Sequester so catastrophic that the DOW hits record high.

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Darwin333

Lifer
Dec 11, 2006
19,946
2,328
126
I am nothing like phokus, He is a partisan hack who supports big government while I support the Constitution

No you don't.

Everyone supports the constitution when it aligns with something that you agree with. Its when a certain activity that you disagree with or dislike yet it is constitutionally protected and despite that disagreement you still support the right of the people to do it, thats when you can say you "support the constitution".
 
Apr 27, 2012
10,086
58
86
No you don't.

Everyone supports the constitution when it aligns with something that you agree with. Its when a certain activity that you disagree with or dislike yet it is constitutionally protected and despite that disagreement you still support the right of the people to do it, thats when you can say you "support the constitution".

There are certain things I dont agree with but the Constitution allows them and I still support the Constitution
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
I am not a 1%, but I am thrilled my 401k is doing very well. I am saddened that dmcowen674 wants his 401k to tank.
 

unokitty

Diamond Member
Jan 5, 2012
3,346
1
0
Another day. Another stock market record.

"President Obama and the Keynesians he relies on for economic guidance have been raising alarms that any decline in federal spending will hurt growth. They plug federal spending into their economic models and, presto, predict that the sequester will reduce growth by 0.6% this year.

These are the same economists who predicted that the $160 billion stimulus in 2008 would prevent a recession, and that the $830 billion stimulus in 2009 would have cut the jobless rate to 5.5% by now. It's still 7.9%. The miracle is that anyone still listens to this crowd six years after their ideas took charge of U.S. economic policy."
--WSJ


If this what the White House calls doomsday, I'm okay with it ...

Uno
 
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Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,327
6,040
126
Robert Reich:

Why There’s a Bull Market for Stocks And Bear Market for Workers

Tuesday, March 5, 2013

Today the Dow Jones Industrial Average rose above 14,270 – completely erasing its 54 percent loss between 2007 and 2009.

The stock market is basically back to where it was in 2000, while corporate earnings have doubled since then.

Yet the real median wage is now 8 percent below what it was in 2000, and unemployment remains sky-high.

Why is the stock market doing so well, while most Americans are doing so poorly? Four reasons:

First, productivity gains. Corporations have been investing in technology rather than their workers. They get tax credits and deductions for such investments; they get no such tax benefits for improving the skills of their employees. As a result, corporations can now do more with fewer people on their payrolls. That means higher profits.

Second, high unemployment itself. Joblessness all but eliminates the bargaining power of most workers – allowing corporations to keep wages low. Public policies that might otherwise reduce unemployment – a new WPA or CCC to hire the long-term unemployed, major investments in the nation’s crumbling infrastructure – have been rejected in favor of austerity economics. This also means higher profits, at least in the short run.

Third, globalization. Big American-based corporations have been expanding and hiring around the globe where markets are growing fastest – even while the U.S. market is lackluster. Tax policies and trade policies have encouraged them.

Finally, the Fed’s easy-money policies. They’ve pushed investors into the stock market because bond yields are so low. On Tuesday, the yield on the 10-year U.S. Treasury note was just 1.9%.

All of this spells widening inequality in America, because the people who invest the most in the stock market have high incomes. Those who rely most on wages have lower incomes.

Corporate profits are claiming a larger share of national income than at any time in 60 years, while the portion of total income going to employees is near its lowest since 1966.

As my colleague Immanuel Saez recently found, all the economic gains between 2009 and 2011 (the last year for which data were available) went to the richest 1 percent of Americans. The bottom 99 percent has continued to lose ground.

And yet the tax code continues to give preference to capital gains over ordinary income — a huge boon to investors.

The sequestration is likely to make all this worse, since it will slow the U.S. economy and keep unemployment higher than otherwise.

It will also hurt the most vulnerable. Some $1.9 billion in low-income rental subsidies are being eliminated, affecting 125,000 people. Cuts to the Department of Agriculture will eliminate rental assistance for another 10,000 low-income rural people. Meanwhile, 100,000 formerly homeless Americans are likely to be removed from their current emergency shelters.

More than 3.8 million Americans receiving long-term unemployment benefits will have their monthly payments reduced by as much as 9.4 percent, and lose an average of $400 in benefits over their period of joblessness.

The Department of Education’s Title I program, which helps schools serving more than a million disadvantaged students, will be cut $715 million, and $400 million will be cut from Head Start, the preschool program for poor children. And major cuts will be made in the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children, which provides nutrition assistance and education.

The health of an economy is not measured by the profits of corporations headquartered within it or the value of its stock market. It depends, rather, on how many of people have jobs and whether those jobs pay decent wages.

