucks
The problems they are having are not centered on one single cause. They need to restructure/adjust a number of issues to regain profitability:
1) Too much overhead (management, healthcare costs, pension)
2) Over paid Union Workers with outrageous benefits
3) Unprofitable divisions (Jaguar, Land Rover, Aston Martin, etc)
4) Too much reliance on SUVs/Trucks
CaptnKirk
Lifer
- Jul 25, 2002
- 10,053
- 0
- 71
I read an article a few weeks ago that when Ford Managers looked at the decline in sales of their BIG SUV's
the decision was made to shut down the large vehicle lines so they could make an EVEN BIGGER vehicle.
They apparently think that their gas hogs aren't big enough and that the even larger vehicles will sell more.
That's the poster child for incompetence, arrogance, and cluelessness rolled up into one BIG PACKAGE.
the decision was made to shut down the large vehicle lines so they could make an EVEN BIGGER vehicle.
They apparently think that their gas hogs aren't big enough and that the even larger vehicles will sell more.
That's the poster child for incompetence, arrogance, and cluelessness rolled up into one BIG PACKAGE.
TraumaRN
Diamond Member
- Jun 5, 2005
- 6,893
- 63
- 91
Thank you Wiz for making the point I was just about to make. The thing is I dont think the Big 3 nor the UAW foresaw the sickening increase in health care costs. Not only that they were clueless about what the consumer wanted.
Now they are finally getting it a little straight, the new Ford Edge which I linked to earlier they paid people to let Ford stalk them figure out what the younger crowd wanted, what the older crowd wanted, what the in-betweens wanted....and the Edge is partially the result. It's definitely the car I want to buy next because it does appeal to me as a younger person. And that is what Ford is betting on...
Mermaidman
Diamond Member
- Sep 4, 2003
- 7,987
- 93
- 91
I think Ford is getting better. I drove a rental Ford 500 and thought it was decent. OTOH, Ford still misses on some moves. e.g. 2007 Mercury Mariner--the dash went from bad to worse!
The NA Focus is a 7 yr old + design, they sell it at a loss to off-set the CAFE standards required so they can keep selling F150's and Explorer's.
If they introduced the European Focus they would have to sell it for more end up selling less of them and come under gov't penalities.
They also have no sub-compact for NA, Ford execs freely admit they underestimated the cause/effect of high gasoline prices.
So in effect its of their own doing. . .
If they introduced the European Focus they would have to sell it for more end up selling less of them and come under gov't penalities.
They also have no sub-compact for NA, Ford execs freely admit they underestimated the cause/effect of high gasoline prices.
So in effect its of their own doing. . .
MrChad
Lifer
- Aug 22, 2001
- 13,507
- 3
- 81
A lot of it is public perception. The buying public will automatically assume a Toyota or Honda is well-built and reliable, while Ford/GM/Chrysler have yet to shake the stigma of "cheapness" that many of their cars exhibited in the 90s. I think the quality has improved by leaps and bounds over the last 5-10 years; now they just have to make the public believe it.
their cars look like ass and their logo's got to go.
(obviously, neither point applies to the mustang)
(obviously, neither point applies to the mustang)
yeah jag are really dragin their feet at the moment, and again i cant see why. the new XJ is a superb machine, but people are still turning to BM, Audi, Merc for their luxury.
Landrover are actually doin quite well, here in england anyway. if you want a stylish SUV there simply no other choice (providing you have £££) than the range rover, or if your a bit poorer, the Discovery 3. they are the defacto standard of luxury SUV's, no one does it better.
Aston Martin, another british great, has been sold back i believe... so Aston is now back under its original ownership.
i guess in the US the theme has been the big SUV's....and they've been churning them out as fast as they were being bought. so the focus has been on quickly nailing together big thirsty cars to quench the consumers thirst
where as here the SUV, while popular, isnt as a big a hit as in the US, and the focus has always been on the family cars with 1.4 - 2.0 litre engines, and now increasingly with the advent of common rail diesel injection the emphasis is very much on ultra frugal diesel models.
diesels are getting so good here, the french especially know whats what when it comes to diesel and so do the germans...and as a result alot of new car sales today are for diesels. they're even starting to put diesels in sports models....the Skoda Fabia VRS has a 130bhp 1.9 litre Common rail diesel engine and its bloody quick....quicker than a Mini cooper.
i guess its just different cultures..... ford vehicles here in europe are very well made. the new models especially so. everything feels solid, theres no creaks, squeaks or rattles and everything functions as it should. the only complaint is that the lesser models dont seem to as well equiped as they should, especially when compared to their french counterparts
Queasy
Moderator<br>Console Gaming
- Aug 24, 2001
- 31,796
- 2
- 0
Maybe push for a new Governor for the state of Michigan? A recent report card on Governor's from the CATO Institute gave Michigan Governor Granholm a 'C' stating that "Granholm has yet to realize what really ails Michigan is high taxes and too much industrial planning by government. Her first term contained far too much of both."
TraumaRN
Diamond Member
- Jun 5, 2005
- 6,893
- 63
- 91
That point doesnt make sense. The state was in the sh!tter when Engler was Governor, Granholm has played alot of damage control which given the situation is about all she can do.
How in 4 years can she or Dick DeVos fix what was 100 years of automobiles and manufacturing. You cant wave a magic wand and give everyone a college degree and a high tech job to go with it.
Like Georgia Republican Governor Perdue is doing any better losing both the Ford and GM plants around Atlanta. :roll: :laugh:
To be honest, I think fords 2006 model line is a huge step up. I recently bought an '06 Explorer XLT, and am loving it. As soon as we got it we took it on a road trip to San Diego (from SLC). Turned out to be one of the most comfortable rides I've ever had. I drove straight through, only stopping for fuel (a little more often than desired, but I was hauling a lot too) and my butt never fell asleep -- and I mean my butt, literally. The engine is perky, the steering is nimble, the brakes are tight. I owned a 92' explorer xlt a few years back, and I have to say the quality difference is night and day.
Raduque
Lifer
- Aug 22, 2004
- 13,140
- 138
- 106
I don't know. I think they make nice trucks. I'm actually going to be in the market for a truck around summer of next year, and due to our past experiences with them (my dad has an 01 f150, and way back when I lived in Alaska, I drove an 82 F250) I'll be seriously looking at the new F-series.
iamwiz82
Lifer
- Jan 10, 2001
- 30,772
- 13
- 81
Granholm is doing nothing to keep jobs here. Trust me, my company has told her that we will be moving to NC/SC if she cannot give us any help. NC/SC offer no taxes, cheaper utilities, cheaper labor, etc. The CEO has talked to Granholm personally and she says she will help but then it never appears.
Drive through any of the industrial parks in RH and look at all the For Sale/Lease signs everywhere. I can see 6 from my building.
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