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Seriously Need Heating & Air Conditioning Advice And Price

P

Pikachu

Golden Member
No joke, this is big bucks to me. Got quoted $4,300 to install gas furnace, A/C and hot water tank. Our house is about 1,500 square feet, heavily shaded and average insulation (not tight). I'm also getting about 30 feet of cold air return added to the system. This would be using Payne, 80% AFUE, model PG8U or PG8D. Also a Payne model PA10, 10 SEER, 2 ton A/C unit. Don't what brand or model hot water tank, but when I asked if it was auto cleaning, he said he never heard of that. Said it was higher recover and used 4" flue instead of 3". 😕

I checked Home Depot and saw furnaces and A/C units for under $1,000 each. Saw hot water tanks for $150 and $220 for self cleaning. A friend had a furnace installed for $1,200 total about 10 years ago. Had a "ComfortMaker" A/C added the next spring for another $1,200 total. Yeah, I'm waiting for a phone number for this fellow!

The guy that quoted me for the Payne stuff, said it would cost about $350 more to get Bryant instead. Said the only difference to speak of was the name. He's already added an extended warranty to the Payne units to at least match or better the Bryant. He doesn't care which I choose.

So, does anybody here install or know anything about this field? Am I getting a royal hosing or what? Got a couple rough quotes over the phone and they were close to that. Couple other guys coming Monday. Honestly, it seems like about one or two days work for about $2,000 profit!

What should I be looking for as far as brands or other things? My current hot water tank is 22 years old. I've heard that the newer ones don't seem to hold up as long, why? Are there good ones available that do last? The one I have is a Ruud, are theirs still good? What makes one better than another? I've been told already that these newer furnaces have sort of a "roar" when they're heating. Also, the ignition unit will need replacing every five years or so by a heating serviceman. It's about a $25.00 part plus labor. Sheesh!

I hope somebody here can fill me in. This is one area that I'm sorely lacking in expertise 😱
 
well just for reference. 2 a/c units (units only, no new ducts etc) for a 3000sqft house was $2200. my father purchased a unit for a ~1400sqft house for $800 and had one of his employees do the work. 2 hot water heaters replaced for about $400 each. were all of your quotes from the same people? plumbers usually do hot water tanks i think. it shouldnt be hard to do it yourself if you dont mind welding (i couldn't do it, but maybe you could). unless you are qualified i wouldnt do anything on the ac yourself. if you let that gas off into the air you could be fined. wow i wasnt much help.
 
I guess what this boils down to is how much labor should be for this job. It's a job that most people can't do themselves, so these tradesmen can charge what they want. Guess what I need is a "friend in the business". That'll teach me not to cultivate more friendships off-line! 😉

Well, if I gotta pay, I gotta pay. But if you all have any input on specific little things to look for in these units, spew it forth. I appreciate any advice or warnings, Bruno. Prices others have paid is a big help too. Every little detail adds up to getting more of your (guess I should say my) money's worth in the end. These prices make PC hardware look like pocket change! When's the last time you made $1,000 profit on a $2,000 PC sale? Sheesh!

I've heard Trane and Carrier are, or were, top end Ameesh. I'm just as curious about the current state of the art of furnaces and A/C units in general. I hear that the ignition systems have changed a couple times since the pilot type. A/C has become quieter and more efficient. Sounds like the stupid hot water tanks have gone downhill! And yeah, I could handle the install of the HW tank, but, hell, if the guy's doing the other stuff, it should be no big deal to just throw that in. Like if somebody asks you to install a hard drive, how much more are you going to charge him for installation of memory?

I'm going to be searching on-line for more do's and don'ts' of this endeavor. Just kind of hoping somebody here at AT might be in this business. If you are, shout out some tips, I'm a freakin' newbie at this!

Thanks!
 
I had my condenser unit (outside) replaced about 5 years ago and it was $1500 for about a 2 1/2 ton, industrial unit. Now it looks like I'm going to have to replace the hear exchanger/air handler and some of the duct work in the attic and that looks to be about $1500-$2000. I have hot water base-board heat and I've thought of replacing the boiler and domestic hot water coil... that looks to be about $3700.

I'll trade you costs! 😀

Joe
 
I priced units for the Dallas TX area last year for a house about that size. It was about $3500 w/o the water heater. This was with a Trane Heat pump system.
 
Hmmmm, bend over, eh? Dang it, just got back from Home Depot and both pieces would be less than $750 each for "Hamilton" brand. Hot water tanks were $150 - $220 by Ruud and GE.