By this measure, we are a long way from economic health. Rarely before in American history have public policies so blatantly helped the most fortunate among us, so cruelly harmed the least fortunate, and exposed so many average working Americans to such widespread insecurity.
 

tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,476
6,896
136
What? The DOW is doing great? Damn, it must be Obama's fault! Everything's Obama's fault!
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
What? The DOW is doing great? Damn, it must be Obama's fault! Everything's Obama's fault!


He is partly a cause of the DOW increasing. He is inflexible and demands everyone do as he says. When they do not, he throws a hissy fit and refuses to do anything. In this case, the stock market sees the reduction of spending as a good thing and responded nicely to it. Obama, due to his temper tantrum, did nothing, which is what was needed.

I therefor give him partial credit. The rest of the credit goes to both sides in Congress for doing the same thing as Obama.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Another day. Another stock market record.

"President Obama and the Keynesians he relies on for economic guidance have been raising alarms that any decline in federal spending will hurt growth. They plug federal spending into their economic models and, presto, predict that the sequester will reduce growth by 0.6% this year.

These are the same economists who predicted that the $160 billion stimulus in 2008 would prevent a recession, and that the $830 billion stimulus in 2009 would have cut the jobless rate to 5.5% by now. It's still 7.9%. The miracle is that anyone still listens to this crowd six years after their ideas took charge of U.S. economic policy."
--WSJ

If this what the White House calls doomsday, I'm okay with it ...

Uno

The truth of the matter is the issue being raised with how the markets are responding to these cuts is really a complete misnomer of an argument. The markets have been so far skewed by government and central bank action that using them beacons as to what the economy responds to or will do in response to cuts or tax hikes is going lead to false conclusions in many instances. That isn't to say that these cuts are apocalyptic in nature when in fact they barely even scratch our 16 trillion debt or annual deficit.
 
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DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
Robert Reich:

Why There’s a Bull Market for Stocks And Bear Market for Workers

Tuesday, March 5, 2013

Today the Dow Jones Industrial Average rose above 14,270 – completely erasing its 54 percent loss between 2007 and 2009.

The stock market is basically back to where it was in 2000, while corporate earnings have doubled since then.

Yet the real median wage is now 8 percent below what it was in 2000, and unemployment remains sky-high.

Why is the stock market doing so well, while most Americans are doing so poorly? Four reasons:

First, productivity gains. Corporations have been investing in technology rather than their workers. They get tax credits and deductions for such investments; they get no such tax benefits for improving the skills of their employees. As a result, corporations can now do more with fewer people on their payrolls. That means higher profits.

Second, high unemployment itself. Joblessness all but eliminates the bargaining power of most workers – allowing corporations to keep wages low. Public policies that might otherwise reduce unemployment – a new WPA or CCC to hire the long-term unemployed, major investments in the nation’s crumbling infrastructure – have been rejected in favor of austerity economics. This also means higher profits, at least in the short run.

Third, globalization. Big American-based corporations have been expanding and hiring around the globe where markets are growing fastest – even while the U.S. market is lackluster. Tax policies and trade policies have encouraged them.

Finally, the Fed’s easy-money policies. They’ve pushed investors into the stock market because bond yields are so low. On Tuesday, the yield on the 10-year U.S. Treasury note was just 1.9%.

All of this spells widening inequality in America, because the people who invest the most in the stock market have high incomes. Those who rely most on wages have lower incomes.

Corporate profits are claiming a larger share of national income than at any time in 60 years, while the portion of total income going to employees is near its lowest since 1966.

As my colleague Immanuel Saez recently found, all the economic gains between 2009 and 2011 (the last year for which data were available) went to the richest 1 percent of Americans. The bottom 99 percent has continued to lose ground.

And yet the tax code continues to give preference to capital gains over ordinary income — a huge boon to investors.

The sequestration is likely to make all this worse, since it will slow the U.S. economy and keep unemployment higher than otherwise.

It will also hurt the most vulnerable. Some $1.9 billion in low-income rental subsidies are being eliminated, affecting 125,000 people. Cuts to the Department of Agriculture will eliminate rental assistance for another 10,000 low-income rural people. Meanwhile, 100,000 formerly homeless Americans are likely to be removed from their current emergency shelters.

More than 3.8 million Americans receiving long-term unemployment benefits will have their monthly payments reduced by as much as 9.4 percent, and lose an average of $400 in benefits over their period of joblessness.

The Department of Education’s Title I program, which helps schools serving more than a million disadvantaged students, will be cut $715 million, and $400 million will be cut from Head Start, the preschool program for poor children. And major cuts will be made in the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children, which provides nutrition assistance and education.

