Serious question about applying for patent

[zixxer]

I came up with an idea for a product that (I seriously doubt) has ever been thought of. How do you start with nothing but an idea and go from there?

I don't know anyone in this business or field - or have enough money to get started. How do people approach investors without worrying about your idea being stolen? For example, I'm fairly certain this would be something that 3m would be interested in - but I'd rather produce it myself. I'd guesstimate that the development/machinery costs would approach $1 million..

 

[SSSnail]

What does the product do?

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: zixxer
I came up with an idea for a product that (I seriously doubt) has ever been thought of. How do you start with nothing but an idea and go from there?

I don't know anyone in this business or field - or have enough money to get started. How do people approach investors without worrying about your idea being stolen? For example, I'm fairly certain this would be something that 3m would be interested in - but I'd rather produce it myself. I'd guesstimate that the development/machinery costs would approach $1 million..

It will cost you between 6k-20k to hire a lawyer to file the patent, once filed you can attempt to license your invention to others.

 

[chusteczka]

Please do not publicly disclose your idea until after your patent application has been turned in. First thing is to obtain the patent. Then you can contact companies without fearing that they may steal the undeveloped idea from you.

Here is a very helpful book. This book can be found in most libraries and will often have to be returned immediately on its due date because others will be waiting for it.
Patent it Yourself


EDIT:
My advice is to create the application yourself. Create your own background and history of prior art. This will involve an extensive search through prior art. It really is best to find all similar ideas/inventions yourself so you can create your patent as novel above the prior art. The more you find and prepare for, the less the patent examiner can throw back at you.

Once you create your own Background and Brief Summary of your invention, then create some drawings. Make some sketches of what you want and then take it to a professional draftsman. Once you have the drawings, you can create your Brief and Detailed Descriptions of the drawings.

Once all this is done, you can start working on your claims. It is said that an inventor does not truly understand the invention until the claims have been created.

When you have created all these parts of the application yourself, then take it to a patent attorney for professional development. Your work will give the attorney more to work with. The patent attorney will modify your ideas and twist them in new ways that you need to keep your mind open to accept. Just ensure the attorney's ideas stay within the spirit of your invention.


EDIT2:
It is important to judge the marketability of your ideas before going through the work and expense of developing it. Assuming your idea is marketable, then it can be worthwhile to develop it and consider if a patent is an appropriate method to protect your intellectual property. Here is another good book on the subject. The author covers how to profit from ideas even if they are not patentable.
The Complete Idiot's Guide: Cashing In On Your Inventions


Sorry for the multiple edits. There is a lot of information to cover on this topic and I am just thinking as I go.

 

[Bignate603]

The best money you will ever spend if you go down this road is $100-200 bucks to sit down with a good IP lawyer for an hour. You may not use them to file the patent but they can walk you through the whole process.

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: chusteczka
Please do not publicly disclose your idea until after your patent application has been turned in.

In the US you have one year from the first public disclosure to file

First thing is to obtain the patent. Then you can contact companies without fearing that they may steal the undeveloped idea from you.

First thing is to file. It can take 3-6 years to actually obtain the patent if its approved.

 

[chusteczka]

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: chusteczka
Please do not publicly disclose your idea until after your patent application has been turned in.

In the US you have one year from the first public disclosure to file

Yes this is true and it is a matter of opinion. I think it is best not to introduce any issues that may need to be overcome later.

EDIT (again):
Here are some possible issues that may result from publicly disclosing his idea before submitting his application.

• The inventor may decide to apply for a patent in another country. Such an application would be invalidated by any public description of the invention since the idea would be publicly disclosed before the foreign patent was applied for. Other countries have different rules and foreign markets are recently challenging the American market for superiority.
• Another issue is that it could take longer than one year before the inventor finally submits an application. This can be due to unfamiliarity with a new and complex system as well as personal issues in life that take a higher priority.
• Another potential issue is that I could read his description and submit a preliminary application faster with my experience than the OP could. Anyone could beat him to his own publicly described patent.

Originally posted by: bsobel

Originally posted by: chusteczka
First thing is to obtain the patent. Then you can contact companies without fearing that they may steal the undeveloped idea from you.

