Seriously having seconds thoughts on college

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: ScottFern
Well I am 23 and just got into IT doing lower level things but then again its a small company. I have a degree in Political Science, and I am just wondering how that helped me get into this job? I mean I understand certain HR people value a degree regardless of what it is, I just didn't think that was common place in the IT world?

If you have a degree in something related to IT you'd not be doing lower level things.
I've got a BS degree in Network Engineering and an AS in Telecom and I was literally sought after for a job, not the other way around. I had recruiters and head hunters calling me nonstop my last year of school.

 

[yllus]

Originally posted by: ScottFern
Well I am 23 and just got into IT doing lower level things but then again its a small company. I have a degree in Political Science, and I am just wondering how that helped me get into this job? I mean I understand certain HR people value a degree regardless of what it is, I just didn't think that was common place in the IT world?

I'm sure it helped. A degree nowadays, especially in IT, doesn't say, "I know how to do this-and-that." It says, "I know how to learn, work with others, slave away for hours and finish a complicated task..."

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: enyce2k9
I understand that it sounds great to say continue, and just get the degree, but if you think of the effort required with the given circumstances I believe its natural to want out.

You always get out what you put in. It's natural to want out, but if it was easy then everybody would be doing it, and that's part of why it's so rewarding.

 

[BeauJangles]

Originally posted by: yllus

Originally posted by: ScottFern
Well I am 23 and just got into IT doing lower level things but then again its a small company. I have a degree in Political Science, and I am just wondering how that helped me get into this job? I mean I understand certain HR people value a degree regardless of what it is, I just didn't think that was common place in the IT world?

I'm sure it helped. A degree nowadays, especially in IT, doesn't say, "I know how to do this-and-that." It says, "I know how to learn, work with others, slave away for hours and finish a complicated task..."

Yup. A college degree says a lot about who you are and what you are capable of doing. The field is usually far less important than the simple fact that you made it through four years.

I'm pretty sure that everyone at some point during their college careers wonders wtf they are doing and wants to drop out. I know it was true for me and for a number of my friends. In some ways the desire to leave is probably natural, but sticking it out has been the most rewarding experience I've had.

 

[NuAlphaMan]

Originally posted by: NuroMancer

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: NuroMancer

Originally posted by: pontifex
get a degree
believe me, i went the route you are thinking of and it sucks.

Yes you can learn what you want, but when they are looking for people to promote, you will get passed over.

thats if you can even find a job.
i've been looking at going college lately, even for just an Associate's degree. Once you're out there working full time, it makes it 100x harder to go back.

See, I'm considering doing my masters. But I had kinda decided to wait and go back later.

Oh well, maybe I'll do it.

Dude, get your masters now if you want it. Once you start making money and have responsibilities (job, family, etc.), it get that much harder. And if you are relying on your employer for that, the benefit may suck!

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: NuroMancer

Originally posted by: pontifex
get a degree
believe me, i went the route you are thinking of and it sucks.

Yes you can learn what you want, but when they are looking for people to promote, you will get passed over.

thats if you can even find a job.
i've been looking at going college lately, even for just an Associate's degree. Once you're out there working full time, it makes it 100x harder to go back.

There are a couple of very good community colleges here in Illinois that offer accelerated programs designed for working adults. I attend College of DuPage
Courses are fast paced, 9 weeks, often two classes are combined into one and taught by two instructors. One night a week 4 hour classes.
I work 50 hours a week on average and have three children under ten.
The program takes about 18 months and you end with an associates. The school actively pursues relationships with 4 year schools in the area, and when I'm finished in Oct. I'll transfer to an 11 month Psychology program where I'll get my BA.

You can do it pontifex, you just need to find a good program for you. I agree that standard college courses would be impossible to take and still work\have family. They're not designed for it. However, some good schools ARE designing programs for non-standard students. Check it out.

 

[halik]

Originally posted by: Codewiz
Hope you want to do low level IT work your entire life.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: TecHNooB

Originally posted by: enyce2k9
I understand that it sounds great to say continue, and just get the degree, but if you think of the effort required with the given circumstances I believe its natural to want out.

Third day of college and you're already calling it quits? What are you majoring in?

Seriously... third day? I stuck it out through all kinds of garbage classes (classes I knew I'd need to graduate but I hated) like English and history just to get where I am now. I'm in my last year studying mechanical engineering and I'm very glad I stayed. All of my classes have a hands-on component and I'm loving everything I do. For the first time I'm happy to go above and beyond the homework just to dig deeply into stuff that fascinates the hell out of me.