The health of an economy is not measured by the profits of corporations headquartered within it or the value of its stock market. It depends, rather, on how many of people have jobs and whether those jobs pay decent wages.

By this measure, we are a long way from economic health. Rarely before in American history have public policies so blatantly helped the most fortunate among us, so cruelly harmed the least fortunate, and exposed so many average working Americans to such widespread insecurity.

LOLOLOL - That easy money being pushed by central banks, guess what it will eventually lead to ? Say it with me..."mal-investments". Boom...bust...transfer of wealth that guys like you love to talk about but only pay lip service to as you cheer lead central banks setting the stage for another bubble and eventually future collapse. Oh and its kind of funny hearing Robert Riech decry our current economic situation and essentially stating that "We aren't ready for ANY CUTS PERIOD because we haven't recovered yet".
 
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tweaker2

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,476
6,896
136
He is partly a cause of the DOW increasing. He is inflexible and demands everyone do as he says. When they do not, he throws a hissy fit and refuses to do anything. In this case, the stock market sees the reduction of spending as a good thing and responded nicely to it. Obama, due to his temper tantrum, did nothing, which is what was needed.

I therefor give him partial credit. The rest of the credit goes to both sides in Congress for doing the same thing as Obama.

I like your logic. It seems both sides have calmed down some as the dinner Obama treated the Repub leaders to seems to have had some positive effect, in the sense that everybody's noses got bloodied badly from the fight, they acknowledged as such and hopefully are now being a little more grown up about finding common ground.
 

Screech

Golden Member
Oct 20, 2004
1,202
6
81
Something in 2013 is proving that something in 1981 doesn't work? Well that only took 32 years.

To be fair, anyone with any sense of economics knew it was garbage to begin with. This is just more evidence of that.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
The stock market hitting a high right now is really the ultimate proof that trickle-down theory doesn't work.

No its proof that government cannot restore sanity to markets by interfering with them with the aide of central banks. Just as the stock market climbing to a new high the day before the bubble popped was proof that stock markets are not good indicators of the markets stability when they have been warped and distorted by a easy credit policy from the Federal Reserve.
 
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cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
I like your logic. It seems both sides have calmed down some as the dinner Obama treated the Repub leaders to seems to have had some positive effect, in the sense that everybody's noses got bloodied badly from the fight, they acknowledged as such and hopefully are now being a little more grown up about finding common ground.


They have to figure out how to do it without any blatant tax increases on anyone - the repubs cannot afford to keep allowing Obama to raise taxes over and over and over and over again. Obama already raised them on the poor, the middle class, and the rich (though he did hit the rich multiple times).

Closing tax loopholes can be called tax reform (which it is) and not a tax increase (though those whose taxes go up would beg to differ - I personally see closing loopholes as removing legal cheating instead), so that is the only place repubs can give anything on. Obama and the dems will have to give massive cuts in spending (since that is the only real way to reduce the deficit).

The best way to reduce the deficit is to reduce spending while changing our tax system to a consumption based tax, such as The Fair Tax.
 

DucatiMonster696

Diamond Member
Aug 13, 2009
4,269
1
71
They have to figure out how to do it without any blatant tax increases on anyone - the repubs cannot afford to keep allowing Obama to raise taxes over and over and over and over again. Obama already raised them on the poor, the middle class, and the rich (though he did hit the rich multiple times).

Closing tax loopholes can be called tax reform (which it is) and not a tax increase (though those whose taxes go up would beg to differ - I personally see closing loopholes as removing legal cheating instead), so that is the only place repubs can give anything on. Obama and the dems will have to give massive cuts in spending (since that is the only real way to reduce the deficit).

The best way to reduce the deficit is to reduce spending while changing our tax system to a consumption based tax, such as The Fair Tax.

Unfortunately the best stealth tax increase on everyone is inflation as it allows government to run up its debt at the expense of its currency and citizens. Additionally inflation benefits those with capital assets best positioned to generate continual income and that certainly isn't the poor, working poor, middle-class, etc. We are going to have to change a lot more than our tax code to be able to implement a consumption tax, i.e. our banking system and policies toward our currency.
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
Robert Reich:

Why There’s a Bull Market for Stocks And Bear Market for Workers

Tuesday, March 5, 2013

Today the Dow Jones Industrial Average rose above 14,270 – completely erasing its 54 percent loss between 2007 and 2009.

The stock market is basically back to where it was in 2000, while corporate earnings have doubled since then.

Yet the real median wage is now 8 percent below what it was in 2000, and unemployment remains sky-high.