First thing is to file. It can take 3-6 years to actually obtain the patent if its approved.

Yes, my single utility patent took 5 years from the filing date to be approved and issued.

 

[PottedMeat]

My optics prof in college I think said it cost $10K for his patent - dunno if UT took up some of the cost or whatever. Hmm I wonder what it was...

 

[bsobel]

Originally posted by: PottedMeat
My optics prof in college I think said it cost $10K for his patent - dunno if UT took up some of the cost or whatever. Hmm I wonder what it was...

Thats about right. We spend in that ballpark for our corporate filings and my friend who does alot on the side spends about 10k each.

 

[Billb2]

Originally posted by: zixxer
I came up with an idea for a product

You an't patten an "idea", so that's not the way to go.

To sell a product idea to a major marketer is nearly impossible. They won't even talk to you. They may have already tried it, or be working on it and won't mess with getting tangled up in litigation with you.

If you have a product that is already selling (well), you may be able to liscense it.

 

[nanette1985]

Go to the US Patent office website, lots of good information. Also check out Inventors Digest, a good place.

You generally start with a patent search, to see if someone has already patented this. It is not easy to do a patent search if you're not familiar with the system. The category business is way more complicated than you think it is.

If you intend to make money from your patent, don't file it yourself. Find the best lawyer in your category that you can - the one who has won the most patent infringement cases. A patent doesn't automatically protect you, it gives you the right to sue someone else who is infringing. The lawyer will know how to file to give you protection, and will be able to get you through court.

This is of course, not cheap.

If you have a good idea - congrats - the next step is to make a prototype. Draw it or write out a description. Then try to make one that sort of works. Cardboard, legos, whatever you have sitting around. Then make another one that's better. Then make another one that's even better.

There is a lot of work involved, but as far as I'm concerned it's great fun. Best to you!

 

[axelfox]

Originally posted by: Bignate603
The best money you will ever spend if you go down this road is $100-200 bucks to sit down with a good IP lawyer for an hour. You may not use them to file the patent but they can walk you through the whole process.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

 

[zinfamous]

dude.

The fleshlight has already been invented.

 

[bobsmith1492]

I wrote and filed for a provisional patent myself a month or so ago. It cost about 300 bucks; all you're paying a patent lawyer for is patent searches and writing it for you but everything you need to know is at the USPTO website and it's not that tough assuming you know you have a unique product.

Start with the most generalized form of your idea for your description and narrow it down tighter and tighter until it's the best realization you have in mind. The broader the description, the harder it is for someone to squeeze in on a technicality; the tighter the description, the harder it is for someone to directly copy you and get away with it.

That said, there's a guy on here called PatentLawyer or something like that. He probably has some tips.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

My background: I've been doing a lot of the work related to a few patents, specifically the figures/drawings. It's somewhat... tedious. I do this for someone else (accomplished inventor) and my own things as well.

How do people approach investors without worrying about your idea being stolen?

1. Investors have better things to do with their time, don't worry about them stealing it. Present everything about the business except your secret formula, the patent. They will sign an NDA if they want to hear about your secret formula.

2. Estimate 10-15k for the patent.

3. Get yourself a provisional patent and start meeting people to discuss this. The USPTO will file away your provisional into a cabinet and bring it out if it's needed, but leave the utility for later on.

4. Just get going! Too many ideas are left as just ideas, take it beyond that. Find people to work with, try to stick with those you already know. In a small company, the trust is invaluable - when someone takes money from your company, you'll see why it's better to have people you can trust.

5. Decide what you want your role to be - do you want to be an inventor, or an entrepreneur, or can you wear both hats? This might take some experience to know, till then, wear as many hats as possible.

I could go on listing points, but in the end, you need to get going and follow what you believe in. Look for local inventor clubs, they exist and might be of use.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: axelfox

Originally posted by: Bignate603
The best money you will ever spend if you go down this road is $100-200 bucks to sit down with a good IP lawyer for an hour. You may not use them to file the patent but they can walk you through the whole process.

Winner, winner, chicken dinner.

You can usually do a free consultation for 1-2 hours. Expect this to be one of the few times you will get honest answers for everything you ask

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: Billb2

Originally posted by: zixxer
I came up with an idea for a product

You an't patten an "idea", so that's not the way to go.