The thing about a four-year degree is that it proves you have discipline to get through sh¡tty stuff just to get to the good stuff. When you get to the good stuff this whole system won't necessarily make sense, but you'll definitely be glad you did, asuming you pick a field that interests you. Employers want people who are willing to do unenjoyable things because they know they can count on you. An old friend of mine had his two-year degree (IT with some kind of programming emphasis) and ran into all kinds of problems competing against guys with four-year degrees even though he had superior experience and just as many technical classes and skills.

 

[NanoStuff]

The intent of schooling should always be to learn, with degrees/diplomas/certifications as a side effect of your achievements. It seems to me that in recent years the purpose of college education has lost it's priorities. Now the idea almost entirely seems to be to have something to show an employer, regardless of whether the education you received justified the cost.

In many cases, you can develop superior abilities through self-education, if you're a person that is capable of educating themselves. It allows you to focus on your own priorities with resources of your own choosing, often in the forms of books and documentation written by individuals far more qualified than a college teacher. You can prove your worth through internships and certification exams that don't require prior college attendance. if you did your self-assigned homework, you're likely to surpass your college derivative counterparts.

It's not a college exclusive proposition entirely. If you believe college will provide a better education for your field of interest than you could otherwise obtain, do it. Just be sure you pick the right college with the right curriculum and teacher. Don't get stuck with a whole semester learning the history of fortran from a teacher qualified in HTML.

 

[R Nilla]

Originally posted by: Platypus
GET YOUR DEGREE
GET YOUR DEGREE
GET YOUR DEGREE
GET YOUR DEGREE
GET YOUR DEGREE
GET YOUR DEGREE

That said, get your degree. Certs are meaningless compared to a bachelors degree + experience. Your degree is your ticket into a very competitive market and will be your edge.. trust us on this one.

:thumbsup:

 

[pontifex]

Originally posted by: djheater

There are a couple of very good community colleges here in Illinois that offer accelerated programs designed for working adults. I attend College of DuPage
Courses are fast paced, 9 weeks, often two classes are combined into one and taught by two instructors. One night a week 4 hour classes.
I work 50 hours a week on average and have three children under ten.
The program takes about 18 months and you end with an associates. The school actively pursues relationships with 4 year schools in the area, and when I'm finished in Oct. I'll transfer to an 11 month Psychology program where I'll get my BA.

You can do it pontifex, you just need to find a good program for you. I agree that standard college courses would be impossible to take and still work\have family. They're not designed for it. However, some good schools ARE designing programs for non-standard students. Check it out.

how did you find out about these schools that have the special programs for working students? the program you described seems pretty nice. i know my local CC has 4 different types of programs:

Career Programs:
These programs require four or more terms of full-time study for completion and include courses that provide both concentrated study in a particular field and general education designed to broaden a student's knowledge and skills beyond an area of concentration. Students generally have the objective of entering the job market immediately upon graduation.

Certificate Programs:
These programs require two or more terms for completion, and all of the required courses focus on an occupational skill. A certificate program is suitable for a student with a specifically defined occupational goal.


Diploma Programs:
These offer concentrated study of technical job skills. They are usually chosen by students who need to acquire a specific technical skill as quickly as possible and require the equivalent of two or more terms for completion.

Transfer Programs:
These programs provide the first two years of education for students intending to transfer to four-year institutions


I'm not exactly sure what the difference between diploma and cert programs are. they seem pretty much the same to me. i think the cert has more general classes like english than the diploma does though.

I wouldn't mind the classes for the specific occupation I would be looking for but its the general classes that scare me, like english and math. I am horrible at math.

 

[aswedc]

Remember, you're a customer. Don't like what the college is offering you? Take your business elsewhere.

Looks like your English might need some work, but that's not important for an IT career. Neither is Math beyond the basic level. They say three years for an Associates? Forget that.

Here's an idea to get you started. With thousands of schools out there, there are many other possibilities.

If you have two brain cells and ten hours a week, you can get an Associates from the University of Phoenix and other for profit operations in less than two years with a 3.0 GPA. From there, 90% of colleges outside the US News top 100 will accept you as a Junior transfer.

 

[djheater]

Originally posted by: pontifex

Originally posted by: djheater

There are a couple of very good community colleges here in Illinois that offer accelerated programs designed for working adults. I attend College of DuPage
Courses are fast paced, 9 weeks, often two classes are combined into one and taught by two instructors. One night a week 4 hour classes.
I work 50 hours a week on average and have three children under ten.
The program takes about 18 months and you end with an associates. The school actively pursues relationships with 4 year schools in the area, and when I'm finished in Oct. I'll transfer to an 11 month Psychology program where I'll get my BA.