Why is the stock market doing so well, while most Americans are doing so poorly? Four reasons:

First, productivity gains. Corporations have been investing in technology rather than their workers. They get tax credits and deductions for such investments; they get no such tax benefits for improving the skills of their employees. As a result, corporations can now do more with fewer people on their payrolls. That means higher profits.

Second, high unemployment itself. Joblessness all but eliminates the bargaining power of most workers – allowing corporations to keep wages low. Public policies that might otherwise reduce unemployment – a new WPA or CCC to hire the long-term unemployed, major investments in the nation’s crumbling infrastructure – have been rejected in favor of austerity economics. This also means higher profits, at least in the short run.

Third, globalization. Big American-based corporations have been expanding and hiring around the globe where markets are growing fastest – even while the U.S. market is lackluster. Tax policies and trade policies have encouraged them.

Finally, the Fed’s easy-money policies. They’ve pushed investors into the stock market because bond yields are so low. On Tuesday, the yield on the 10-year U.S. Treasury note was just 1.9%.

All of this spells widening inequality in America, because the people who invest the most in the stock market have high incomes. Those who rely most on wages have lower incomes.

Corporate profits are claiming a larger share of national income than at any time in 60 years, while the portion of total income going to employees is near its lowest since 1966.

As my colleague Immanuel Saez recently found, all the economic gains between 2009 and 2011 (the last year for which data were available) went to the richest 1 percent of Americans. The bottom 99 percent has continued to lose ground.

And yet the tax code continues to give preference to capital gains over ordinary income — a huge boon to investors.

The sequestration is likely to make all this worse, since it will slow the U.S. economy and keep unemployment higher than otherwise.

It will also hurt the most vulnerable. Some $1.9 billion in low-income rental subsidies are being eliminated, affecting 125,000 people. Cuts to the Department of Agriculture will eliminate rental assistance for another 10,000 low-income rural people. Meanwhile, 100,000 formerly homeless Americans are likely to be removed from their current emergency shelters.

More than 3.8 million Americans receiving long-term unemployment benefits will have their monthly payments reduced by as much as 9.4 percent, and lose an average of $400 in benefits over their period of joblessness.

The Department of Education’s Title I program, which helps schools serving more than a million disadvantaged students, will be cut $715 million, and $400 million will be cut from Head Start, the preschool program for poor children. And major cuts will be made in the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children, which provides nutrition assistance and education.

The health of an economy is not measured by the profits of corporations headquartered within it or the value of its stock market. It depends, rather, on how many of people have jobs and whether those jobs pay decent wages.

By this measure, we are a long way from economic health. Rarely before in American history have public policies so blatantly helped the most fortunate among us, so cruelly harmed the least fortunate, and exposed so many average working Americans to such widespread insecurity.

Robert Reich wants to toss out capitalism and replace it with ..........wait for it..............you guessed it, Socialism.

Let's not forget the last time you quoted the hater of capitalism.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2244200&highlight=robert+reich

Maybe you can wait another 8 months and bring up another doozie.
 

OverVolt

Lifer
Aug 31, 2002
14,278
89
91
Geez chill. The stock market hasn't indicated how things are going on mainstreet for a long time. They are essentially two separate economies.
 

Moonbeam

Elite Member
Nov 24, 1999
72,327
6,040
126
Robert Reich wants to toss out capitalism and replace it with ..........wait for it..............you guessed it, Socialism.

Let's not forget the last time you quoted the hater of capitalism.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2244200&highlight=robert+reich

Maybe you can wait another 8 months and bring up another doozie.

Actually all that happened was that some ignoramus on P&N couldn't figure out why the Dow was up if the sequester is a disaster. I simply Googled why is the Dow up when the average American suffers and I got the Reich piece for an answer. I thought it made interesting points all of which you are too feeble minded to answer. You are a pathetic imbecile, an idiot, and brain dead. But you have no shame or self insight so it doesn't bother you. Every time you open your mouth you punch yourself in the face.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally Posted by Matt1970
Robert Reich wants to toss out capitalism and replace it with ..........wait for it..............you guessed it, Socialism.

Let's not forget the last time you quoted the hater of capitalism.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthre...t=robert+reich

Maybe you can wait another 8 months and bring up another doozie.



Actually all that happened was that some ignoramus on P&N couldn't figure out why the Dow was up if the sequester is a disaster. I simply Googled why is the Dow up when the average American suffers and I got the Reich piece for an answer.

I thought it made interesting points all of which you are too feeble minded to answer. You are a pathetic imbecile, an idiot, and brain dead. But you have no shame or self insight so it doesn't bother you. Every time you open your mouth you punch yourself in the face.

That Bolded is sig worthy material right there