To sell a product idea to a major marketer is nearly impossible. They won't even talk to you. They may have already tried it, or be working on it and won't mess with getting tangled up in litigation with you.

If you have a product that is already selling (well), you may be able to liscense it.

You will have to gain some traction before someone will license it from you in my experience. You need to pose a threat to them before they'll mess around. I haven't done anything huge that caught a large company's eye right away though, and so maybe I'm not the best to talk about this.

When you see your shipped products "disappearing" and never showing up on retail shelves, you'll know you've become a threat.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

Originally posted by: chusteczka
It is important to judge the marketability of your ideas before going through the work and expense of developing it. Assuming your idea is marketable, then it can be worthwhile to develop it and consider if a patent is an appropriate method to protect your intellectual property. Here is another good book on the subject. The author covers how to profit from ideas even if they are not patentable.
The Complete Idiot's Guide: Cashing In On Your Inventions

I haven't read that specific book, and would recommend reading anything you can, but question everything and do what you think is right. Just because it's in a book doesn't make it the best choice. Read what they have to say, and draw your own conclusions.

Personally, I've tried reading some of these patent books and I haven't found a lot of useful information that was new. If you've written a business plan, most every point they will go over will be discussed in this. It's the usual stuff - make a chart comparing your product against others, compare cost, compare target markets, compare features, blah blah blah, in the competition section. There's obviously more, but my thought is that if you believe in it, just go for it.

Sometimes I've found that the big vision we might see involves a large change in society or the way people do things. Think about the Segway - Dean Kamen had a thought of everyone having one. You'll find that at least initially, your ideas will be diluted down to something that people can accept and get the business some traction.

I'll stop yapping here, but find yourself a good business partner and set firm dates. Get things going, and don't let things like picking an office, getting office supplies, building desks, etc. become tasks. Work out of your current place, parent's basement, whatever.

From what I've seen, at least for the proof of concept, you should find people motivated by your product. When you talk to them, their heart beat should change and be visible like in a poker game when you get pocket aces. If people join it with no motivation because they're fine with how everything is run, you'll run into issues with them when things get tough.

These people you bring on should be so motivated that they don't care if there's money or not at the end of this, they just want to work with you.

I'll stop here for real, but send me a message if you'd like to chat sometime.

Being an entrepreneur, inventor, business owner, etc. isn't easy and so you'll find that a lot of people who have been there and done that will understand what you're going through and be glad to help.

 

[AgaBoogaBoo]

One last post - please, for the love of everything we care about, do things 10 times better than it's being done now. Be revolutionary, not evolutionary. We want to see people invent the refrigerator, not make a better ice box or something.

Yet another last comment - I place no value on the ideas alone... usually, if you have a good idea, there will be others working on it as well. I once heard that if there are 1-2 others working on it, you might be onto it, 4-5 and you're getting a little warmer, but when you have more than 5 competitors with a similar idea, you're getting into something of value.

If you can make something as novel as the zipper, mouse trap, etc., then sure, it's all about the idea, but that goes against the odds

 

[Paperdoc]

An important point many newcomers miss: a patent is granted for something that actually works! You can NOT patent an idea. Even a detailed design is not enough. You need to be able to demonstate with a prototype device that it actually works and does the things you claim.

Of course, as many others here have pointed out, in making the prototype you are likely to discover that the original design does not work as well as you expected, and besides that you thought of some additional improvements. So, often you will go through a few prototype stages before finalizing the design.

Best advice, echoing many who have offered it already: get good professional advice. And realize that a patent really does only one thing: it establishes clearly your claim that you own the design. If anyone tries to copy it, there is NO enforcement system to help you. You have to find out about the infringement and then hire a lawyer to represent you in asserting your right to fees for use, or even to sue the infringer. Enforcement is your reponsibility, at your cost.

 

[chusteczka]

A prototype of the invention has not been required by U.S. Congress or the USPTO since 1880. Nowhere in these guidelines (or anywhere else in the USPTO website) does it mention the need to have a prototype of the invention.

Through seven applications and three issued patents so far, I have not been required to provide a prototype.