Got a call back from one fellow that's coming out Tuesday. Rough quote was $3,000 for Rheem furnace and A/C. Said the Rheem uses spark ignition instead of the "hot surface ignition" device. It's older technology, but sounds better to me, if those newfangled things are going to need replacement every few years. And the wondrous Bryant uses aluminized steel VS Rheem's stainless steel. I noticed Rheem sells a fancy "Integrated Control and Motor" with their higher end units. That would be nice to get.

Sorry to hear about the mega costs there Joe. The reason I'm asking this stuff is because I just know what is going to happen after I buy this stuff. Everybody and their brother is going to say, "I got that same thing for half what you paid!" Or, "You should have gotten the chrome plated, turbo-nebulizer unit for just a couple dollars more!" I'm also certain I'll miss out on some kind of package deal, rebate thing from not asking first.

Thanks loads for the input so far. I'm learning little by little...
 
I really haven't heard much of the brands that you're speaking of....I'd not skimp too much on an a/c or furnace as you'll spend more on utilities and repair than just buying a good one from the start. I really like trane and lennox. Also see what local company you're happy with. One of my friends here is an installer and he has a scrap book of pictures of all the installs, even the ducting work, for him its like art. I think anyone that takes that much pride in their work will do better than the guy who is just trying to get another case of beer.

Water heaters are'nt hard to put in at all. There is no welding involved, you just sweat the joints together. You'd need copper tubing, a wire brush, a small pipe cutter, a propane torch, solder, and flux. You just cut the pipe lengths properly, brush them, flux them, slide 'em all together and then heat them with the torch until they're hot, then apply solder to join them. The hardest part of the job is disposing of the old unit and having a vechile with enough cargo room to carry them in
 
Got bunches of quotes coming in for the next few days. Not too many of the installers are pushing one brand over another to much of an extent. Most can put in whatever I prefer.

Well, I need somebody to talk me out of Rheem. The guy that installs those just left and will have a quote done tomorrow. I like Rheem's heating units because they use stainless steel tubes instead of stamped "aluminized steel". They use the "low tech" spark ignitors instead of the expensive and delicate "hot surface ignition" and all of their furnaces use a three speed motor. They even offer a two stage burner in the 80% efficient models. The 90% efficient model is only about a $300.00 bump up and is supposed to be much quieter.

Their air conditioners use a "Copeland Compliant Scroll Compressor", which is unique. Somebody talk me out of this or point to something better! Otherwise I'm going to insist that whoever does the job, uses this brand. Doesn't anybody do this for a living?

Thanks In Advance 😉

Edit: My old school mate just left his quote for a Bryant System with Ruud hot water tank... $5,000.00! :Q
 
Rheem Criterion Furnaces actually have a four speed blower motor but only use two of the speeds. The gas ignition is a hot surface (glow rod). The heat exchangers carry a 20 (twenty) year warranty too.

Go here for more information.

Cheers!
 
Thanks for the info sharkeeper. I get the impression that you are involved in this field, true? I'm still waiting for a couple bids to come in. I was going to wait till the last one arrived, but I just had to vent. (Vent! That's a pun, get it? 😉 Oh well...)

Yeah, these guys must have a damn cartel going around here! Most prices are coming in pretty close. I'm leaning toward a "scroll" compressor for the 10SEER AC unit and a two stage 80+ furnace with as much stainless steel in the exchanger as possible. Not so concerned with Hot Surface Ignition VS Spark Ignition anymore. Been filled in on the details of that issue and it's been addressed adequately.

So, it's a choice between Rheem and Comfortmaker at this point. Trane can't get a scroll compressor for me and their "fuzzy coils" are damn near impossible to clean from what I've heard. Neither Bryant nor Lennox' 2 stage have a 2 speed combustion fan like Comfortmaker or Rheem. That's a great feature for keeping noise down. The Comfortmaker's heat exchanger is all stainless, which is usually only found in the 90% furnaces by other manufacturers, if at all.

The guy that is pushing Comfortmaker installs on the side. Not as good a warranty available from him, but price should be MUCH lower. Can't wait for his quote!

So, I've gotten quite an education in the last week or so. $4,000 - $5,000 to install $2,000 worth of equipment. Can't believe more of you folks aren't in this business! Please bring on any more info you can offer, I'm only a couple days away from signing...

Thanks!
 
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