You can do it pontifex, you just need to find a good program for you. I agree that standard college courses would be impossible to take and still work\have family. They're not designed for it. However, some good schools ARE designing programs for non-standard students. Check it out.

how did you find out about these schools that have the special programs for working students? the program you described seems pretty nice. i know my local CC has 4 different types of programs:

Career Programs:
These programs require four or more terms of full-time study for completion and include courses that provide both concentrated study in a particular field and general education designed to broaden a student's knowledge and skills beyond an area of concentration. Students generally have the objective of entering the job market immediately upon graduation.

Certificate Programs:
These programs require two or more terms for completion, and all of the required courses focus on an occupational skill. A certificate program is suitable for a student with a specifically defined occupational goal.


Diploma Programs:
These offer concentrated study of technical job skills. They are usually chosen by students who need to acquire a specific technical skill as quickly as possible and require the equivalent of two or more terms for completion.

Transfer Programs:
These programs provide the first two years of education for students intending to transfer to four-year institutions


I'm not exactly sure what the difference between diploma and cert programs are. they seem pretty much the same to me. i think the cert has more general classes like english than the diploma does though.

I wouldn't mind the classes for the specific occupation I would be looking for but its the general classes that scare me, like english and math. I am horrible at math.

I actually heard a radio ad, and went to see an adviser. The woman I talked to was very helpful and knowledgable. She told me about a number of programs in the area, that satisfied my needs, and I actually did not end up going to her school!
I would go seen an adviser at the CC, and tell them what you're looking for. Now, you miht get stuck with a crappy one the first time, so you might need to try again, or go to a different school's advisors. There are genuinely helpful people out there!

 

[fbrdphreak]

In college I worked for the people who took the route you're talking about, doing mid-level IT work. Realistically their careers peaked around the $50-$60K mark, stuck dealing with paper pushing morons. The job isn't very hard, but it is far from rewarding and has little upward mobility. A lot of these people are going back for better degrees in order to try and go somewhere.

I left them when I graduated, going from making $11/hour (not bad for how easy and laid back the job was) to the same salary as my direct manager. Now while I believe I got lucky, I went into a job at a company that I care about, doing lots of important work for the company that is getting recognized by the President/CEO, and my future career options are rather unlimited at this point.

All for four years of pain in the ass work, most of which I learned during that time I won't directly use here (engineering).

That's not to say that ALL college degrees will be rewarding in terms of a career, you need to do research and find not only what you like, but also what is lucrative.

Don't limit your future just because you don't want to do the work right now. Tough through it man, almost EVERYONE I talk to who didn't get a degree (or valuable one) says they wish they had. You can survive, you can even live a good life without a college degree, but you will work harder and longer to get the same results as others.

Best of luck

 

[azazyel]

Originally posted by: ScottFern
Well I am 23 and just got into IT doing lower level things but then again its a small company. I have a degree in Political Science, and I am just wondering how that helped me get into this job? I mean I understand certain HR people value a degree regardless of what it is, I just didn't think that was common place in the IT world?

I'm doing software testing for a major retail site and I got my degree in Social Sciences. I think a degree mainly shows that you have follow through and have developed some social skills. I would also say get the degree. It took me almost 8 years (worked full time through school) but I'm glad I did it.

Also, remember that you are there to learn, not to just get a grade. It took me a few years to grasp it but it really made a difference in my attitude towards college. The professors are being paid by me and I was very adamant about learning something from them.

If you don't like the school though drop out and go to a CC. I was lucky that Washington has amazing CCs. The classes are smaller and a lot of the teachers are retired professonials. It was always fun to learn something and have a teacher throw in some real life examples.

 

[Garet Jax]

Don't quit now or it will be all too easy to continue doing it in the future.

 

[Al Neri]

what school are you going to? is it in the city?

 

[xgsound]

Originally posted by: enyce2k9
I understand that it sounds great to say continue, and just get the degree, but if you think of the effort required with the given circumstances I believe its natural to want out.

Perhaps it is natural to want out. That is part of why a 4 year degree means so much to your lifelong earning potential. It means you face complex challanges and succeed. The degree will carry the weight of 4 pages of accomplishments on your resume in the future.

Try to stick with it, and later in the semester look into what 4 year degrees are interesting to you. Make it work, one day at a time, and it will pay off for the rest of your life. Here's my brother's observation ... Almost all the people that work under him are smarter than him, but they don't have a degree.


Jim